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by New Temecula » Sun Apr 09, 2023 3:47 pm
by Zukchiva » Sun Apr 09, 2023 4:00 pm
by Westinor » Sun Apr 09, 2023 4:19 pm
Zukchiva wrote:Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.
by Guess and Check » Sun Apr 09, 2023 4:21 pm
Westinor wrote:Zukchiva wrote:Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.
Generally the first accepted/recognizable version of a TRR government that was actually successful as a functioning TRR government was the one post-Kandarin, I believe. Some kind of memory is sparked by this mention, but iirc any attempts under Kandarin resulted to nothing, and perhaps never really were seen as likely to be anything; nonetheless the origins of the current standing government, and one that was democratically elected in the current fashion in my memory, is post-Kandarin.
by Goobergunchia » Sun Apr 09, 2023 7:38 pm
Zukchiva wrote:Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.
by Guess and Check » Sun Apr 09, 2023 8:02 pm
the best democracy :hyper:Goobergunchia wrote:Zukchiva wrote:Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.
If so it was broadly nonfunctional by no later than summer 2009, when TRR's governmental activity was a few of us voting on WA resolutions on the offsite forums. I suppose that does count as technically democratic?
by Cheesy Tots » Sun Apr 09, 2023 8:40 pm
by MANS0N » Sun Apr 09, 2023 9:34 pm
Zukchiva wrote:Support. I think the accomplishments here are generally enough for a regional commend, especially keeping in mind Spiritus's and Europeia's commends.
Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.
by Zukchiva » Sun Apr 09, 2023 9:36 pm
MANS0N wrote:Zukchiva wrote:Support. I think the accomplishments here are generally enough for a regional commend, especially keeping in mind Spiritus's and Europeia's commends.
Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.
Yes, there was, but I don’t think it’s worth mentioning at all. It existed for almost a year and was essentially founded and run entirely by Todd McCloud and Kaver2, alongside other senators. However, it really didn’t do anything at all besides hold the occasional vote. It declined a lot when senators began dropping like flies. Todd McCloud’s forum posts cut off in about November of 2008 re: that government and there were attempts to doctor it up but nothing panned out and the game was already kind of less active as a whole. There’s no known resignation dates or any records of anyone formally vacating their office except for Kaver2 (who resigned to hold elections) yet and the last post related to the government is from April of 2009. It’s safe to say it solely existed due to a few TRR natives wanting a new government after previously attempting one in 2003-2004 with Kandarin appointing Sub-Delegates (Ministers). However, it clearly didn’t work out.
by The Ice States » Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:29 pm
Westinor wrote:...the XYZ and January Accords, which established links between pivotal defender regions of the time like Mordor and Renegade Islands Alliance and displayed TRR’s connection to key allies outside of the defender sphere like the South Pacific and the East Pacific respectively...
by Westinor » Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:42 am
The Ice States wrote:Westinor wrote:...the XYZ and January Accords, which established links between pivotal defender regions of the time like Mordor and Renegade Islands Alliance and displayed TRR’s connection to key allies outside of the defender sphere like the South Pacific and the East Pacific respectively...
Does "respectively" mean that the South Pacific is one of "pivotal defender regions of the time" and the East Pacific is "key allies outside of the defender sphere"? If so, I don't see why the South Pacific is not in the Mordor/RIA list; if not, this should be far clearer.
by The Ice States » Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:58 am
Westinor wrote:The Ice States wrote:Does "respectively" mean that the South Pacific is one of "pivotal defender regions of the time" and the East Pacific is "key allies outside of the defender sphere"? If so, I don't see why the South Pacific is not in the Mordor/RIA list; if not, this should be far clearer.
There's historical context here. January Accords were signed in 2018, when TSP was not a defender region but was getting closer in relations to them; a pivotal one being TRR, thus the separate inclusion - it's important to note that these are "at the time" statements, not a "now" statement. Similarly to how RIA nor Mordor are no longer "pivotal defender regions of the time".
I'm aware the clause itself is a bit confusing in terms of wording, and I'm tackling rewording it in whatever way I can. I'm trying to avoid a split as that would essentially make it a subclause in a subclause, but if it comes to that I will do it. However, I hope this in particular clears up this understanding. This is referring to the time of writing for the treaty, not present day - though the implications are for the present landscape.
by Westinor » Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:16 am
The Ice States wrote:Westinor wrote:There's historical context here. January Accords were signed in 2018, when TSP was not a defender region but was getting closer in relations to them; a pivotal one being TRR, thus the separate inclusion - it's important to note that these are "at the time" statements, not a "now" statement. Similarly to how RIA nor Mordor are no longer "pivotal defender regions of the time".
I'm aware the clause itself is a bit confusing in terms of wording, and I'm tackling rewording it in whatever way I can. I'm trying to avoid a split as that would essentially make it a subclause in a subclause, but if it comes to that I will do it. However, I hope this in particular clears up this understanding. This is referring to the time of writing for the treaty, not present day - though the implications are for the present landscape.
Would removing "respectively" substantively change the intent of the wording? If not, I think removing the word would help a lot here.
by Coregia » Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:56 am
by Sedgistan » Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:27 am
MANS0N wrote:Zukchiva wrote:Support. I think the accomplishments here are generally enough for a regional commend, especially keeping in mind Spiritus's and Europeia's commends.
Don't have any specific feedback, although I do wonder at the mention of TRR's first democratic government. I think MASON recently stated there was a short lived 2008 one on TRR's forums (iirc? i forgor), so may be worth checking out.
Yes, there was, but I don’t think it’s worth mentioning at all. It existed for almost a year and was essentially founded and run entirely by Todd McCloud and Kaver2, alongside other senators. However, it really didn’t do anything at all besides hold the occasional vote. It declined a lot when senators began dropping like flies. Todd McCloud’s forum posts cut off in about November of 2008 re: that government and there were attempts to doctor it up but nothing panned out and the game was already kind of less active as a whole. There’s no known resignation dates or any records of anyone formally vacating their office except for Kaver2 (who resigned to hold elections) yet and the last post related to the government is from April of 2009. It’s safe to say it solely existed due to a few TRR natives wanting a new government after previously attempting one in 2003-2004 with Kandarin appointing Sub-Delegates (Ministers). However, it clearly didn’t work out.
by MANS0N » Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:36 pm
Sedgistan wrote:MANS0N wrote:
Yes, there was, but I don’t think it’s worth mentioning at all. It existed for almost a year and was essentially founded and run entirely by Todd McCloud and Kaver2, alongside other senators. However, it really didn’t do anything at all besides hold the occasional vote. It declined a lot when senators began dropping like flies. Todd McCloud’s forum posts cut off in about November of 2008 re: that government and there were attempts to doctor it up but nothing panned out and the game was already kind of less active as a whole. There’s no known resignation dates or any records of anyone formally vacating their office except for Kaver2 (who resigned to hold elections) yet and the last post related to the government is from April of 2009. It’s safe to say it solely existed due to a few TRR natives wanting a new government after previously attempting one in 2003-2004 with Kandarin appointing Sub-Delegates (Ministers). However, it clearly didn’t work out.
Not quite. It was notorious Fox Rite region griefer Todd McCloud bringing a load of friends in to give an air of legitimacy while he endo-swapped his way to an attempted coup of the delegacy. He was within a whisker of taking it too, but the FRA helped defend the region, and eventually Todd gave up, reformed, and made a properly democratic tilt at a GCR delegacy in TEP.
Todd might have turned out okay later on, but at the time he was known solely for burning regions to the ground. His posse of entryists were anything but democratic. There was no native support for him.
by Todd McCloud » Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:01 pm
Sedgistan wrote:MANS0N wrote:
Yes, there was, but I don’t think it’s worth mentioning at all. It existed for almost a year and was essentially founded and run entirely by Todd McCloud and Kaver2, alongside other senators. However, it really didn’t do anything at all besides hold the occasional vote. It declined a lot when senators began dropping like flies. Todd McCloud’s forum posts cut off in about November of 2008 re: that government and there were attempts to doctor it up but nothing panned out and the game was already kind of less active as a whole. There’s no known resignation dates or any records of anyone formally vacating their office except for Kaver2 (who resigned to hold elections) yet and the last post related to the government is from April of 2009. It’s safe to say it solely existed due to a few TRR natives wanting a new government after previously attempting one in 2003-2004 with Kandarin appointing Sub-Delegates (Ministers). However, it clearly didn’t work out.
Not quite. It was notorious Fox Rite region griefer Todd McCloud bringing a load of friends in to give an air of legitimacy while he endo-swapped his way to an attempted coup of the delegacy. He was within a whisker of taking it too, but the FRA helped defend the region, and eventually Todd gave up, reformed, and made a properly democratic tilt at a GCR delegacy in TEP.
Todd might have turned out okay later on, but at the time he was known solely for burning regions to the ground. His posse of entryists were anything but democratic. There was no native support for him.
by Catalyse » Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:47 am
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