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Is armed resistance ever justified?

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Is it ever justified to engage in armed resistance

No, never. One must be quiet and turn the other cheek
17
8%
Yes, to defend the opressed it is justified
185
92%
 
Total votes : 202

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Fjolmidlum
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Postby Fjolmidlum » Mon Mar 03, 2025 2:03 pm

Pale Dawn wrote:I am not suggesting that I am indifferent or that it is fine to soil the soul by one's actions. Only that as a course of actions within ones life it is not always avoidable. Regarding repercussions I would still say you are oversimplifying. We are always responsible for our actions and for our choice not to act. If you have the capacity to protect those in your charge and you choose not to that is your right, you can find justification for it, but it is not blameless as you still carry the weight of the inaction. Our responsibilities are many and often conflicting. We can say that ones primary and first responsibility is in to God, but within the secular there is no clear delineation of priority and we must sort it ourselves. Your death through non violence is only blameless in so far as you do not owe any others an aspect of your life. If your place in life is to provide for those around you and you allow another to make the final choice of rather you live or die, you surrendered that responsibility and would be held to blame for the lack of provision. If you allow those under your charge to come to harm or death through inaction and a commitment to nonviolence then you are guilty of breaking their trust. To claim that these obligations hold no weight on your soul sounds like an empty existence. To say that trust does not physically exist and therefore of no moral weight when presented with choices of action is to proceed into emptiness and to devoid yourself also of love for there can be no love if there is no trust. If you forego love and trust in life for the sake of nonviolence that is a hollow victory.

I do agree that one is culpable just as much for action as inaction, so long as either is a result of volition/intent, but this is very context-dependent. To reiterate, the conception of relationships of trust as obligations isn't true on some real level. At some point trust is broken, almost always. This isn't even necessarily immoral, because the trust involved in these relationships exists only to the extent that each participate ascribes it as existing. To lose love for a romantic partner and to leave them, for example, is often to break a faith and trust that they had that the relationship would not end, but this is not a blameworthy action. Trust is only binding to the extent that one vows to do one thing or another, and to that end one shouldn't make promises they cannot or should not be keeping. and they should not justify other immorality to keep from the immorality of having broken a vow. Perhaps recognizing this does create a "hollow victory," to entertain that idea, but that is not ultimately the goal. The goal of life, in my eyes, is not winning but in ending suffering. To that end, the "hollow victory" is a mere byproduct to that path.

Beyond that, as before, in seeking non-violence one seeks to end the cycle of violence and creates conditions conducive to violence's end. One can be ultimately satisfied in knowing they have done all that could be done for that end. On the other hand, if one dies in the act of causing pain and affliction, in hurting others, knowing that in failing they have brought about only evil in the world, what are their final thoughts of? Surely not satisfaction with having accomplished the task at hand, but hatred for their adversary and pain at their failure.
irregardless, its the same difference and i literally could care less for all intensive purposes so you're point is mute per say
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Floofybit
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Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Mon Mar 03, 2025 2:14 pm

Mercov wrote:
The Eur-asian Federation wrote:This makes me feel unsafe and I feel intimidated by such mafioso tactics.

If you aren't a Nazi, you would agree.

I also have to disagree. I would use both.

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Pale Dawn
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Founded: Feb 24, 2023
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Pale Dawn » Mon Mar 03, 2025 2:18 pm

Fjolmidlum wrote:
Pale Dawn wrote:I am not suggesting that I am indifferent or that it is fine to soil the soul by one's actions. Only that as a course of actions within ones life it is not always avoidable. Regarding repercussions I would still say you are oversimplifying. We are always responsible for our actions and for our choice not to act. If you have the capacity to protect those in your charge and you choose not to that is your right, you can find justification for it, but it is not blameless as you still carry the weight of the inaction. Our responsibilities are many and often conflicting. We can say that ones primary and first responsibility is in to God, but within the secular there is no clear delineation of priority and we must sort it ourselves. Your death through non violence is only blameless in so far as you do not owe any others an aspect of your life. If your place in life is to provide for those around you and you allow another to make the final choice of rather you live or die, you surrendered that responsibility and would be held to blame for the lack of provision. If you allow those under your charge to come to harm or death through inaction and a commitment to nonviolence then you are guilty of breaking their trust. To claim that these obligations hold no weight on your soul sounds like an empty existence. To say that trust does not physically exist and therefore of no moral weight when presented with choices of action is to proceed into emptiness and to devoid yourself also of love for there can be no love if there is no trust. If you forego love and trust in life for the sake of nonviolence that is a hollow victory.

I do agree that one is culpable just as much for action as inaction, so long as either is a result of volition/intent, but this is very context-dependent. To reiterate, the conception of relationships of trust as obligations isn't true on some real level. At some point trust is broken, almost always. This isn't even necessarily immoral, because the trust involved in these relationships exists only to the extent that each participate ascribes it as existing. To lose love for a romantic partner and to leave them, for example, is often to break a faith and trust that they had that the relationship would not end, but this is not a blameworthy action. Trust is only binding to the extent that one vows to do one thing or another, and to that end one shouldn't make promises they cannot or should not be keeping. and they should not justify other immorality to keep from the immorality of having broken a vow. Perhaps recognizing this does create a "hollow victory," to entertain that idea, but that is not ultimately the goal. The goal of life, in my eyes, is not winning but in ending suffering. To that end, the "hollow victory" is a mere byproduct to that path.

Beyond that, as before, in seeking non-violence one seeks to end the cycle of violence and creates conditions conducive to violence's end. One can be ultimately satisfied in knowing they have done all that could be done for that end. On the other hand, if one dies in the act of causing pain and affliction, in hurting others, knowing that in failing they have brought about only evil in the world, what are their final thoughts of? Surely not satisfaction with having accomplished the task at hand, but hatred for their adversary and pain at their failure.

Request for clarification. Timing will exclude a response today.
" some real level" You mean physically existing? How is it different than morality as far as existing based on our perception of it ?
"his isn't even necessarily immoral, because the trust involved in these relationships exists only to the extent that each participate ascribes it as existing. " Would you extend this to parent child relationships?
Last edited by Pale Dawn on Mon Mar 03, 2025 2:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Fjolmidlum
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fjolmidlum » Mon Mar 03, 2025 2:36 pm

Pale Dawn wrote:Request for clarification. Timing will exclude a response today.
" some real level" You mean physically existing?
"his isn't even necessarily immoral, because the trust involved in these relationships exists only to the extent that each participate ascribes it as existing. " Would you extend this to parent child relationships?

I do not mean physically existing per se, and I am unsure how trust could exist physically conventionally speaking, but rather existing as an inviolable or inherent fact. Regarding parent-child relationships, I would say that the trust there is also not binding itself, although breaking that trust is often associated with immoral actions. Relating to the romantic relationship example, if a parent doesn't actually love their child then I do not see how that is immoral even if it is breaking a certain faith or trust that a child place in them. If a parent, or ex-partner for that matter, were to intentionally express that in an intentionally hurtful way, however, then I do think that would be immoral, but it's not the breaking of trust itself that is immoral. People who are responsible for providing for others' well-being are indeed sometimes faced with complicated moral dilemmas where they may only be able to reasonably choose between different immoral options. This doesn't make those actions not immoral. This can be seen elsewhere as well. If a soldier, having made a vow to uphold the orders of their officers, is presented with the order to kill another being, then they may only choose to either break their vow or kill. Both actions are immoral, they must decide what immorality is lesser (although that is obvious in this case), and what they value more.

If I have anything else to note later on, I will edit this post accordingly.
irregardless, its the same difference and i literally could care less for all intensive purposes so you're point is mute per say
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Ethel mermania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Mar 03, 2025 2:51 pm

Mercov wrote:
The Eur-asian Federation wrote:This makes me feel unsafe and I feel intimidated by such mafioso tactics.

If you aren't a Nazi, you would agree.


If you are comfortable punching nazi's, I have no issue with them punching you.
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Floofybit
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Floofybit » Mon Mar 03, 2025 2:53 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Mercov wrote:If you aren't a Nazi, you would agree.


If you are comfortable punching nazi's, I have no issue with them punching you.

Hey, no tagbacks!

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Ethel mermania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Mar 03, 2025 3:07 pm

Floofybit wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
If you are comfortable punching nazi's, I have no issue with them punching you.

Hey, no tagbacks!


You have to call that first.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Mercov
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Postby Mercov » Mon Mar 03, 2025 3:37 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Mercov wrote:If you aren't a Nazi, you would agree.


If you are comfortable punching nazi's, I have no issue with them punching you.

Yea, and I'd win.
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Fahran
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Fahran » Mon Mar 03, 2025 4:32 pm

Saiwana wrote:If anyone male or female doesn't want circumcision, this must be respected if there is no medical requirement for them in particular. I'd say it would be justified for them to do whatever it takes to escape, regardless of any peer, cultural, or religious pressures.

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Circumcision is not the topic of this thread.
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Ethel mermania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Mar 03, 2025 4:40 pm

Mercov wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
If you are comfortable punching nazi's, I have no issue with them punching you.

Yea, and I'd win.

You are welcome to try
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Mon Mar 03, 2025 6:33 pm

Sometimes yes sometimes no, sometimes yes but no not anymore and sometimes no but ok maybe now is good idea. Look, it's complicated, it's politics, it's Clausewitz.

A disservice done by the mao-guevara axis of insurgency theory is not going into the when and when not, since the time was you kept going until you took over the country and the window for that type of civil conflict passed in a slow process beginning in the 60's. A lot of armed resistance is unjustified on the grounds that it is simply pointless, and sometimes even counter-productive.
Last edited by Kubra on Mon Mar 03, 2025 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Washington-Columbia
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Postby Washington-Columbia » Mon Mar 03, 2025 8:39 pm

Violence is necessary if it is the only option suitable. If the enemy doesn't play by the rules of war and the Geneva Convention, then it's fine to take up arms and fight against them, either force them to lay down their arms or continue onwards with needless bloodshed.
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Qaumodeen
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Postby Qaumodeen » Mon Mar 03, 2025 10:14 pm

Kostane wrote:Violence is only ever a tool of oppression. If the oppressed use violence, they turn into oppressors as well.


Easy to say if you have never faced it.
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USHALLNOTPASS
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Postby USHALLNOTPASS » Mon Mar 03, 2025 10:56 pm

I believe in the Kyoto School principle of total war as a means of resistance to modernity
Kubra wrote:Sometimes yes sometimes no, sometimes yes but no not anymore and sometimes no but ok maybe now is good idea. Look, it's complicated, it's politics, it's Clausewitz.

A disservice done by the mao-guevara axis of insurgency theory is not going into the when and when not, since the time was you kept going until you took over the country and the window for that type of civil conflict passed in a slow process beginning in the 60's. A lot of armed resistance is unjustified on the grounds that it is simply pointless, and sometimes even counter-productive.

The above user has NO theory of enmity, he does NOT possess the theory of the partisan. Man’s got 0 großraum
Last edited by USHALLNOTPASS on Mon Mar 03, 2025 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Malorossi
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Malorossi » Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:06 am

Qaumodeen wrote:
Kostane wrote:Violence is only ever a tool of oppression. If the oppressed use violence, they turn into oppressors as well.


Easy to say if you have never faced it.

Have you encountered this?
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Free Land of The Free Land of Freedo
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Postby Free Land of The Free Land of Freedo » Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:17 am

Kostane wrote:Violence is only ever a tool of oppression. If the oppressed use violence, they turn into oppressors as well.


Utterly brainless liberal claptrap.
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Qaumodeen
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Postby Qaumodeen » Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:37 am

Malorossi wrote:
Qaumodeen wrote:
Easy to say if you have never faced it.

Have you encountered this?


In the sense I have lived under a repressive government? Yes.
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Russian Collation
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Postby Russian Collation » Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:00 am

Qaumodeen wrote:
Malorossi wrote:Have you encountered this?


In the sense I have lived under a repressive government? Yes.

The 2020 protests in Belarus did nothing for the population.

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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Tue Mar 04, 2025 2:50 pm

"Violence is never the answer" is an invention of the ruling elite to discourage armed revolt. Violence absolutely can be the answer when all other recourse is exhausted. Just ask the Americans or any other country born from revolution. That's not to say we should go gun ho and start blasting as soon as we have a problem with authority. Hope for peace, but be ready to defend your rights with force of arms.
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No PRomISES
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Postby No PRomISES » Tue Mar 04, 2025 4:44 pm

Free Land of The Free Land of Freedo wrote:
Kostane wrote:Violence is only ever a tool of oppression. If the oppressed use violence, they turn into oppressors as well.


Utterly brainless liberal claptrap.


Very funny, Conservapedia

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Fanvm Tax
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Ex-Nation

Postby Fanvm Tax » Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:26 pm

Mercov wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
If you are comfortable punching nazi's, I have no issue with them punching you.

Yea, and I'd win.

Depends. A terminally online incel Nazi? Maybe. A hardened neo-Nazi gang member? No chance in hell.
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Fjolmidlum
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fjolmidlum » Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:35 pm

Fanvm Tax wrote:A hardened neo-Nazi gang member? No chance in hell.

My stepsister married a member of the Aryan Brotherhood. He got his ass beat by my stepfather who was 20 years his senior and hadn't hit the gym since his own felony sentence several decades prior. Yeah, not all these guys are bad asses.
irregardless, its the same difference and i literally could care less for all intensive purposes so you're point is mute per say
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Greater Caliban
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Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Caliban » Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:41 pm

Justified, I dunno about. I’ve been struggling over whether that’s ever technically ok.

But inevitable, absolutely. There’s really only so far dictators, oppressive regimes and the classes directly responsible for the strains the global economic system puts on the poor and marginalized can push people before they engage in violent protest. The responsibility for the resulting unrest is just theirs.
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Luziyca
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:54 pm

It depends on the circumstances, but I will say that there are situations where armed resistance is absolutely justified.

Being invaded by your larger neighbour is definitely one of those times where armed resistance is justified, and if a regime is so tyrannical, genocidal, oppressive (like the United States is shaping up to be), there may come a point where armed resistance against said regime is justifiable, and in fact, I would say that it is neccessary.
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Jabberwocky
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Postby Jabberwocky » Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:00 pm

Kostane wrote:Violence is only ever a tool of oppression. If the oppressed use violence, they turn into oppressors as well.

Nonsense. If you threaten me with violence, then violence is necessary to protect myself...from being oppressed, if you will.
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