[PASSED] Injunct The Communist Bloc

[El Lazaro]

Based, support.

[Trivalve]

This is very obviously a politically motivated attack that does not accurately present the region and its actions. TCB is cool.

Oh wow, it's like this is a political simulation site!

[Astrobolt]

Absolutely based. Griefers forfeit any regional sovereignty they have. Hopefully one day TCB gets its just deserts.

[Mlakhavia]

Absolutely based. Griefers forfeit any regional sovereignty they have. Hopefully one day TCB gets its just deserts.

"Natives are allowed to be sovereign unless they fall under the way I define 'Griefer', in which case I am allowed to arbitrate their rightful fate." You guys would be *great* raiders if you were just a tiny bit more honest.

[Honeydewistania]

"Jesus, Mary and Joseph, and the wee donkey..."

Line of Duty fan? That’s a Hastings’ line.

Anyway I think I’ll support this one.

I'm interested in one thing and one thing only. And that's catching griefers.

[Malphe II]

Against.

[Cybernetic]

I was under the impression that defenders and their independent allies had considerable consternation over recent events, and that neo-moralism was to be reigned in. The existence of this proposal and its wide support suggests I was mistaken, and that no-one has learned. I know my remarks will have no impact on the impending overwhelming passage of this injunction, so I am merely posting the following for posterity.

No real deprivation of power and means = no real lessons learned.

Punishing independent regions that do not align with certain gameplay-related stances by removing them from participation in certain aspects of the site is what lead to certain individuals being so emboldened as to try strong-arming TNP in the first place, and now that this punishment of indie regions is being allowed to happen again so immediately after the TNP incident, the cycle will repeat once again. We will witness another incident similar to the TNP one in due time, caused by the same kind of players - possibly even the same exact players.

Good luck.

[Rogue River]

Eh, for, TCB did go after my home region before.

[La Xinga]

Som-e good news:


Status: Quorum Reached: In Queue

Perhaps my original fears were unfounded!

[Galactic Powers]

and so the forces of reaction yet again move to encircle and seek to destroy the left. Oh well, us reds are used to that. Anyway thanks for the badge honey <3

Not so fun when its the other side doing it to you, is it.

[Libertia-Columbia]

I concur with the thoughts expressed by Socialist Platypus, DragoAA and others who have expressed concern about the type of precedent this will set.

One of the reasons I'm against it is obviously, I like TCB as a whole. They're not perfect, they have their flaws, but they're pretty chill overall. I'm citizen there via a puppet of mine, and I've gotten to know the folks there, so obviously I would be inclined to defend them against offensive proposals like this.

But we have to consider what this means for the future of injunction proposals. It seems as though the neo-moralists were swift to draft an offensive injunction proposal against TCB, a region that they don't like due to its relations with raiders and their leftist alignment. And, due to the stranglehold that the neo-moralist regions and their fellow travelers have over the WASC, there's a good chance that this will pass. Hell, it's already reached quorum only a few hours after it was submitted.

But while this may be the first offensive injunction, it will not be the last. The neo-moralists and their fellow travelers know they are dominant within the WASC. And these are the types of people who will use the SC as a means to further their political agenda by punishing regions they don't like, who they perceive as having slighted them in some sense. This will not end with TCB. So what's next? Will the neo-moralists next pass through any and all proposals against raider-aligned or even just independent regions that don't kowtow down to them? I wouldn't put it past them to try and monopolize the ability to switch F <-> S for themselves and their allies. This isn't like liberations. Offensive liberations are only de facto effective if the defenders have enough might on their side to raid such regions. And, in the case of regions like, say, TCB, or even some smaller regions, this isn't a valid strategy. Offensive liberations require manpower and time and effort and planning. And that's not to mention that some regions are wary of undertaking offensive liberations regardless of these factors.

But offensive injunctions? All they require to punish the target region is simply being passed within the WASC. Sure, offensive injunctions will likely be used in many cases to prevent regions from transitioning from frontier to stronghold, so that they are open to being raided, but as we can see with this proposal, they can be utilized as a punishment for regions even if raiding them would be impractical (TCB's del Kethania has around ~700 endos - raiding TCB is obviously quite impractical). This is because injunctions prevent people from running the regions how they want to run them. Oh, you want to transition this region into a frontier? Well too bad, injunction! Oh, it'd be nice for your region to be a stronghold, but wanna make sure your WA del is the governor rather than your already CTE'd founder? Well too bad, injunction! This is especially problematic because the entire point of the F/S update is to "radically increase [NS players'] ability to run [their] region the way [they] want." By filing an offensive injunction against a region on the basis that they don't align with you politically, you are preventing them from fully enjoying the fruits of the new F/S update and play the way they want to play due to the opinions of an elite clique of neo-moralists on every action they take.

The neo-moralist usage of offensive injunctions will not stop with TCB. Offensive injunctions are a method of control; they are a way for the neo-moralist establishment to subjugate all other regions even somewhat active in gameplay. We know from the recent TNP blackmail scandal that neo-moralists are willing to stoop to the lows of coercing the largest independent region (and largest region overall) into becoming their lapdogs. Don't think they wouldn't be willing to use the threat of an injunction to effectively subjugate independent UCRs. They will use the threat of injunctions to coerce the independent regions and even defender regions which aren't aligned with neo-moralism into becoming lapdogs for the neo-moralist establishment. And if you don't kowtow, well then, they'll injunct you as a punishment, and potentially as a public example of what happens when you don't play by the rigid ruleset of neo-moralism. If the precedent of utilizing injunctions to punish regions for their alignment is set, the freedom and autonomy of all regions is at risk.

So, to those who are reading this, regardless of whether you are a raider, independent, or anti-neo-moralist defender, even regardless of your personal opinion on TCB, I urge you to vote against this proposal. It may not prevent the neo-moralists from trying their hand at offensive injunctions again, but the NS community as a whole needs to show that they aren't willing to give up their freedom to neo-moralists so easily.

[Mlakhavia]

and so the forces of reaction yet again move to encircle and seek to destroy the left. Oh well, us reds are used to that. Anyway thanks for the badge honey <3

Not so fun when its the other side doing it to you, is it.

It's actually remarkably boring. Nothing will actually change for TCB, at least -- I can confirm that the internal attitude in TCB is one of annoyance, but also one of "bleh, what can you do". This is just a waste of the SC's time.

[Nova Cyanis]

Support obv <3

[Tinhampton]

Absolutely based. Griefers forfeit any regional sovereignty they have. Hopefully one day TCB gets its just deserts.

TCB has some 20,285,052 influence as of this minor (11,532.15 x 1,759, the number of nations it had at minor). Half that number and an occupier delegate would need 10,142,526 influence to banject everyone in TCB right now; nobody in the real world has more than 2.26m influence.

If an outsider were to be somehow elected with 1,120 endorsements (roughly the number of endorsements Hulldom had before he resigned TNP's delegacy) at major update tonight and maintained this forever - assuming 365.25 days in a year - it would take about 12.3857 years to ban everyone but themselves (10,142,526 / ([1,120+1] x 2 x 365.25). That, plus about 0.0548 of a year after that to introduce a secret password (40 x 1,120 = 44,800 influence is needed; with 2,242 influence gain a day, it'll take 20 days).

I'm also assuming that no TCB native will gain influence during this outsider occupation. Taking Kethania's current ~710 influence gain per update as a static average, they'll have gained roughly 6,424,080 influence within the time the outsiders would need for a mass ban. Using the same calculation as above, even if Kethania were the only native to gain influence, their gains alone would necessitate 3.9224 extra years of occupation.

TCB's three vice-delegates have a combined total of 1,305 endoes as of now, which is also a good linear estimate for their 2023 gains so far. The influence-gain equation again suggests they'll rack up 11,834,784 influence in the initial raid period, necessitating 14.4522 more years of occupation (not including Kethania).

This means that, even if only the Delegate and Vice-Delegates gained influence during an imminent occupation of TCB - even if the raiders were to rival TNP in numbers - it would still take them 30.8151 years - 11,255 days - to take down the region. This takes us to February 10th 2054.

There were roughly 30.8 years between Franklin D Roosevelt's inauguration and John F Kennedy's assassination.
There were roughly 30.8 years between D-Day and the fall of Saigon.
There were roughly 30.8 years between the end of the Falklands War and Margaret Thatcher's death.
There were roughly 30.8 years between the collapse of the Tiananmen Square protests in Beijing and the collapse of the Umbrella protests in Hong Kong.
30.8 years ago, John Major had just won re-election, Denmark had just won the European Championship, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System had just come out and the Maastricht Treaty was a month away from being approved. (More than 35% of the global population was also living in extreme poverty; the most recent figures suggest it's closer to 10%.)
30.8 years from now, all developed economies will have either achieved net zero carbon emissions or be well on their way to doing so.

Are you confident that, over the next thirty-one years, public opinion will continue to remain stubbornly against TCB's conversion to a Frontier? That would require unprecedented levels of stability in gameplay by any definition: NS didn't exist 31 years ago and has seen multiple dynamic changes since gameplay started in earnest in 2003.

[Sauros]

Opposed, as the Delegate of a region that TCB once helped invade but is now a strong ally to.

Interesting how everyone seems to have ignored this.

[Qelmar]

OOC:

Opposed. This is busy work and also did not receive input or an extensive drafting process. If you're going to give us crap, at least take your time with it.

My role within TCB, at least for the time being, is not one of a raider. Yes, questions of alignment are relevant, but also, TCB is not the PRAF alone and the PRAF is not the full sum of TCB. I did move to England and support the raider delegates, I won't hide that, but it was pre-joining TCB and more of an individual lark. Within the bloc as of now, I hope to work on GA resolutions and chill, maybe even head into foreign affairs, spread some of the harmony that is obviously lacking in this proposal.

IMO, "neo-moralists" would be better termed "R/D reductionists." The language here is clearly regarding the Bloc as a whole, not just the PRAF (not that I wouldn't object to this tiresome dreck either if it just dealt with or specified that, though these complaints would have less merit). But by all means, let the fenda flair for subtlety and nuance commence /s.

IC:

Alana Zeller marches in, waving the flag of TCB and playing an electropop version of the Qelmari anthem, wearing a T-shirt saying "WE ROCK THE BLOC"

"Hey hey! Ho ho! This injunction's got to go!"

[Galactic Powers]

Not so fun when its the other side doing it to you, is it.

It's actually remarkably boring. Nothing will actually change for TCB, at least -- I can confirm that the internal attitude in TCB is one of annoyance, but also one of "bleh, what can you do". This is just a waste of the SC's time.

This is arguably the most the SC can actually do rn given that there's no raids to liberate rn and C&Cs are useless.

[La Xinga]

OOC:

Opposed. This is busy work and also did not receive input or an extensive drafting process. If you're going to give us crap, at least take your time with it.

In the writer's defense, they only have a 14-day window for their proposal to get drafted, reach a quorum, wait on line for the current proposal and any proposal before it to be voted on, and finally, to receive a majority of WA votes.

[Mlakhavia]

It's actually remarkably boring. Nothing will actually change for TCB, at least -- I can confirm that the internal attitude in TCB is one of annoyance, but also one of "bleh, what can you do". This is just a waste of the SC's time.

This is arguably the most the SC can actually do rn given that there's no raids to liberate rn and C&Cs are useless.

The SC *could* mind its own fucking business, but whatever.

[Qelmar]

SC stick to commendations and condemnations challenge (difficulty level: impossible)

[Galactic Powers]

This is arguably the most the SC can actually do rn given that there's no raids to liberate rn and C&Cs are useless.

The SC *could* mind its own fucking business, but whatever.

Personally, not letting nations found themselves in a raider region seems like a pretty good use of a resolution.

OOC:

Opposed. This is busy work and also did not receive input or an extensive drafting process. If you're going to give us crap, at least take your time with it.

In the writer's defense, they only have a 14-day window for their proposal to get drafted, reach a quorum, wait on line for the current proposal and any proposal before it to be voted on, and finally, to receive a majority of WA votes.

I guess that means if a reactive Injunction happens, its always gonna have to be a pretty quickly made resolution.

[The Acolyte Confederacy]

This is delusional and a dangerous line to advance. We both know if this passes, it won't be the "far right" as the swing votes making it so. They're fringe and disliked by everybody.

TCB has been a favoured pinata of alt-righters on this site for a while, because we're a large, unapologetically leftist region who aren't willing to dance to anyone's tune. A lot of the proposal's initial endorsements are coming from these sorts of people, and I know you guys aren't naive enough to have not factored that into your plans for this proposal. You *know* that a certain demographic are thirsting to have this enacted, like Galiantus up there. This is the company you chose, I'm afraid.

young brother is not out tryna call out people as alt right for their stance on a region in a literal nation roleplay simulator

this is why i dont usually post in stuffs like this

[Heidgaudr]

This is arguably the most the SC can actually do rn given that there's no raids to liberate rn and C&Cs are useless.

The SC *could* mind its own fucking business, but whatever.

Cries of "leave us alone" ring especially hollow when the nominee extensively participates in military gameplay.

[La Xinga]

In the writer's defense, they only have a 14-day window for their proposal to get drafted, reach a quorum, wait on line for the current proposal and any proposal before it to be voted on, and finally, to receive a majority of WA votes.

I guess that means if a reactive Injunction happens, its always gonna have to be a pretty quickly made resolution.

I've asked that here. Nvm, diff question I asked.
But yes, if it appears that many other SC proposals will be submitted, it would have to be drafted very fast to be relevant.

[Mlakhavia]

Personally, not letting nations found themselves in a raider region seems like a pretty good use of a resolution.

This isn't the plan, silly! The plan is to switch to a Frontier so we can switch back to a Stronghold and get Kethania their rightful place as regional governor! Furthermore, TCB is not a raider region -- the policy of raiding right-wing regions and defending left-wing regions is entirely consistent with the ideology of a region called "The Communist Bloc". It is independence. Our current alignment with our *present* friends is because they wholly understand and respect that we'll be fighting them if they ever raid a leftist region. And that's *fine*. If Fendas were willing to accept that we'd be fighting *them* when they tried to lib rightist regions, we might've even remained friends with them!