The Fallacy of Centrism

[El Lazaro]

As an actual centrist, no I am sick to death of being strawmanned by left wingers who have no idea what we actually believe despite having no idea. No, none of what's written in the OP is correct. Not one word.

American "centrism" is very different from Australia centrism. I mean, imagine if someone came to Australia and said that we should consider gun ownership a fundamental right.

As an American who considers that a reasonable position, he is clearly right-wing.

[Uiiop]

American "centrism" is very different from Australia centrism. I mean, imagine if someone came to Australia and said that we should consider gun ownership a fundamental right.

As an American who considers that a reasonable position, he is clearly right-wing.

Isn't America the only place that has guns rights an center-right(relative term) rather than radical leftist position.

[Undemocacy]

American "centrism" is very different from Australia centrism. I mean, imagine if someone came to Australia and said that we should consider gun ownership a fundamental right.

As an American who considers that a reasonable position

I think you have proven my point. What is seen as centrism varies significantly from country to country. (Also I don't know ArP's opinion on other polices so I won't way in on if he's right wing)

[Galloism]

I'd suggest there's a lot of "centrists" who aren't really centrists per se, but just divergent in beliefs.

IE, they support gun rights AND universal healthcare - which puts them on both the right and the left depending on the issue. And this is true on any number of issues.

We like to think of a left/right line, but it's really a huge cloud thing with different beliefs depending on subject.

[Uiiop]

I'd suggest there's a lot of "centrists" who aren't really centrists per se, but just divergent in beliefs.

IE, they support gun rights AND universal healthcare - which puts them on both the right and the left depending on the issue. And this is true on any number of issues.

We like to think of a left/right line, but it's really a huge cloud thing with different beliefs depending on subject.

But how are pundits and politicians supposed to triangulate and appeal to them then if they can't find the golden mean?

[Maurnindaia]

Ah yes, the Far Right Republicans
In leauge with other Far Right groups such as the Fascists

[Galloism]

I'd suggest there's a lot of "centrists" who aren't really centrists per se, but just divergent in beliefs.

IE, they support gun rights AND universal healthcare - which puts them on both the right and the left depending on the issue. And this is true on any number of issues.

We like to think of a left/right line, but it's really a huge cloud thing with different beliefs depending on subject.

But how are pundits and politicians supposed to triangulate and appeal to them then if they can't find the golden mean?

They seem to be good at it (which is bad for society, but here we are).

[EuroStralia]

Ah yes, the Far Right Republicans
In leauge with other Far Right groups such as the Fascists

The poll clearly has a far left bias, just like the person who made it.

[Uiiop]

Ah yes, the Far Right Republicans
In leauge with other Far Right groups such as the Fascists

I don't know what else they think would happen if their candidate said to the proud boys "Standby for January 6th".

[Galloism]

Ah yes, the Far Right Republicans
In leauge with other Far Right groups such as the Fascists

The poll clearly has a far left bias, just like the person who made it.

The poll is super meta.

I put that I'm on the left, as I consider myself to be, even though a bunch of random people seem to think I'm both left wing and right wing (depending on the thread we happen to be in at the time). It's literally the problem when trying to classify centrism.

[Maurnindaia]

Ah yes, the Far Right Republicans
In leauge with other Far Right groups such as the Fascists

The poll clearly has a far left bias, just like the person who made it.

I've seen [and heard of] their bias before, but this just takes the cake

[EuroStralia]

The poll clearly has a far left bias, just like the person who made it.

I've seen [and heard of] their bias before, but this just takes the cake

It shouldn't have taken you this long to figure it out.

[Maurnindaia]

I've seen [and heard of] their bias before, but this just takes the cake

It shouldn't have taken you this long to figure it out.

In my defense, I've only heard of Terra being a moron in TNP's Regional Assembly

[EuroStralia]

It shouldn't have taken you this long to figure it out.

In my defense, I've only heard of Terra being a moron in TNP's Regional Assembly

If you hear claims, you should investigate them.

[New Saharia]

The poll clearly has a far left bias, just like the person who made it.

I've seen [and heard of] their bias before, but this just takes the cake

NationStates Political Forums is our one-stop shop for instant brainrot.

[El Lazaro]

As an American who considers that a reasonable position

I think you have proven my point. What is seen as centrism varies significantly from country to country. (Also I don't know ArP's opinion on other polices so I won't way in on if he's right wing)

Most, if not all, of the opinions he voices are right-wing, and he has a habit of calling anything not firmly aligned with his beliefs far-left regardless of whether it’s moderate or radical. If I was somehow right-wing in Australia, this would only further prove that his attempts at framing himself as the real centrist^TM are laughable and hypocritical.

[Undemocacy]

I think you have proven my point. What is seen as centrism varies significantly from country to country. (Also I don't know ArP's opinion on other polices so I won't way in on if he's right wing)

Most, if not all, of the opinions he voices are right-wing, and he has a habit of calling anything not firmly aligned with his beliefs far-left regardless of whether it’s moderate or radical. If I was somehow right-wing in Australia, this would only further prove that his attempts at framing himself as the real centrist^TM are laughable and hypocritical.

Sorry, I was not aware of his other opinions and actions.
So does he act as an example of right wing people pretending to be centrist?

[El Lazaro]

Most, if not all, of the opinions he voices are right-wing, and he has a habit of calling anything not firmly aligned with his beliefs far-left regardless of whether it’s moderate or radical. If I was somehow right-wing in Australia, this would only further prove that his attempts at framing himself as the real centrist^TM are laughable and hypocritical.

Sorry, I was not aware of his other opinions and actions.
So does he act as an example of right wing people pretending to be centrist?

Well, yes, unless I really am a far-left extremist, and the socialists on this forum really are real-life terrorists.

Call me whatever, but I don’t think most leftists on this site would consider me strongly left-wing, much less an extremist. Regardless of my dislike for plenty of them, they also aren’t terrorists. I think. Hopefully.

[Forsher]

As an American who considers that a reasonable position, he is clearly right-wing.

Isn't America the only place that has guns rights an center-right(relative term) rather than radical leftist position.

Abstracting from where to locate that specific poster's politics, no. In New Zealand, the only people that care about guns are culture warriors trying to use American talking points. Such people are universally right wing alleged libertarians.

[Apolita]

Centrism is defined as taking "moderate positions" on issues. However, this is the issue.

Centrists oppose change. They's rather compromise a person's rights than to fight for their liberty. Destroy the planet rather than take action against climate change. Hell, today's genocidal GOP is being praised by centrists; if you laud the GOP's crusade against human rights, progress, and marginalized groups, you're either centrist or rightist.

Also, while a centrist may somewhat support someone's rights, they'd also uphold the institutions that cause inequity. Hence, centrism is a fallacious, complicit conservative ideology.

Overall, centrism is a flawed position due to being a complicit, conservative ideology in disguise.

Yeah no. Depending on what you mean, modern centrism is based on calling for fundamental reforms of institutions that calls for market-based solutions on healthcare, energy and the environment for the public good as well as commitment to institutions for global governance and means-testing of social programs before implementation (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/43 ... m-for-2020, https://bigthink.com/politics-current-a ... n-downfall, http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/po ... eral-party) It also involves trying to equalize spending when it comes to school districts too.

[Uiiop]

Centrism is defined as taking "moderate positions" on issues. However, this is the issue.

Centrists oppose change. They's rather compromise a person's rights than to fight for their liberty. Destroy the planet rather than take action against climate change. Hell, today's genocidal GOP is being praised by centrists; if you laud the GOP's crusade against human rights, progress, and marginalized groups, you're either centrist or rightist.

Also, while a centrist may somewhat support someone's rights, they'd also uphold the institutions that cause inequity. Hence, centrism is a fallacious, complicit conservative ideology.

Overall, centrism is a flawed position due to being a complicit, conservative ideology in disguise.

Yeah no. Depending on what you mean, modern centrism is based on calling for fundamental reforms of institutions that calls for market-based solutions on healthcare, energy and the environment for the public good as well as commitment to institutions for global governance and means-testing of social programs before implementation (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/43 ... m-for-2020, https://bigthink.com/politics-current-a ... n-downfall, http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/po ... eral-party) It also involves trying to equalize spending when it comes to school districts too.

Despite your articles’ framing that’s just the status quo. So you’re literally proving OP’s point.

What did Bill Clinton not privatize social security fast enough for y’all?

Edit: Taking your two links seriously (the last one got eaten) all they’re proposing is just “de-bureaucracing reugulation to just vibes will restore the free market”. How you’re supposed to reconcile that with mean testing without enabling bigoted government employees is beyond me.

These were done pre-covid and it shows.
Hence why they thought the CDC was somehow a good example even when they were at best ill-equipped to actually do their jobs.

[Dimetrodon Empire]

Centrism is right-wing here in the U.S. because we have the Democrats (a center-right party much like the Torries in the UK) and we have the Republicans (A far right party).

If you're an "enlightened centrist" in the United States, congratulations, you're just solidly right-wing and authoritarian.

[Dimetrodon Empire]

Centrism is defined as taking "moderate positions" on issues. However, this is the issue.

Centrists oppose change. They's rather compromise a person's rights than to fight for their liberty. Destroy the planet rather than take action against climate change. Hell, today's genocidal GOP is being praised by centrists; if you laud the GOP's crusade against human rights, progress, and marginalized groups, you're either centrist or rightist.

Also, while a centrist may somewhat support someone's rights, they'd also uphold the institutions that cause inequity. Hence, centrism is a fallacious, complicit conservative ideology.

Overall, centrism is a flawed position due to being a complicit, conservative ideology in disguise.

Yeah no. Depending on what you mean, modern centrism is based on calling for fundamental reforms of institutions that calls for market-based solutions on healthcare, energy and the environment for the public good as well as commitment to institutions for global governance and means-testing of social programs before implementation (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/43 ... m-for-2020, https://bigthink.com/politics-current-a ... n-downfall, http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/po ... eral-party) It also involves trying to equalize spending when it comes to school districts too.

That's what Democrats do, particularly the dominant center-right New Democrats faction.

Halfway between that and the GOP is just solidly right wing.

[Nantoraka]

If you're an "enlightened centrist" in the United States, congratulations, you're just solidly right-wing and authoritarian.

Good god where do people get these ideas

[Port Caverton]

Yeah no. Depending on what you mean, modern centrism is based on calling for fundamental reforms of institutions that calls for market-based solutions on healthcare, energy and the environment for the public good as well as commitment to institutions for global governance and means-testing of social programs before implementation (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/43 ... m-for-2020, https://bigthink.com/politics-current-a ... n-downfall, http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/po ... eral-party) It also involves trying to equalize spending when it comes to school districts too.

That's what Democrats do, particularly the dominant center-right New Democrats faction.

Halfway between that and the GOP is just solidly right wing.

Third Way liberals (the new democrats) are not center-right. They're centrist. Center-right would be someone like Romney