Nationstates Olympic Games Discussion Thread

[Liventia]

Just to confirm that I intend to bid for the Olympic Winter Games with a view to hosting in February/March. I invite any interested junior hosts with prior hosting experience on NS Sports to send me a TG expressing their interest, but I will still bid to host solo if no acceptable junior co-host is forthcoming. I will finalise a bid no later than the first week of January.

Just a quick question - whether solo or cohosted, do we expect to see qualification stage in the bid before the start as had been the case back in XVI (which did run successfully) and XVII (did not proceed due to a material of reasons, but was originally proposed as such)?

Yes, the intention will be to run a (modified) qualification system.

[Liventia]

Host Candidature: Liventia bid for the XVIII Olympic Winter Games
Liventia is bidding to host the XVIII Olympic Winter Games. It will be a nation-wide bid with events held across the country, albeit with the majority of finals centred in the previous Olympic host city of Neverend.

Liventia has hosted the Olympic Winter Games four times: the VII (Neverend), VIII (City Centre), XIV (Neverend), and XVI (City Centre/ANCR/Lox Land Island) and the Games of the Olympiad twice: VIII and XIV (both Orean).

EVENTS/SIGNUP INFO
All events on the base list will be held, with the following notes/additions/exceptions: Skeleton mixed relay will be held; luge doubles will be split into men's and women's events; the men's and women's alpine combined will be team combined events with no mixed team parallel event; the freestyle ski dual moguls events will be added; women's events will be held in Nordic combined and ski jumping; ski jumping will (for now) use the old team-of-4 format; and the ski mountaineering events will be held as full medal events.

A semi-qualification system is planned, but all events will be held in Liventia, and qualification rounds will be considered "part of the Games" with the Opening Ceremony taking place prior to the first qualification rounds.

The planned signup window will run for no fewer than four and no more than six weeks from the time the bid is approved. Preliminary round scorination will not begin any earlier than 17 February 2024, with this date liable to move later in the month as necessary for the signup window. The Games will last far longer than the traditional 17 days with the qualification rounds being "part of the Games", although the finals will still be held over 17 days as normal. This means the full length of the Games is likely to last a month or longer.

All use of AI direct text output will be prohibited (using AI to generate ideas etc that does not result in the final text output being AI-generated is fine). Please declare any and all use of AI, or risk expulsion from the Games and vacating of results with other athletes promoted, if such unauthorised use is detected.

Scorination will take place using xkoranate with the Beijing 2022 sports files, plus files based on the 2022/23 and 2023/24 winter seasons for new events only. RP bonus will be degrading, but never to zero. Roster/information thread bonuses will count separately and permanently without degradation. MMAB will apply as follows:

1–10 entries: Full MMAB for any STDEV
11–30 entries: Full MMAB for STDEV of 33.0 or less
31–99 entries: Full MMAB for STDEV of 30.0 or less
100–150 entries: Full MMAB for STDEV of 27.0 or less
151+ entries: Full MMAB for STDEV of 24.0 or less

MMAB will scale proportionally to how far over the acceptable each delegation is. A 33% min-max penalty, applied to overall RP bonus, will apply to delegations with a standard deviation more than three points above the limit, or for any delegation with 11+ entries with a standard deviation over 33. These delegations will also have their MMAB capped at 0.667 (a 33% penalty on the maximum) even if their MMAB would otherwise be higher.

PUPPET/COMBINED DELEGATION INFO
Each user may enter a maximum of two delegations, with the main and the puppet delegation clearly marked. There is no maximum limit for one delegation but puppet delegations may not enter more than 120 entries – sufficient to enter at least one entry in each event. Skill ratings will range from 0 to 100, inclusive, but the overall delegation average must not exceed 50 points. Puppets must be clearly declared. Any undeclared puppetry detected will result in expulsion from the Games and vacating of results, with other athletes promoted.

Combined delegations with multiple NOC codes may be entered only when made up of nations controlled by multiple users. Individual users wishing to enter multiple teams may do so in a single combined delegation with a single NOC code or in the traditional main/puppet format. Users may also enter as part of a combined delegation, which would count as the main delegation, in addition to a puppet with the applicable entry limit. Combined delegations with multiple NOC codes must represent countries which each have their own NationStates account and which have a compelling regional or cultural link between them.

QUALIFICATION SYSTEM
Following the closing of signups, the number of entries in each discipline will be totalled, following which qualifiers (extra preliminary rounds, even for events without traditional preliminary rounds) will be held to aim for the following target total number of final entries per discipline:

Alpine skiing 560 (proposed breakdown: ~90 per SL/GS event x4, ~40 per DH/SG event x4, plus team combined entries through qualifying performances)
Biathlon 480 (proposed breakdown: ~90 per sprint/individual event x4, ~30 per mass sprint event x2, ~20 per team relay x3, plus pursuit entries through performance in sprint final)
Bobsleigh 120 (proposed breakdown: ~30 per event x4)
Cross-country skiing 720 (proposed breakdown: ~100 per 10km event x2, ~65 per skiathlon/50km event x4, ~15 per team relay x2, ~90 per individual sprint x2, ~25 per team sprint x2)
Curling 30 (proposed breakdown: 10 teams per event x3)
Figure skating 140 (proposed breakdown: ~40 per singles event x2, ~30 per pairs/dance event x2, plus mixed team entries through qualifying performances – minimum 10 mixed teams)
Freestyle skiing 490 (proposed breakdown: ~35 per event, plus mixed team aerials entries through qualifying performances – minimum 6 mixed teams)
Ice hockey 32 (proposed breakdown: 16 teams per event x2)
Luge 120 (proposed breakdown: ~40 per singles event x2, ~20 per doubles event x2, plus team relay entries through qualifying performances – minimum 14 teams)
Nordic combined 200 (proposed breakdown: ~50 per singles event x4, plus team sprint events through qualifying performances – minimum 14 teams)
Short track speed skating 300 (proposed breakdown: ~48 in 500m/1000m x4, ~36 in 1500m, 12 per team relay x3)
Skeleton 60 (proposed breakdown: ~30 per singles event, plus mixed team entries through qualifying performances – minimum 20 teams, maximum 2 per NOC)
Ski jumping 276 (proposed breakdown: ~60 per individual event, ~12 per team event)
Ski mountaineering 60 (proposed breakdown: ~20 per event, with mixed relay having its own qualifiers)
Snowboard 352 (proposed breakdown: ~32 per event, with mixed team snowboard cross having its own qualifiers)
Speed skating 420 (proposed breakdown: ~40 per short event x6, ~25 per mid-distance or long event x4, ~32 per mass start event x2, 8 per team pursuit)

All defending champions and/or the top host entry in each event will gain automatic progression to the finals. The top 20% of the target final entries by rating in each event will also gain automatic progression to the finals (for example, with 560 final entries the target in Alpine skiing, 112 automatic qualifiers – including the defending champion and top host entry – will be spread out across the individual events depending on the number of preliminary entries in each, with all remaining entries entering preliminary rounds to try to earn the last 448 spots across the events.) The 20% automatic progression will not apply to curling or ice hockey, where only the defending champions and host entry will receive automatic progression (if the host entry is also the defending champion in these events, the reigning silver medallists will receive automatic progression).

Because the qualifiers will be held officially as preliminary rounds and "part of the Games", the advancement system seen in past qualifying systems will not be in use: NOCs that send only one entry in any event will not have that entry advanced out of the preliminary rounds by any means other than on merit. Likewise, as "part of the Games", any records set in short track or speed skating during preliminary rounds will be official Olympic Records.

VENUES
(All events listed here other than the ceremonies apply only for the 'final rounds' and not the qualifying 'preliminary rounds')

Stade Grande Olympique, Neverend – Ceremonies, medal plaza, freeski big air, snowboard big air (temporary structures), men's and women's ice hockey gold medal finals (temporary rink)
Neverend Ferrandieu Ski Resort, Neverend – Alpine skiing, snowboard (except big air), ski cross
Ferrandieu Ski Sports Centre, Neverend – Freestyle skiing (except big air and ski cross)
Ferrandieu Ski Hill and Lodge, Neverend – Ski jumping, Nordic combined (jumping only)
National Biathlon Centre Ferrandieu, Neverend – Biathlon, cross-country skiing, Nordic combined (cross-country only)
National Sled Centre, Neverend – Bobsleigh, skeleton, luge
Neverend Curling Club, Neverend – Men's and women's curling
National Curling Centre of Excellence, City Centre – Mixed doubles curling *(medals awarded on site)
James Thornton Centre, Neverend – Figure skating, short track speed skating
National Indoor Convention Centre, Orean – Men's ice hockey
Michael Harley National Indoor Arena, City Centre – Men's ice hockey
Boister Arena, Boister - Women's ice hockey
Montress Ice Centre, Montress – Women's ice hockey
Mount Konshua Ski Centre, City Centre – Ski mountaineering *(medals awarded on site)
Coville Curling Club, Coville – Speed skating *(medals awarded on-site)

Olympic Villages located in Neverend, Neverend–Ferrandieu, City Centre, Orean, Coville, Boister, and Montress. The first four already exist; the latter three Villages will make use of existing hotels and student accommodation.

QUALIFIERS / PRELIMINARY ROUND VENUES

National Curling Centre of Excellence, City Centre – Men's curling
Coville Curling Club, Colville – Women's curling
Neverend Curling Club, Neverend – Mixed doubles curling
Mount Konshua Ski Centre, City Centre – Ski jumping, Nordic combined, snowboard parallel giant slalom, freestyle skiing (except big air and ski cross)
Neverend Ferrandieu Ski Resort, Neverend – Alpine skiing, ski cross, snowboard (except big air and PGS), ski mountaineering
Grovers Olympic Park, Orean – Freeski big air, snowboard big air (temporary structure inside stadium)
Montrefier Outdoor Sports Centre, Montrefier – Biathlon, cross-country skiing
Michael Harley National Indoor Arena, City Centre – Men's ice hockey
James Thornton Centre, Neverend – Men's ice hockey
Boister Arena, Boister - Women's ice hockey
Montress Ice Centre, Montress – Women's ice hockey
Schimpol Indoor Centre, Schimpol – Figure skating, short track speed skating
National Sled Centre, Neverend – Bobsleigh, skeleton, luge
National Indoor Convention Centre, Orean – Speed skating

Olympic Qualifying Villages located in Neverend, Neverend–Ferrandieu, City Centre, Orean, Coville, Boister, Schimpol and Montress. The first four already exist; the latter four Villages will make use of existing hotels and student accommodation.

[Quebec and Shingoryeo]

Bid acknowledged. I will give a week for competing bidders before starting a vote. The voting process will take place for 7 days after announcement.

Not a lot of proposed changes this time around, but following to be noted. Please let me know where I could add more:

• Men and Women's 50 km Walk will stay in the extended list for time being, with they be removed after XVIII summer.
• Extreme Kayak to be renamed into Kayak Cross.

Also confirming that over next few weeks I will slowly be working on updating NSSport-wiki entries for some of the more recent Olympics as well.

[Srednjaci]

Olimipiiiiiics
Yeiiii
We Like a lot sir

[Krytenia]

All use of AI direct output will be prohibited (using AI to generate ideas etc that does not result in the final output being AI-generated is fine). Please declare any and all use of AI, or risk expulsion from the Games and vacating of results with other athletes promoted, if such unauthorised use is detected.

For the sake of transparency (not applicable to me as I don't use any AI programs/apps/etc), how would this apply to the use of AI-generated images alongside original (ie non-AI) text?

[Liventia]

All use of AI direct output will be prohibited (using AI to generate ideas etc that does not result in the final output being AI-generated is fine). Please declare any and all use of AI, or risk expulsion from the Games and vacating of results with other athletes promoted, if such unauthorised use is detected.

For the sake of transparency (not applicable to me as I don't use any AI programs/apps/etc), how would this apply to the use of AI-generated images alongside original (ie non-AI) text?

I do not intend to permit the outright use of direct AI output, so this (AI art, AI photos for faces, etc) would fall in that category.

[Krytenia]

I do not intend to permit the outright use of direct AI output, so this (AI art, AI photos for faces, etc) would fall in that category.

Thanks for the speedy clarification.

[Ceni]

I do not intend to permit the outright use of direct AI output, so this (AI art, AI photos for faces, etc) would fall in that category.

What is your policy on grading RPs with RL stock photos, or photos of RL athletes as IC athletes? Are those pictures merely disregarded in the awarding of RP bonus, or will any use of those pictures also risk expulsion from the Games and the vacating of results?

Put differently: What makes AI pictures of athletes, say, worse than using RL stock photos, or trying to pass off RL athletes as NS athletes?

[Britonisea]

I don’t want to overstep or anything but I would like to better understand the rationale behind excluding the use of AI photos in RPs, especially when the user has written the text themselves. Using myself as an example, essentially most of the RPs I submitted for the XVII Games would be enough to result in expulsion from the Games (even though I always labelled when AI has been used and didn’t use AI to inspire anything I wrote about).

I understand that photos may not be necessary to post an RP but I, like I’m sure others do whether that be in the Games or more widely on the forums, feel a lot more inspired and willing to RP when we’re allowed to create content which mirrors real life ie a news article with photos or a webpage or a more accurate picture of, say, people from our nation ICly. Personally, I’ve spent ages trying to look for the right pictures to go alongside my articles - when AI pics have helped reduce the time I’ve spent looking (thus allowing me to be more consistent at RPing in something as RP-heavy as the Games or even focus on other sports in the forum) and is collected in the same way as non AI pictures (basically copying it from the internet and reuploading it here). I think it would be a shame to exclude such a great tool which I think, at least for me, has helped increase the accuracy of what people see of my nation ICly, alongside OOC factors such as the quality and designs of my RPs.

Of course, this is not me condoning the use of AI extensively in roleplays, and can agree that any use of AI should be communicated to the host.

[Graintfjall]

I completely agree with Britonisea.

[Liventia]

I do not intend to permit the outright use of direct AI output, so this (AI art, AI photos for faces, etc) would fall in that category.

What is your policy on grading RPs with RL stock photos, or photos of RL athletes as IC athletes? Are those pictures merely disregarded in the awarding of RP bonus, or will any use of those pictures also risk expulsion from the Games and the vacating of results?

Put differently: What makes AI pictures of athletes, say, worse than using RL stock photos, or trying to pass off RL athletes as NS athletes?

I don’t want to overstep or anything but I would like to better understand the rationale behind excluding the use of AI photos in RPs, especially when the user has written the text themselves. Using myself as an example, essentially most of the RPs I submitted for the XVII Games would be enough to result in expulsion from the Games (even though I always labelled when AI has been used and didn’t use AI to inspire anything I wrote about).

I understand that photos may not be necessary to post an RP but I, like I’m sure others do whether that be in the Games or more widely on the forums, feel a lot more inspired and willing to RP when we’re allowed to create content which mirrors real life ie a news article with photos or a webpage or a more accurate picture of, say, people from our nation ICly. Personally, I’ve spent ages trying to look for the right pictures to go alongside my articles - when AI pics have helped reduce the time I’ve spent looking (thus allowing me to be more consistent at RPing in something as RP-heavy as the Games or even focus on other sports in the forum) and is collected in the same way as non AI pictures (basically copying it from the internet and reuploading it here). I think it would be a shame to exclude such a great tool which I think, at least for me, has helped increase the accuracy of what people see of my nation ICly, alongside OOC factors such as the quality and designs of my RPs.

Of course, this is not me condoning the use of AI extensively in roleplays, and can agree that any use of AI should be communicated to the host.

It's a fair point that using AI-generated photos or images is very similar in nature to simply grabbing (and often not crediting) existing photos or images already on the Internet. To answer Ceni's question, I would disregard said photos in grading RPs. I acknowledge Britonisea's point that the use of such images can augment an RP, and am willing to compromise by allowing AI images, as long as its use is declared, with the same treatment as using RL photos (simply disregarded in grading the RP). Original graphics or images would obviously receive the appropriate bonus, and any undeclared use later detected would still be punished.

[Quebec and Shingoryeo]

Speaking as Quebec and Shingoryeo (user), not anything official capacity-wise.

It's good to see a question is being asked over whether AI images (with proper attribution) are also counted as part of the RPs graded. This was not being raised back when Tumbra and Chromatika had put their AI-specific guideline for their successful World Cup 93 bid, and neither me nor my co-bidder for XVII winter and summer have extended beyond either.

Personally I have always assumed that they were outside of the gradable domains within one's RP because you are outsourcing the work to AI machine the same way we are using RL images. This would mean that, while no malicious intent is presented when cited correctly and on the RP, its functions would remain that of a supplementary material and no more, making it not suitable to be graded as part of overall RP. This doesn't mean that they are not funny, or doesn't help improving the experience (see: Drawkland's WB47 RPs with an AI image he would use for each RP - they were amusing and quite helpful with the arc), but it's good to set boundaries.

I think a recent IBC tournament bid by Poafmersia, posted around the time of the World Cup 93, presents a good example for future tournament hosts (of any kind):

For AI-generated images used as part of an original roleplay, the host would consider them to be similar to using online-found stock images. No additional credit would be given for usage of such images.

[Graintfjall]

I've always assumed such images receive 0 RP bonus in their own right, yeah; it's just a way of adding color that's less immersion breaking than stock_photo.jgp. Thanks for the answer Liventia, that assuages my concern.

Other details of the bid look good.

[Srednjaci]

I personally like to put a RL photo in my RP. Somehow, those letters, words, sentences, but also the whole event gains beauty and becomes much more tangible, I would say. I have no opinion about AI photos. I leave that to the host. As Queb said, a lot of effort we put into finding a suitable photo that would bring the reader closer to everything that is written.
It's not easy to find suitable photo.
Liv, you explained well .

[Britonisea]

I can very much get behind the compromise and appreciate it!

As Graintfjall said, other than that everything else looks good - looking forward to participating in the event you host (and hopefully I don't flop at the Winter Games for the nth time haha)...

[Liventia]

The bid now accordingly reflects that the AI penalty applies to direct text output produced by AI.

[Quebec and Shingoryeo]

Quick question, once again with a NSOC cap off:

What will be your RP grading policy on content extensively or almost exclusively using real-life teams or athletes, bearing near to absolutely no connection to IC?

This differs from bizarre instances inspired/influenced by them, of course, as we often find ourselves influenced by historic moments or athletes during the RL Olympics. This would also be different from some cases where nations would be spin-offs from RL nations.

That said, I find this a timely question to ask in light of recent instances at the NS World Cup, where a participant has practically 're-scorinated' the FIFA World Cup, with near to no IC ties, for the entirety of qualification stage.

[Bears Armed]

This differs from bizarre instances inspired/influenced by them, of course, as we often find ourselves influenced by historic moments or athletes during the RL Olympics.

*remembers Prux's team of zombified RL football stars in the Bears' first World Cup qualifying campaign*

[Liventia]

Quick question, once again with a NSOC cap off:

What will be your RP grading policy on content extensively or almost exclusively using real-life teams or athletes, bearing near to absolutely no connection to IC?

This differs from bizarre instances inspired/influenced by them, of course, as we often find ourselves influenced by historic moments or athletes during the RL Olympics. This would also be different from some cases where nations would be spin-offs from RL nations.

That said, I find this a timely question to ask in light of recent instances at the NS World Cup, where a participant has practically 're-scorinated' the FIFA World Cup, with near to no IC ties, for the entirety of qualification stage.

I think it would depend on how it is presented.

Needless to say, RPs with direct connection to and mentions of the Games and its results will be favourably looked on more than RPs that do not. Of course it's fine to have a prewritten story and use that as RPs during the Games with no reference to the Games. They will be graded appropriately but cannot possibly hope to obtain the same bonus as a comparable RP of similar quality that does.

If anyone wants to pretend that "RL" is a game like NS is within their country, and "scorinate" a tournament and present this as something a character in their world is doing, that would be acceptable as an RP and graded appropriately depending on the level of relation to the Games (as stated above).

The example cited, where it's not even an RP and merely a hypothetical OOC rescorination of RL events, would not fall under this category and would not be considered an RP at all, attracting no bonus.

[Olympic Council]

Host voting is now open.

You have seven days to send your votes.

[Al-Tamazgha]

Just letting you guys know that we are about halfway into the voting period.

We have four votes. Make sure to get more in over remaining days, folks!

[United Hawkland]

For the sake of transparency (not applicable to me as I don't use any AI programs/apps/etc), how would this apply to the use of AI-generated images alongside original (ie non-AI) text?

I do not intend to permit the outright use of direct AI output, so this (AI art, AI photos for faces, etc) would fall in that category.

I know I am very late to this party but I would like to double-check the rules here.
Does this outright ban AI art from being used in RPs and invalidate the said RP, or does it just mean it wouldn't be considered as part of the RP? I feel as if the former is pretty strict, especially considering many people have made AI art a fairly sizable part of their RPs. As long as the AI art is declared, why is it any worse than using stock images? If anything I'd say it's better because instead of taking work from the public domain that has nothing to do with your RP, you are taking work from the public domain that is specifically made to fit your RP, no matter if a human or an AI made it.

Now, GPT and other text-based programs? I understand that. I wouldn't want lazy AI-generated RPs in my tournament either. But as long as everything is written by the human, I don't see the point in invalidating the RP based on an AI-generated picture of a town square or something.

[Liventia]

I do not intend to permit the outright use of direct AI output, so this (AI art, AI photos for faces, etc) would fall in that category.

I know I am very late to this party but I would like to double-check the rules here.
Does this outright ban AI art from being used in RPs and invalidate the said RP, or does it just mean it wouldn't be considered as part of the RP? I feel as if the former is pretty strict, especially considering many people have made AI art a fairly sizable part of their RPs. As long as the AI art is declared, why is it any worse than using stock images? If anything I'd say it's better because instead of taking work from the public domain that has nothing to do with your RP, you are taking work from the public domain that is specifically made to fit your RP, no matter if a human or an AI made it.

Now, GPT and other text-based programs? I understand that. I wouldn't want lazy AI-generated RPs in my tournament either. But as long as everything is written by the human, I don't see the point in invalidating the RP based on an AI-generated picture of a town square or something.

The bid now makes clear that AI-generated images (art, photos etc) is allowed where declared.

[Quebec and Shingoryeo]

Results!

Congratulations to Liventia.

[Graintfjall]

congrats Liv