Double Standard: Gender Reassignment Surgeries for Minors

[ImsaliA]

Yeah. Calling children extensions of their parents or following their dreams? Well it fucks them up in the long term.

Also, some people are just cruel enough to be that level of shit to their children.

Precisely, one should not live life through children.
Simple, plain.
Oh and some people are just bad parents.

[Lamoni]

skibidi bean
(i spam poltical forums just so yall can shut it)

*** Warning for Spam ***

[Slembana]

It is just communicating my politics and viewpoint on this issue. Many people arguably do conclude that someone in their own family has failed them, if they transitioned and you know you didn't raise them like that or don't want to entertain LGBT lifestyle or characteristics.

Your child doesn’t have to be a duplicate of you, and they don’t even have to be similar to you. Your child is not a part of you. And you shouldn’t try and shape them into whatever you consider ideal. Because shaping a kid into what you want will not work. For a person is not a cube of clay you can mold into whatever you want, for people will inevitably mold themselves into something different, no matter how hard you try to mold them into what you consider ideal. That is what humans are. For molding people into what you want will not make the shape of person you desire, for people are not clay. Even you cannot mold your child. Because children mold themselves.

Exactly. Too many parents view their children as property, when in fact a child is a human being and a person.

[Lollipop Torture Force]

It is just communicating my politics and viewpoint on this issue. Many people arguably do conclude that someone in their own family has failed them, if they transitioned and you know you didn't raise them like that or don't want to entertain LGBT lifestyle or characteristics.

Your child doesn’t have to be a duplicate of you, and they don’t even have to be similar to you. Your child is not a part of you. And you shouldn’t try and shape them into whatever you consider ideal. Because shaping a kid into what you want will not work. For a person is not a cube of clay you can mold into whatever you want, for people will inevitably mold themselves into something different, no matter how hard you try to mold them into what you consider ideal. That is what humans are. For molding people into what you want will not make the shape of person you desire, for people are not clay. Even you cannot mold your child. Because children mold themselves.

With respect to the bolded, how then should you guide your child away from racist values? If you do not try to instill values you see as important are you to simply watch as they become something hateful?

[The Undemocratic Republic of Space Jesus]

Your child doesn’t have to be a duplicate of you, and they don’t even have to be similar to you. Your child is not a part of you. And you shouldn’t try and shape them into whatever you consider ideal. Because shaping a kid into what you want will not work. For a person is not a cube of clay you can mold into whatever you want, for people will inevitably mold themselves into something different, no matter how hard you try to mold them into what you consider ideal. That is what humans are. For molding people into what you want will not make the shape of person you desire, for people are not clay. Even you cannot mold your child. Because children mold themselves.

With respect to the bolded, how then should you guide your child away from racist values? If you do not try to instill values you see as important are you to simply watch as they become something hateful?

Shaping your child to not be transgender and shaping your child to not be racist are two very different things. Only one is a choice and only one is harmful.

[Lollipop Torture Force]

With respect to the bolded, how then should you guide your child away from racist values? If you do not try to instill values you see as important are you to simply watch as they become something hateful?

Shaping your child to not be transgender and shaping your child to not be racist are two very different things. Only one is a choice and only one is harmful.

"And you shouldn’t try and shape them into whatever you consider ideal."

I will point again to the statement I was questioning. The statement clearly goes beyond transgenderism to discuss child molding in general as did my response. That being said being transgender is not limited to one set of behavior. As behavior is often determined or guided by ones values it falls under the responsibility of the parents when it comes to how the individual acts.

[The Undemocratic Republic of Space Jesus]

Shaping your child to not be transgender and shaping your child to not be racist are two very different things. Only one is a choice and only one is harmful.

"And you shouldn’t try and shape them into whatever you consider ideal."

I will point again to the statement I was questioning. The statement clearly goes beyond transgenderism to discuss child molding in general as did my response. That being said being transgender is not limited to one set of behavior. As behavior is often determined or guided by ones values it falls under the responsibility of the parents when it comes to how the individual acts.

'Not being racist' is pretty universally considered ideal. Comparing a child being trans to a child being racist is not in good faith.

Racism isn't an identity; it's a harmful and factually incorrect belief. Is explaining to your child why racism is so bad really comparable to trying to 'cure' trans kids?

[Lollipop Torture Force]

"And you shouldn’t try and shape them into whatever you consider ideal."

I will point again to the statement I was questioning. The statement clearly goes beyond transgenderism to discuss child molding in general as did my response. That being said being transgender is not limited to one set of behavior. As behavior is often determined or guided by ones values it falls under the responsibility of the parents when it comes to how the individual acts.

'Not being racist' is pretty universally considered ideal. Comparing a child being trans to a child being racist is not in good faith.

I disagree entirely. Both come with a variety of behaviors that are a parent's responsibility to guide.

Racism isn't an identity; it's a harmful and factually incorrect belief. Is explaining to your child why racism is so bad really comparable to trying to 'cure' trans kids?

Racist views do form components and actions that define someone's identity. Often superseding and being the dominant facet of a persons identity when revealed publicly. As such guiding one's children away from negative behaviors remains the parents responsibility.

[The Undemocratic Republic of Space Jesus]

'Not being racist' is pretty universally considered ideal. Comparing a child being trans to a child being racist is not in good faith.

I disagree entirely. Both come with a variety of behaviors that are a parent's responsibility to guide.

Racism isn't an identity; it's a harmful and factually incorrect belief. Is explaining to your child why racism is so bad really comparable to trying to 'cure' trans kids?

Racist views do form components and actions that define someone's identity. Often superseding and being the dominant facet of a persons identity when revealed publicly. As such guiding one's children away from negative behaviors remains the parents responsibility.

Being trans is not a choice and does not come with inherent behaviors. No matter how much you try, you cannot mold a trans child into a cis one. It's not like trans people are hurting anyone.
Comparatively, being racist is a choice and is a learned, harmful behavior. It is the responsibility of the parent to prevent their child from, y'know, becoming a massive racist.

You don't get to decide what your child's favorite color is, just as you don't get to decide if they are transgender. That is their identity and theirs only.

[Lollipop Torture Force]

I disagree entirely. Both come with a variety of behaviors that are a parent's responsibility to guide.


Racist views do form components and actions that define someone's identity. Often superseding and being the dominant facet of a persons identity when revealed publicly. As such guiding one's children away from negative behaviors remains the parents responsibility.

Being trans is not a choice and does not come with inherent behaviors.

I know. thats why I said "that being said being transgender is not limited to one set of behavior."

No matter how much you try, you cannot mold a trans child into a cis one. It's not like trans people are hurting anyone.

I'm actually not sure what I said that you are replying to here. Seems like a stock answer unrelated to my post.

Comparatively, being racist is a choice and is a learned, harmful behavior. It is the responsibility of the parent to prevent their child from, y'know, becoming a massive racist.

Behaviors are largely learned. Negative behaviors and actions can be curbed by positive values. One can be immoral as a trans person and a not trans person as immorality is often related to behavior and the associated values instilled by the parents and community. Being trans does not negate community standards and morality.

[The Undemocratic Republic of Space Jesus]

Being trans is not a choice and does not come with inherent behaviors.

I know. thats why I said "that being said being transgender is not limited to one set of behavior."

No matter how much you try, you cannot mold a trans child into a cis one. It's not like trans people are hurting anyone.

I'm actually not sure what I said that you are replying to here. Seems like a stock answer unrelated to my post.

Comparatively, being racist is a choice and is a learned, harmful behavior. It is the responsibility of the parent to prevent their child from, y'know, becoming a massive racist.

Behaviors are largely learned. Negative behaviors and actions can be curbed by positive values. One can be immoral as a trans person and a not trans person as immorality is often related to behavior and the associated values instilled by the parents and community. Being trans does not negate community standards and morality.

You compared teaching your child not to be racist with trying to mold your child to be trans. Your response to Tevetara missed the point entirely.

Teaching your child math is not molding, and neither is guiding them away from racism.
Tevetara's post was referring to molding the child's identity- trying to control how they identify, which is not comparable to racism in the slightest.

[Lollipop Torture Force]

I know. thats why I said "that being said being transgender is not limited to one set of behavior."

I'm actually not sure what I said that you are replying to here. Seems like a stock answer unrelated to my post.


Behaviors are largely learned. Negative behaviors and actions can be curbed by positive values. One can be immoral as a trans person and a not trans person as immorality is often related to behavior and the associated values instilled by the parents and community. Being trans does not negate community standards and morality.

You compared teaching your child not to be racist with trying to mold your child to be trans. Your response to Tevetara missed the point entirely.

Teaching your child math is not molding, and neither is guiding them away from racism.
Tevetara's post was referring to molding the child's identity- trying to control how they identify, which is not comparable to racism in the slightest.

Do behaviors and morality not impact a person's identity? Or is Identity one dimensional?

Education is absolutely molding your child for the future.

[The Undemocratic Republic of Space Jesus]

You compared teaching your child not to be racist with trying to mold your child to be trans. Your response to Tevetara missed the point entirely.

Teaching your child math is not molding, and neither is guiding them away from racism.
Tevetara's post was referring to molding the child's identity- trying to control how they identify, which is not comparable to racism in the slightest.

Do behaviors and morality not impact a person's identity? Or is Identity one dimensional?

Education is absolutely molding your child for the future.

Again, your entire argument is missing the point and just nitpicking the wording. Trying to mold your child to be cis is wrong because you cannot choose to be trans and being trans is ultimately harmless. Guiding your child away from racism is moral because racism is a harmful and factually incorrect learned behavior.

[Lollipop Torture Force]

Do behaviors and morality not impact a person's identity? Or is Identity one dimensional?

Education is absolutely molding your child for the future.

Again, your entire argument is missing the point and just nitpicking the wording. Trying to mold your child to be cis is wrong because you cannot choose to be trans and being trans is ultimately harmless. Guiding your child away from racism is moral because racism is a harmful and factually incorrect learned behavior.

That wasn't the statement tez gave. I will provide it below for reference of what you are contradicting me on.

.... Your child is not a part of you. And you shouldn’t try and shape them into whatever you consider ideal.....

I have been talking about behavior and morality being a parents responsibility. As we both agree being trans does not come with one set expected line of behavior I do not understand what you think you are defining as moldable identity or not. If you are trans no matter how you present or act in society then it is a held constant no matter what values or behavior you are instilled with and follow.

[The Undemocratic Republic of Space Jesus]

Again, your entire argument is missing the point and just nitpicking the wording. Trying to mold your child to be cis is wrong because you cannot choose to be trans and being trans is ultimately harmless. Guiding your child away from racism is moral because racism is a harmful and factually incorrect learned behavior.

That wasn't the statement tez gave. I will provide it below for reference of what you are contradicting me on.

.... Your child is not a part of you. And you shouldn’t try and shape them into whatever you consider ideal.....

I have been talking about behavior and morality being a parents responsibility. As we both agree being trans does not come with one set expected line of behavior I do not understand what you think you are defining as moldable identity or not. If you are trans no matter how you present or act in society then it is a held constant no matter what values or behavior you are instilled with and follow.

Somehow, I get the idea that 'don't teach your kids that racism is bad' was not what Tevetara was actually saying.
I'm not quite sure what you're arguing here, because again, 'curing' trans kids and explaining why racism is bad are not comparable in the slightest.
All you're doing here is nitpicking the wording to create a strawman argument.

[Lollipop Torture Force]

That wasn't the statement tez gave. I will provide it below for reference of what you are contradicting me on.



I have been talking about behavior and morality being a parents responsibility. As we both agree being trans does not come with one set expected line of behavior I do not understand what you think you are defining as moldable identity or not. If you are trans no matter how you present or act in society then it is a held constant no matter what values or behavior you are instilled with and follow.

Somehow, I get the idea that 'don't teach your kids that racism is bad' was not what Tevetara was actually saying.
I'm not quite sure what you're arguing here, because again, 'curing' trans kids and explaining why racism is bad are not comparable in the slightest.
All you're doing here is nitpicking the wording to create a strawman argument.

Tez clearly stated that you should not mold your child's identity which is counter to any parents responsibility of instilling values and behaviors. I am saying that taking such a broad line is simply insanely irresponsible as a community standard. If you are going to defend the line rather than claim something else was meant than fine, try it. If you are going to assume what was meant fits within your prescribed morals i am here to say your morals are not universal and stating them the way they were is corrosive to society.

[The Undemocratic Republic of Space Jesus]

Somehow, I get the idea that 'don't teach your kids that racism is bad' was not what Tevetara was actually saying.
I'm not quite sure what you're arguing here, because again, 'curing' trans kids and explaining why racism is bad are not comparable in the slightest.
All you're doing here is nitpicking the wording to create a strawman argument.

Tez clearly stated that you should not mold your child's identity which is counter to any parents responsibility of instilling values and behaviors. I am saying that taking such a broad line is simply insanely irresponsible as a community standard. If you are going to defend the line rather than claim something else was meant than fine, try it. If you are going to assume what was meant fits within your prescribed morals i am here to say your morals are not universal and stating them the way they were is corrosive to society.

All you're doing here is taking a line out of context and nitpicking the phrasing.

[The Anti-Delegate]

Tez clearly stated that you should not mold your child's identity which is counter to any parents responsibility of instilling values and behaviors. I am saying that taking such a broad line is simply insanely irresponsible as a community standard. If you are going to defend the line rather than claim something else was meant than fine, try it. If you are going to assume what was meant fits within your prescribed morals i am here to say your morals are not universal and stating them the way they were is corrosive to society.

All you're doing here is taking a line out of context and nitpicking the phrasing.

that's their whole thing

[Lollipop Torture Force]

Tez clearly stated that you should not mold your child's identity which is counter to any parents responsibility of instilling values and behaviors. I am saying that taking such a broad line is simply insanely irresponsible as a community standard. If you are going to defend the line rather than claim something else was meant than fine, try it. If you are going to assume what was meant fits within your prescribed morals i am here to say your morals are not universal and stating them the way they were is corrosive to society.

All you're doing here is taking a line out of context and nitpicking the phrasing.

1. A Does being trans have a set set of expectations or B is it a constant truth for a person?
2. If B how is a trans person automatically right in beliefs and behavior and separate from learned values and taught behaviors as is most of society?
3. I maintain it is a parents job to teach their children values and instill guidance leading to good behavior. This is not negated if the child is trans as suggested. It is still the parents responsibility. Suggesting that a parent cannot mold their child through taught values and behavior if they are trans is neither out of context nor a sane way to suggest society progress.

[The Undemocratic Republic of Space Jesus]

All you're doing here is taking a line out of context and nitpicking the phrasing.

1. A Does being trans have a set set of expectations or B is it a constant truth for a person?
2. If B how is a trans person automatically right in beliefs and behavior and separate from learned values and taught behaviors as is most of society?
3. I maintain it is a parents job to teach their children values and instill guidance leading to good behavior. This is not negated if the child is trans as suggested. It is still the parents responsibility. Suggesting that a parent cannot mold their child through taught values and behavior if they are trans is neither out of context nor a sane way to suggest society progress.

1. Being trans does have a set of expectations, but they are not requirements.
2. I never said anything even remotely like that.
3. I never suggested anything like that.
Are we reading the same thread here?

[The X-8 Research Center]

Why yes, gender reassignment surgeries are cures for the trans folk, I am sceptical to say if its okay to make someone little do it. Sure, it could be allowed somewhere between the quite older teen ages (age>15 or 16), but in my opinion its kinda weird making someone, whose age isn't even over the double digits to have such surgeries.

[The Anti-Delegate]

Why yes, gender reassignment surgeries are cures for the trans folk, I am sceptical to say if its okay to make someone little do it. Sure, it could be allowed somewhere between the quite older teen ages (age>15 or 16), but in my opinion its kinda weird making someone, whose age isn't even over the double digits to have such surgeries.

there arent many cases of that, it's extremely rare

[The Anti-Delegate]

anyways the right-wing play here is to distract us by saying all this nonsense about minors getting sex reassignments while also creating and passing laws that ban sex reassignments for EVERYONE, regardless of age

[Necroghastia]

anyways the right-wing play here is to distract us by saying all this nonsense about minors getting sex reassignments while also creating and passing laws that ban sex reassignments for EVERYONE, regardless of age

'Cept intersex kids, of course. Gotta keep that binary intact!

[M4A1]

Being trans is not a choice and does not come with inherent behaviors. No matter how much you try, you cannot mold a trans child into a cis one. It's not like trans people are hurting anyone.
Comparatively, being racist is a choice and is a learned, harmful behavior. It is the responsibility of the parent to prevent their child from, y'know, becoming a massive racist.

You don't get to decide what your child's favorite color is, just as you don't get to decide if they are transgender. That is their identity and theirs only.

This presumes that someone can be separate from their parents or their community at large in self-determination. No, even our very understanding of what it means to be trans as trans people here in the west is profoundly impacted by our upbringings and our culture. Rather than it being a responsibility of the parent to not interfere with their child (which is impossible and would include guiding children away from things like racism), it is more appropriate to say that it is a responsibility of the parent to give due deference to their child on unchangeable matters of self-fulfillment like transitioning and to not cling to certain preconceptions of how a child ought to be to the extent that it causes familial division. Parents still have a keen interest in the well-being of their children and of their families at large, however, and their opinions on the matter most certainly do count for a lot even if it shouldn't be to the extent that it determines whether their child transitions or not. As trans people, we'd do well to cut the "you don't get to have issues with my transition" attitude.