Left-wing Extremism: A "Diversity" of Tactics

[PokemonGirl]

The horseshoe theory is Liberals projecting their long history of collaboration with Fascists onto the Left. It's bunk.

I'm unironically neo-lib and I can tel ya fascists are just crybaby incels. Than again that's how I see communists too.

In fact pretty much anyone who isn't me I basically see as Ricky Berwick spinning around on his scooter thing praising moderators despite how everything they do is criminal and just spraying shit in every direction.

[American Legionaries]

Cisgender heteronormative social views are hardly new.

Creating a panic about 'grooming' that is a threat to cishet supremacy is new.

Yes, the objection to certain lessons being taught happened after those lessons began being taught. Given that the 'reactionaries' don't have time machines, the alternative seems foolish to expect.

[Nilokeras]

Creating a panic about 'grooming' that is a threat to cishet supremacy is new.

Yes, the objection to certain lessons being taught happened after those lessons began being taught. Given that the 'reactionaries' don't have time machines, the alternative seems foolish to expect.

The 'grooming' panic is not generally about anything in the curriculum at all. The American education being as conservative and staid as it is, change doesn't happen quickly. The freakout is about the 'pastoral' care teachers do as part of their role as major figures in kids' lives: about what they should do if kids ask about their own status as being an LGBT person, about what to do if someone discloses their own status to teachers. That aspect of teaching is not new either. What is new is the panic about how teachers doing this sort of 'pastoral' care are 'grooming' children by doing things like not telling their homophobic parents about their struggles with their identity.

[The Proud Transphobe]

Yes, and yet now there is. Because people dislike their students being indoctrinated with beliefs they object to.

Which is a innovation in reactionary ideology, yes. New objections, and a new vigour in demanding curricula or even teacher composition change. As I said.

"innovation in reactionary ideology"... what BS is this? This has basically been a thing for THOUSANDS of years, possibly as long as we've had civilization. Do you know why? Because taking other people's children and indoctrinating them against the ideas of their parents is what conquerors did. What's happening in public schools is colonization and purposeful destruction of culture by a hostile, extreme ideology.

[PokemonGirl]

The 'grooming' panic is not generally about anything in the curriculum at all. The American education being as conservative and staid as it is, change doesn't happen quickly. The freakout is about the 'pastoral' care teachers do as part of their role as major figures in kids' lives: about what they should do if kids ask about their own status as being an LGBT person, about what to do if someone discloses their own status to teachers. That aspect of teaching is not new either. What is new is the panic about how teachers doing this sort of 'pastoral' care are 'grooming' children by doing things like not telling their homophobic parents about their struggles with their identity.

You can't be talking about western schools. Teachers in western schools are basically glorified prison guards. Better unions too and all just to abuse kids. The conservatives are right school is bad but it's a systemic problem not just this or that. School should just be abolished entirely.

And no-one is getting groomed. People aren't based enough to do the ok boomer girl meme but with grooming lol. Is grooming specifically sexual too? Cause like it could be argued we're all groomed constantly to not respect ourselves, ask for anything, and just suffer needlessly.

[Nilokeras]

Which is a innovation in reactionary ideology, yes. New objections, and a new vigour in demanding curricula or even teacher composition change. As I said.

"innovation in reactionary ideology"... what BS is this? This has basically been a thing for THOUSANDS of years, possibly as long as we've had civilization. Do you know why? Because taking other people's children and indoctrinating them against the ideas of their parents is what conquerors did. What's happening in public schools is colonization and purposeful destruction of culture by a hostile, extreme ideology.

See there's the innovation - construing inclusive practices that have been going on in some places for more than a decade as a 'hostile extreme ideology'.

[Necroghastia]

Which is a innovation in reactionary ideology, yes. New objections, and a new vigour in demanding curricula or even teacher composition change. As I said.

"innovation in reactionary ideology"... what BS is this? This has basically been a thing for THOUSANDS of years, possibly as long as we've had civilization. Do you know why? Because taking other people's children and indoctrinating them against the ideas of their parents is what conquerors did. What's happening in public schools is colonization and purposeful destruction of culture by a hostile, extreme ideology.

Do you hold the same position for evolution? Heliocentrism? Round-earth? Women's rights? Racial equality? Modern medicine and germ theory? Are those also hostile and extreme culture-destroyers?

[The Proud Transphobe]

"innovation in reactionary ideology"... what BS is this? This has basically been a thing for THOUSANDS of years, possibly as long as we've had civilization. Do you know why? Because taking other people's children and indoctrinating them against the ideas of their parents is what conquerors did. What's happening in public schools is colonization and purposeful destruction of culture by a hostile, extreme ideology.

Do you hold the same position for evolution? Heliocentrism? Round-earth? Women's rights? Racial equality? Modern medicine and germ theory? Are those also hostile and extreme culture-destroyers?

Not that any of those are relevant to the discussion at hand (leftists have a bad habit of being unable to stay on-topic), but your selection of scientific discoveries and liberal ideas in this context only makes sense if you are voluntarily conceding that I support all of them. And I do support all those points, by the way, I just doubt the ability of most leftists to take me saying that in any form of good faith.

[Bewaffnete Krafte]

You can't be talking about western schools. Teachers in western schools are basically glorified prison guards. Better unions too and all just to abuse kids. The conservatives are right school is bad but it's a systemic problem not just this or that. School should just be abolished entirely.

And no-one is getting groomed. People aren't based enough to do the ok boomer girl meme but with grooming lol. Is grooming specifically sexual too? Cause like it could be argued we're all groomed constantly to not respect ourselves, ask for anything, and just suffer needlessly.

idk i had a lot of great teachers so

[Picairn]

I’d like to remind you that the damage done during the January 6th capitol storming was mostly trash and overturned furniture. Compare that to all the buildings burnt in the blm riots, all the homes destroyed.

Did you not read my post at all?

[Necroghastia]

Do you hold the same position for evolution? Heliocentrism? Round-earth? Women's rights? Racial equality? Modern medicine and germ theory? Are those also hostile and extreme culture-destroyers?

Not that any of those are relevant to the discussion at hand (leftists have a bad habit of being unable to stay on-topic)

Au contraire, they are very relevant. How does your argument not apply to the child of a young-earth creationist being taught evolution, or the child of a white supremacist being taught that all persons are equal?

[Ors Might]

Are we going to pretend that there aren't parents that would abuse their children if they identified as part of the LGBT? If a child confides in their teacher and asks them to not tell their parents out of fear of abuse, then that teacher has a moral obligation to keep their student's secret.

[The Proud Transphobe]

Not that any of those are relevant to the discussion at hand (leftists have a bad habit of being unable to stay on-topic)

Au contraire, they are very relevant. How does your argument not apply to the child of a young-earth creationist being taught evolution, or the child of a white supremacist being taught that all persons are equal?

Well since you weren't explicit about your point it seemed like you were trying to draw a connection between parental rights and those things. But in the context of teaching pretty much anything in public schools, I don't object to that application of my position. It is wrong to try and indoctrinate a child to a particular way of thinking without the parent's knowledge or permission. There should always be a clear way to opt out. And it doesn't matter what the idea is: the Bible holds as much relevance to the job of a school as a book designed to convince children they are trans - zip, zilch, zero, nada. Absolutely none of it belongs in the classroom unless the parent is informed and consents to it.

[Necroghastia]

Au contraire, they are very relevant. How does your argument not apply to the child of a young-earth creationist being taught evolution, or the child of a white supremacist being taught that all persons are equal?

Well since you weren't explicit about your point it seemed like you were trying to draw a connection between parental rights and those things. But in the context of teaching pretty much anything in public schools, I don't object to that application of my position. It is wrong to try and indoctrinate a child to a particular way of thinking without the parent's knowledge or permission.

Personally, I'd prefer kids be taught facts, parent's permission or not. Again, it is not wrong to teach things like racial equality to the child of a white supremacist, or evolution to the child of a young-earth creationist.

There should always be a clear way to opt out. And it doesn't matter what the idea is: the Bible holds as much relevance to the job of a school as a book designed to convince children they are trans - zip, zilch, zero, nada.

This is true, but not for the reason you might think - the Bible holds no relevance because schools should teach empirical fact. The book you describe holds no relevance because it does not exist in the first place.

[The Proud Transphobe]

Well since you weren't explicit about your point it seemed like you were trying to draw a connection between parental rights and those things. But in the context of teaching pretty much anything in public schools, I don't object to that application of my position. It is wrong to try and indoctrinate a child to a particular way of thinking without the parent's knowledge or permission.

Personally, I'd prefer kids be taught facts, parent's permission or not. Again, it is not wrong to teach things like racial equality to the child of a white supremacist, or evolution to the child of a young-earth creationist.

Let me put it this way: if your idea of winning a cultural argument involves deception and the exploitation of young, vulnerable minds you have no responsibility for, that is disgusting. It is really dirty tactics. If you want to win hearts and minds you should do it honestly, out in the open. Other people's children should not be your pawns in any kind of battle of ideas.

[Necroghastia]

Personally, I'd prefer kids be taught facts, parent's permission or not. Again, it is not wrong to teach things like racial equality to the child of a white supremacist, or evolution to the child of a young-earth creationist.

Let me put it this way: if your idea of winning a cultural argument involves deception and the exploitation of young, vulnerable minds you have no responsibility for, that is disgusting. It is really dirty tactics. If you want to win hearts and minds you should do it honestly, out in the open. Other people's children should not be your pawns in any kind of battle of ideas.

jesse what the fuck are you talking about

[Ors Might]

Personally, I'd prefer kids be taught facts, parent's permission or not. Again, it is not wrong to teach things like racial equality to the child of a white supremacist, or evolution to the child of a young-earth creationist.

Let me put it this way: if your idea of winning a cultural argument involves deception and the exploitation of young, vulnerable minds you have no responsibility for, that is disgusting. It is really dirty tactics. If you want to win hearts and minds you should do it honestly, out in the open. Other people's children should not be your pawns in any kind of battle of ideas.

And people shouldn't be allowed to emotionally manipulate and abuse vulnerable children into believing objective falsehoods.

[Bovad]

Let me put it this way: if your idea of winning a cultural argument involves deception and the exploitation of young, vulnerable minds you have no responsibility for, that is disgusting. It is really dirty tactics. If you want to win hearts and minds you should do it honestly, out in the open. Other people's children should not be your pawns in any kind of battle of ideas.

And people shouldn't be allowed to emotionally manipulate and abuse vulnerable children into believing objective falsehoods.

Religon would die out as a whole in a generation or two.

[Napaqaq]

Let me put it this way: if your idea of winning a cultural argument involves deception and the exploitation of young, vulnerable minds you have no responsibility for, that is disgusting. It is really dirty tactics. If you want to win hearts and minds you should do it honestly, out in the open. Other people's children should not be your pawns in any kind of battle of ideas.

And people shouldn't be allowed to emotionally manipulate and abuse vulnerable children into believing objective falsehoods.

There isn’t exactly a right or wrong I would say.

It all boils down to social norms and what’s taboo and what’s not.

I personally believe we’re moving away from a more traditional set of morals to a more “neo-moralistic” society in which acceptance and diversity or ethnicity, race, and sexuality are valued over sexual abstinence and being modest.

I don’t really have a concrete set of beliefs, but all I do is follow my heart, you know?

I do feel disenfranchised by the ideological extremes that are present within our contemporary society to the point in which I don’t follow a set of political views, but a set of philosophical guidelines.

[The Proud Transphobe]

Let me put it this way: if your idea of winning a cultural argument involves deception and the exploitation of young, vulnerable minds you have no responsibility for, that is disgusting. It is really dirty tactics. If you want to win hearts and minds you should do it honestly, out in the open. Other people's children should not be your pawns in any kind of battle of ideas.

jesse what the fuck are you talking about

Well since you weren't explicit about your point it seemed like you were trying to draw a connection between parental rights and those things. But in the context of teaching pretty much anything in public schools, I don't object to that application of my position. It is wrong to try and indoctrinate a child to a particular way of thinking without the parent's knowledge or permission.

Personally, I'd prefer kids be taught facts,

Parents will claim their position aligns with the facts, and your position doesn't.

parent's permission or not.

Why does your position trump that of the parents? That child wouldn't exist without his or her parents. Between you or a parent, a parent has more of a right to teach their child their beliefs than you do. If you feel so passionately about teaching children particular ideas, maybe you should adopt some.

Again, it is not wrong to teach things like racial equality to the child of a white supremacist, or evolution to the child of a young-earth creationist.

So you'd advocate feeding porkchops to a Muslim or Jewish kid, because "it's safe to eat and them's the facts"? Don't get me wrong - I understand what you are trying to get at, but if you want to promote ideas about equality or science you shouldn't be doing it in secret, without the parent's knowledge, and without their consent. Get the parents on your side first, because doing it any other way is dishonest.

[Napaqaq]

Are we going to pretend that there aren't parents that would abuse their children if they identified as part of the LGBT? If a child confides in their teacher and asks them to not tell their parents out of fear of abuse, then that teacher has a moral obligation to keep their student's secret.

I in fact know a few people who’s parents would starve them and neglect them if they were to come out to them.

My ex was pansexual and she was deathly afraid of telling her parents. They already hated her because she was missing an arm and her body type.

[Khurkhogur]

I'm unironically neo-lib and I can tel ya fascists are just crybaby incels. Than again that's how I see communists too.
In fact pretty much anyone who isn't me I basically see as Ricky Berwick spinning around on his scooter thing praising moderators despite how everything they do is criminal and just spraying shit in every direction.

You're so quirky and interesting and not an edgy Port Caverton clone

[Necroghastia]

jesse what the fuck are you talking about

Personally, I'd prefer kids be taught facts,

Parents will claim their position aligns with the facts, and your position doesn't.

parent's permission or not.

Why does your position trump that of the parents? That child wouldn't exist without his or her parents. Between you or a parent, a parent has more of a right to teach their child their beliefs than you do. If you feel so passionately about teaching children particular ideas, maybe you should adopt some.

Again, it is not wrong to teach things like racial equality to the child of a white supremacist, or evolution to the child of a young-earth creationist.

So you'd advocate feeding porkchops to a Muslim or Jewish kid, because "it's safe to eat and them's the facts"? Don't get me wrong - I understand what you are trying to get at, but if you want to promote ideas about equality or science you shouldn't be doing it in secret, without the parent's knowledge, and without their consent. Get the parents on your side first, because doing it any other way is dishonest.

To reiterate:
Jesse.
What the fuck.
Are you talking about.
You're going to all these bizarre, nonsensical lengths to justify... forcefully outing minors to abusive parents. What the hell?

[Napaqaq]

jesse what the fuck are you talking about

Personally, I'd prefer kids be taught facts,

Parents will claim their position aligns with the facts, and your position doesn't.

parent's permission or not.

Why does your position trump that of the parents? That child wouldn't exist without his or her parents. Between you or a parent, a parent has more of a right to teach their child their beliefs than you do. If you feel so passionately about teaching children particular ideas, maybe you should adopt some.

Again, it is not wrong to teach things like racial equality to the child of a white supremacist, or evolution to the child of a young-earth creationist.

So you'd advocate feeding porkchops to a Muslim or Jewish kid, because "it's safe to eat and them's the facts"? Don't get me wrong - I understand what you are trying to get at, but if you want to promote ideas about equality or science you shouldn't be doing it in secret, without the parent's knowledge, and without their consent. Get the parents on your side first, because doing it any other way is dishonest.

Your argument makes no sense, man.

I can see what you’re trying to prove.

But it’s not a strong argument.

[The Proud Transphobe]

Parents will claim their position aligns with the facts, and your position doesn't.


Why does your position trump that of the parents? That child wouldn't exist without his or her parents. Between you or a parent, a parent has more of a right to teach their child their beliefs than you do. If you feel so passionately about teaching children particular ideas, maybe you should adopt some.


So you'd advocate feeding porkchops to a Muslim or Jewish kid, because "it's safe to eat and them's the facts"? Don't get me wrong - I understand what you are trying to get at, but if you want to promote ideas about equality or science you shouldn't be doing it in secret, without the parent's knowledge, and without their consent. Get the parents on your side first, because doing it any other way is dishonest.

To reiterate:
Jesse.
What the fuck.
Are you talking about.
You're going to all these bizarre, nonsensical lengths to justify... forcefully outing minors to abusive parents. What the hell?

It's amazing how difficult it is to stay on topic with you. I've argued that we shouldn't be teaching children stuff without the knowledge and consent of their parents (curriculum), and here you are going on about outing them? That's a completely different topic. How about you tell me why you think children should be taught certain subject matters in secret from their parents?