Late 2023 Israel-Hamas Conflict, Thread 2 of ?

[Insaanistan]

Israel has dropped leaflets over Khan Younis quoting the Qur’ân against the Palestinians.

The verse directed at the Palestinian civilians in question is “The flood overtook them, for they persisted in wrongdoing”.

Essentially, Israel is in actuality acting out God’s will on stubborn wrongdoers, Gazans, who must be punished.

The many of the leaflets were dropped during rainy weather and they come as Israel plans to flood “Hamas tunnels” in Gaza, despite being warned that’s not a good idea.

Here’s a Jerusalem Post article on it before you complain

[Ors Might]

He didn't "berate" them for not watching the video. He criticized them for stating they wouldn't watch the video regardless.

Insaanistan gave the distinct impression that watching that video would be "minutes of my life that I can never get back." I mean, if Greater Miami Shores urged you to watch a video from PragerU explaining how our Founders meant the US to be a Christian nation, would you watch the video?

No, because it'd be from GMS. Whatever my disagreements with Insaanistan, were they to suggest I watch a video to get a better understanding of the topic we're discussing, I'd at the very least skim it over when I have the chance.

[Tmutarakhan]

He never presented any evidence in the first place. He asserted the existence of a video, giving an implausible sounding description, then berated the other poster for not watching the video that he never made available.

If you’ve noticed, for nearly all the updates I give I don’t provide links.

That makes it more difficult to take you seriously.

This is because Google is bloody free and this stuff is easily accessible.

It's YOUR job to substantiate claims you make. It is not anybody else's job to go hunting for whatever you're talking about, especially if you haven't given much grounds for confidence that you're talking about anything real. If it's so easy to access, then YOU access it and show what you are talking about.

[Tmutarakhan]

Insaanistan gave the distinct impression that watching that video would be "minutes of my life that I can never get back." I mean, if Greater Miami Shores urged you to watch a video from PragerU explaining how our Founders meant the US to be a Christian nation, would you watch the video?

No, because it'd be from GMS. Whatever my disagreements with Insaanistan, were they to suggest I watch a video to get a better understanding of the topic we're discussing, I'd at the very least skim it over when I have the chance.

I haven't found him to be much more reliable than GMS. If you have a higher opinion of him, bully for you, but don't expect that everyone else has trust for him.

[Tmutarakhan]

Insaanistan gave the distinct impression that watching that video would be "minutes of my life that I can never get back." I mean, if Greater Miami Shores urged you to watch a video from PragerU explaining how our Founders meant the US to be a Christian nation, would you watch the video?

For God’s sake, the video is from a respected news site, not themuslimskeptic.com.

How would anybody guess that? Who knows what source you were drawing from if you refuse to say?

Here’s a Jerusalem Post article on it before you complain

Was that so hard?

[Bradfordville]

No, because it'd be from GMS. Whatever my disagreements with Insaanistan, were they to suggest I watch a video to get a better understanding of the topic we're discussing, I'd at the very least skim it over when I have the chance.

I haven't found him to be much more reliable than GMS. If you have a higher opinion of him, bully for you, but don't expect that everyone else has trust for him.

Bro, most people are more reliable when it comes to citing sources and backing up their claims than GMS. you don't need to agree with him, but most people can be trusted to be more reliable than GMS when it comes to backing their claims.

[Insaanistan]

No, because it'd be from GMS. Whatever my disagreements with Insaanistan, were they to suggest I watch a video to get a better understanding of the topic we're discussing, I'd at the very least skim it over when I have the chance.

I haven't found him to be much more reliable than GMS.

I’m sorry, what?

[San Lumen]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/investin ... index.html

Harvard, Penn and MIT presidents under fire over ‘despicable’ testimony on antisemitism and genocide

[Betoni]

In claiming that the lengthy and well-known history of its usage is "very narrow cherry picked": that is seriously dishonest.

In the very quote that Fahran provided the person specified that they did not use the phrase to allude to genocide.

The guy waving a Confederate flag specified that he was not being racist. Yeah, right. If you don't want to be associated with genocidaires then don't make a point of using their slogan. Especially don't make it the hill you want to die on: that makes it sound as if it is very very important to you to be associated with all the people who have used that phrase.

Fahran has reffered to the PLO charter that did not use the phrase at all and the protests of 60s and 70s which actually have very little evidence of the phrase being very popular. The English usage became only popular in the 90s and has had its own history, not totally divorced from the original Arabic, but separate. To present the PLO charter and its allusion to ethnic cleansing as the only historical context for the phrase is indeed cherry picking and narrow in scope. Besides, the immidiate context in which a phrase is used is, well more immediate, than the historcal context that apparently stops at the 70s.

If you have an argument about the usage of the phrase in question Im all ears, Id rather not talk about some imaginary scenario of a guy waving a confederate flag.

[Querria]

What's the latest on the conflict?

[Insaanistan]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/investing/bill-ackman-harvard-penn-antisemitism/index.html

Harvard, Penn and MIT presidents under fire over ‘despicable’ testimony on antisemitism and genocide

That reminds me. The article linked above talks about the “Israeli style falafel” restaurant that got vandalized. While again, this doesn’t justify the destruction of property, as more on an emphasis on the fact it was not targeted for simply being a Jewish business, the owner had apparently previously fired employees for being pro-Palestine, for infractions as small as wearing a Palestine pin.

[Kubra]

I haven't found him to be much more reliable than GMS. If you have a higher opinion of him, bully for you, but don't expect that everyone else has trust for him.

Bro, most people are more reliable when it comes to citing sources and backing up their claims than GMS. you don't need to agree with him, but most people can be trusted to be more reliable than GMS when it comes to backing their claims.

loool joining in here on the chorus of an undeserved low-blow

[Ifreann]

Because obviously Hamas would use ambulances rather than their famous extensive network of tunnels, exposing themselves to the enemy.

when they want to move more quickly than on foot, certainly.

And so they travel in an unarmoured and highly visible vehicle that their enemies will not hesitate to attack. Sure, totally, they're doing war crimes for no reason, very plausible.

Yes it is. That doesn't give Israel license to airstrike an ambulance.

Yes it does, when that "ambulance" is not being used as an ambulance but as a personnel carrier.

No, it doesn't.

It's not an assumption to listen to the things Israeli government and military officials have to say about this conflict, and judge them based on those comments.

---

Yes, I'm explaining to you how I was mistaken and providing you with corrections of my post as part of a dastardly plot to deceive the good people of NSG. You whine and whine about how I supposedly just assume that Israelis are evil for the sake of evil, but you here show yourself to be assuming that I am always acting maliciously.

What does "no, not a lie" mean in your post?

That I was mistaken, not lying. As I explained. When I told you that Google was translating the post wrong, what the fuck did you think I was talking about? I was telling you why I got it wrong.

It was an intentional falsehood. You forwarded the lie, and did not acknowledge that it was false until you were called on it, and denied that it was a lie. Yes, you generally seem to be acting maliciously.

Again, not an intentional falsehood, a mistake. Google mistranslated the tweet. It says so on the tweet now. Very fucking obviously no one at Google was deep in their translation code, modifying it on the fly to trick people about what Netanyahu was saying on Twitter. Obviously I didn't know it was mistranslated when I posted it, or I wouldn't have linked to the tweet with a community note on it explaining that I was wrong.

[Tmutarakhan]

I haven't found him to be much more reliable than GMS. If you have a higher opinion of him, bully for you, but don't expect that everyone else has trust for him.

Bro, most people are more reliable when it comes to citing sources and backing up their claims than GMS. you don't need to agree with him, but most people can be trusted to be more reliable than GMS when it comes to backing their claims.

As far as citing sources and backing up his claims? Insanistan just made a big point of how he shouldn't ever have to cite sources or back up claims because we should all just Google it. He often makes totally crazy assertions like that Israel expelled 100,000 Palestinians on its first day of existence, without giving the slightest clue of what he is even distorting into saying that. He is now backing up Betoni for claiming that the "river to the sea" slogan hardly ever meant kicking out all the Jews, when I never heard anyone claim it meant anything else until the past couple months.

[Ors Might]

No, because it'd be from GMS. Whatever my disagreements with Insaanistan, were they to suggest I watch a video to get a better understanding of the topic we're discussing, I'd at the very least skim it over when I have the chance.

I haven't found him to be much more reliable than GMS. If you have a higher opinion of him, bully for you, but don't expect that everyone else has trust for him.

That's definitely your personal bias showing.

[Insaanistan]

Bro, most people are more reliable when it comes to citing sources and backing up their claims than GMS. you don't need to agree with him, but most people can be trusted to be more reliable than GMS when it comes to backing their claims.

As far as citing sources and backing up his claims? Insanistan just made a big point of how he shouldn't ever have to cite sources or back up claims because we should all just Google it.

Oh, come on, you’ve been in this thread long enough to know that when asked to provide sources I do so.

He often makes totally crazy assertions like that Israel expelled 100,000 Palestinians on its first day of existence,

I said 100,000 Palestinians had already been expelled before the Arab nations declared war, which you then questioned, prompting me to (surprise surprise) provide a source corroborating.

without giving the slightest clue of what he is even distorting into saying that. He is now backing up Betoni for claiming that the "river to the sea" slogan hardly ever meant kicking out all the Jews,

What I am claiming is that “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” is not an inherently antisemitic statement, because it isn’t.

when I never heard anyone claim it meant anything else until the past couple months.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the idea “From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free” is not advocating for the extermination of Jews originated in October of this year?

[San Lumen]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/investing/bill-ackman-harvard-penn-antisemitism/index.html

Harvard, Penn and MIT presidents under fire over ‘despicable’ testimony on antisemitism and genocide

That reminds me. The article linked above talks about the “Israeli style falafel” restaurant that got vandalized. While again, this doesn’t justify the destruction of property, as more on an emphasis on the fact it was not targeted for simply being a Jewish business, the owner had apparently previously fired employees for being pro-Palestine, for infractions as small as wearing a Palestine pin.

all three of them should resign and if not donors should withhold money. If you can't say anti semitism and genocide is wrong you have no business being a college president.

[Kubra]

when they want to move more quickly than on foot, certainly.

And so they travel in an unarmoured and highly visible vehicle that their enemies will not hesitate to attack. Sure, totally, they're doing war crimes for no reason, very plausible.

Yes it does, when that "ambulance" is not being used as an ambulance but as a personnel carrier.

No, it doesn't.

What does "no, not a lie" mean in your post?

That I was mistaken, not lying. As I explained. When I told you that Google was translating the post wrong, what the fuck did you think I was talking about? I was telling you why I got it wrong.

It was an intentional falsehood. You forwarded the lie, and did not acknowledge that it was false until you were called on it, and denied that it was a lie. Yes, you generally seem to be acting maliciously.

Again, not an intentional falsehood, a mistake. Google mistranslated the tweet. It says so on the tweet now. Very fucking obviously no one at Google was deep in their translation code, modifying it on the fly to trick people about what Netanyahu was saying on Twitter. Obviously I didn't know it was mistranslated when I posted it, or I wouldn't have linked to the tweet with a community note on it explaining that I was wrong.

I mean it translated the same for me: gaza strip. I had to do a little digging to get the proper info.

Heck, another anecdote, on the UA map there was "security forces raiding Jenin" which would have been surprising, since security forces generally means the PA. Then of course you go to the source, an al-jazeera xeet, then you punch that into google translate and it comes out "occupation forces", which generally means IDF.
Machine translation ain't perfect, ain't no point to any of us should get too much blame for the stuff.

EDIT: going back to the original tweet, context has been aded and it translates correctly. Seems like Bibi's twitter account may have put רצועת by mistake.

[Tmutarakhan]

when they want to move more quickly than on foot, certainly.

And so they travel in an unarmoured and highly visible vehicle

I'm sure they would use tanks or APC's if they had them. That's why I am totally in favor of making sure they can't import such things.

that their enemies will not hesitate to attack.

Most ambulance in Gaza haven't gotten shot, you know. Actually there is a great deal of hesitancy to fire on ambulances. We hear about it every time it happens because it is such PR for Hamas.

Sure, totally, they're doing war crimes for no reason, very plausible.

Hardly for no reason.

Yes it does, when that "ambulance" is not being used as an ambulance but as a personnel carrier.

No, it doesn't.

You can't grant absolute immunity to the other side any time they put red markings on their vehicles.

What does "no, not a lie" mean in your post?

That I was mistaken, not lying. As I explained. When I told you that Google was translating the post wrong, what the fuck did you think I was talking about? I was telling you why I got it wrong.

It was an intentional falsehood. You forwarded the lie, and did not acknowledge that it was false until you were called on it, and denied that it was a lie. Yes, you generally seem to be acting maliciously.

Again, not an intentional falsehood, a mistake. Google mistranslated the tweet. It says so on the tweet now. Very fucking obviously no one at Google was deep in their translation code, modifying it on the fly to trick people about what Netanyahu was saying on Twitter. Obviously I didn't know it was mistranslated when I posted it, or I wouldn't have linked to the tweet with a community note on it explaining that I was wrong.

If your claim now is that you just didn't bother to read the note, that's slightly better than you knowing that you were wrong but posting the inflammatory misinterpretation anyway, though not much better.

[Kubra]

And so they travel in an unarmoured and highly visible vehicle

I'm sure they would use tanks or APC's if they had them. That's why I am totally in favor of making sure they can't import such things.

that their enemies will not hesitate to attack.

Most ambulance in Gaza haven't gotten shot, you know. Actually there is a great deal of hesitancy to fire on ambulances. We hear about it every time it happens because it is such PR for Hamas.

Sure, totally, they're doing war crimes for no reason, very plausible.

Hardly for no reason.

No, it doesn't.

You can't grant absolute immunity to the other side any time they put red markings on their vehicles.

That I was mistaken, not lying. As I explained. When I told you that Google was translating the post wrong, what the fuck did you think I was talking about? I was telling you why I got it wrong.

Again, not an intentional falsehood, a mistake. Google mistranslated the tweet. It says so on the tweet now. Very fucking obviously no one at Google was deep in their translation code, modifying it on the fly to trick people about what Netanyahu was saying on Twitter. Obviously I didn't know it was mistranslated when I posted it, or I wouldn't have linked to the tweet with a community note on it explaining that I was wrong.

If your claim now is that you just didn't bother to read the note, that's slightly better than you knowing that you were wrong but posting the inflammatory misinterpretation anyway, though not much better.

The note was not present at the time of viewing. I think I should have some credibility here, because I'm the one who pointed out it was in the envelope and not the strip.

[Tmutarakhan]

As far as citing sources and backing up his claims? Insanistan just made a big point of how he shouldn't ever have to cite sources or back up claims because we should all just Google it.

Oh, come on, you’ve been in this thread long enough to know that when asked to provide sources I do so.

That has not been my experience with you.

He often makes totally crazy assertions like that Israel expelled 100,000 Palestinians on its first day of existence,

I said 100,000 Palestinians had already been expelled before the Arab nations declared war, which you then questioned, prompting me to (surprise surprise) provide a source corroborating.

You said that Israel had expelled 100,000 people before the Arab nations declared war. The Arab nations declared war on the first day of Israel's existence. I have not seen from you any source clarifying where you are getting such a distortion from.

without giving the slightest clue of what he is even distorting into saying that. He is now backing up Betoni for claiming that the "river to the sea" slogan hardly ever meant kicking out all the Jews,

What I am claiming is that “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” is not an inherently antisemitic statement, because it isn’t.

when I never heard anyone claim it meant anything else until the past couple months.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the idea “From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free” is not advocating for the extermination of Jews originated in October of this year?

I have never heard any such reinterpretation until these past couple months, that is correct. Whenever the slogan has come up, for a half century now, it has been taken for granted it means getting rid of all the Zionists (in recent decades as Farhan has pointed out, some Likudniks have thrown the slogan back at them, everybody understanding that it means ethnic cleansing of the other side).

[Tmutarakhan]

The note was not present at the time of viewing.

OK now it makes sense.

I think I should have some credibility here, because I'm the one who pointed out it was in the envelope and not the strip.

I was the one to point that out, but never mind.

[Kubra]

The note was not present at the time of viewing.

OK now it makes sense.

I think I should have some credibility here, because I'm the one who pointed out it was in the envelope and not the strip.

I was the one to point that out, but never mind.

bruh I was literally the first post under his

[Insaanistan]

That reminds me. The article linked above talks about the “Israeli style falafel” restaurant that got vandalized. While again, this doesn’t justify the destruction of property, as more on an emphasis on the fact it was not targeted for simply being a Jewish business, the owner had apparently previously fired employees for being pro-Palestine, for infractions as small as wearing a Palestine pin.

all three of them should resign and if not donors should withhold money. If you can't say anti semitism and genocide is wrong you have no business being a college president.

That threw me off as well. The question was “What would you do about calls for genocide of Jewish people?” not “What would you do if students expressed support for Palestine.”

[Europa Undivided]

What's the latest on the conflict?

The IDF is bringing the sea to the Hamas tunnels.

Better than going in there and taking enormous losses from booby traps and ambushes I guess.