Should teenagers be allowed to get gender affirming surgery?

[Russian Collation]

I am against such operations for anyone but I feel like since this is a free society you should be able to do it since it dose not effect me or other people in any way.

[Saligvolklant]

... why is it that cis kids/teenagers can get prescribed puberty blockers no problem in case of an early onset, but when it comes to trans people, they're denied it due to it being "dangerous" (even if puberty blockers are fully reversible)?

Let me elaborate on this. Transgender gender-affirming or thereupon related services or research have existed since 1919.

Insulin was introduced into the medical world in 1922.

Pap smears, detecting cervical cancer, was finalized in 1945.

Tattoo removal was discovered in 1988.

Aspirin was introduced in 1997.

If you think HRT is experimental, I better not see you giving your kid a Tylenol.

[Krangkor]

No. I am not sure that any doctor should do this because it seems to violate the rule to "do no harm". However, if these surgeries are to be permitted, then they should be only permitted for adults.

There are people who really want amputations of healthy limbs. I do not think that doctors should be permitted to perform amputations of healthy limbs either.

[Krangkor]

... why is it that cis kids/teenagers can get prescribed puberty blockers no problem in case of an early onset, but when it comes to trans people, they're denied it due to it being "dangerous" (even if puberty blockers are fully reversible)?

Let me elaborate on this. Transgender gender-affirming or thereupon related services or research have existed since 1919.

Insulin was introduced into the medical world in 1922.

Pap smears, detecting cervical cancer, was finalized in 1945.

Tattoo removal was discovered in 1988.

Aspirin was introduced in 1997.

We have only had aspirin since 1997? What?

[Nilokeras]

of course.

where I'm from, a minor's doctor has full and complete determination about whether or not a given minor understands the risks of a given course of treatment and can therefore consent to their treatment. it's a matter between a patient and their medical team, full stop. doctors cannot even disclose medical records or history to parents without the consent of the patient.

this is an important safeguarding measure as well. the absolute airtight doctor-patient confidentiality and medical autonomy minors enjoy allows minors to be protected from abusive family members or community members, as evidence of abuse can be disclosed to doctors and treated/reported safely with the absolute assurance that they will be protected from their abusers.

it's the important flipside to this moral panic about minors' rights. frankly, just about any abdication of those rights to parents puts power in the hands of abusers.

[Fornholm]

Let me elaborate on this. Transgender gender-affirming or thereupon related services or research have existed since 1919.

Insulin was introduced into the medical world in 1922.

Pap smears, detecting cervical cancer, was finalized in 1945.

Tattoo removal was discovered in 1988.

Aspirin was introduced in 1997.

We have only had aspirin since 1997? What?

Woops! I think he meant 1897. Antibiotic resistance is a problem to be tackled with anyway, since administering too much of that has resulted in unruly resistant bacterias. After all, surgeries are not always having a 100% success rate even with most things possible considered today, but it doesn't mean it cannot succeed.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It’s not an easy yes/no question. It’s a depends. When it comes to performing a surgery of that kind on a minor and with all its implications, there must be a solid medically compelling reason to do it. Including risk of life and mental damage. Otherwise, imo, it’s best to leave such decisions to the person when they achieve majority of age.

[Neo-Hermitius]

yes because trans kids deserve to feel comfortable in their skin. I don't get how this is controversial. also the detransition rate Is 11 percent for trans women and like 4% for trans men so its better to let kids transition then let them die

[Neo-Hermitius]

-snip-

my brother in Christ, the damn website ur sourcing from is anti-trans kids. its obvious they would say the detransition rate is higher then it is

also, ur other one is from 2018. almost 7 years ago

[Ifreann]

https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-research-on-desistance-in-transgender-youth

Very funny to include as evidence for your claim a source that contradicts it. Top job to the account obviously created in order to make this post.

[HISPIDA]

yes.

[Grand Minnesota]

Absolutely not.

[Ifreann]

-snip-

my brother in Christ, the damn website ur sourcing from is anti-trans kids. its obvious they would say the detransition rate is higher then it is

also, ur other one is from 2018. almost 7 years ago

That source from 7 years ago also says that the study on which these claims are based is extremely flawed.

[Ifreann]

Very funny to include as evidence for your claim a source that contradicts it. Top job to the account obviously created in order to make this post.

They don’t have a study that supports their idea; it’s just an opinion.

If this information is so unreliable then why did you cite it as evidence for your claims?

[Untecna]

Bullshit continues to fool the naive bigot.

[HISPIDA]

They don’t have a study that supports their idea; it’s just an opinion.

If this information is so unreliable then why did you cite it as evidence for your claims?

do you honestly expect that transphobes would make points in good faith?

[Nilokeras]

hello again, Vespera Magna. I see you plugged 'give me an argument with sources against allowing teenagers to undergo gender-affirming surgery' into ChatGPT and copied the results.

like come on dude. did you really think that creating a brand new puppet 21 minutes ago, and having your first post be very specifically formatted LLM cludge wouldn't give you away?

[Fjolmidlum]

*snip*

Alright. Citing Transgender Trend is bad practice. It, for example, holds to the patently false Cass Review. Looking at the article you linked from them, the James Cantor review it cites focuses on 10 studies of exceedingly small sample size and low quality, and they pass this off as if it were conclusive. These people are not serious about science; they are serious about their narrative. The KQED article you linked found such a high rate of desistance in pre-pubescent children, which is a known phenomenon and unrelated to desistance in transgender teens, which is rare. Your claim that 16,000 to 32,000 transgender teenagers got and regretted gender affirming surgeries is, in no mincing of words, complete horse shit. Why? Because there haven't even been 16,000 transgender teens who have gotten gender affirming surgeries in the first place. It's also worth noting that a 1-2% regret rate (which isn't correct, the actual rate is less than 1%) is still far lower than almost any other surgery to boot. Unfortunately, I can't criticize your other study as it's in dutch, which I can't read. However, I am sure any refutation of it can be found in this post.

EDIT: Also, the obvious, if 32,000 transgender teens regretted getting gender affirming surgery and they are 2% of all teens who have gotten gender affirming surgery then that means 1.6 million teens have gotten gender affirming surgery. This can't be true, unless almost every single transgender person in the US got gender affirming surgery as a teen. Total nonsense.

[Ifreann]

If this information is so unreliable then why did you cite it as evidence for your claims?

do you honestly expect that transphobes would make points in good faith?

Of course not, but it's especially clownish for one to be all "Look at this study that proves I'm right!" and link to some local news article explaining that the one study they're talking about is worthless.

[HISPIDA]

If this information is so unreliable then why did you cite it as evidence for your claims?

Because the big claim is repeated by them as well:

"For decades, follow-up studies of transgender kids have shown that a substantial majority—anywhere from 65 to 94 percent—eventually ceased to identify as transgender."

I'll add:

"If most kids will eventually cease to be transgender, some clinicians have reasoned, isn’t it more prudent to take the least disruptive path in coping with a child's gender dysphoria?"

"Some" clinicians. Do you understand the concept of "some"? And once more, those "some" have no study at all. It’s just their opinion. Probably ideologically or politically motivated.

this is the problem with using AI to make points for you. it will contradict itself. take notes, kids. don't use AI.

[Cyptopir]

do you honestly expect that transphobes would make points in good faith?

Good God, anyone who doesn’t support your idea is transphobic?

Read the piece again carefully; it doesn’t show anywhere that I would be transphobic. On the contrary.

I don't believe arguing against transgender people's wellbeing is trans supporting

[Mercov]

this is the problem with using AI to make points for you. it will contradict itself. take notes, kids. don't use AI.

I didn't use AI. But I suggest you start doing it a bit more. Just to get out of your echo chamber.

"I didn't use AI, but if I did, it would be good"

[Ifreann]

If this information is so unreliable then why did you cite it as evidence for your claims?

Because the big claim is repeated by them as well:

"For decades, follow-up studies of transgender kids have shown that a substantial majority—anywhere from 65 to 94 percent—eventually ceased to identify as transgender."

I'll add:

"If most kids will eventually cease to be transgender, some clinicians have reasoned, isn’t it more prudent to take the least disruptive path in coping with a child's gender dysphoria?"

"Some" clinicians. Do you understand the concept of "some"? And once more, those "some" have no study at all. It’s just their opinion. Probably ideologically or politically motivated.

My sibling in Satan, the whole point of the article is to criticise the belief that so many children desist from identifying as trans. They raised these claims in order to contradict them. This is not evidence that supports your claims. You really should have read further than the second paragraph before now.

[Untecna]

It's always an echo chamber with us. Never once could it be that Vespera is wrong. No, never, that's preposterous!

[USHALLNOTPASS]

Threads like these make me yearn for a technocracy. Please save us from these gweilou, comrade xi.