by Thomasi » Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:52 pm
by Galloism » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:13 pm
by Thomasi » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:19 pm
Galloism wrote:You do realize the 14th amendment was a super amendment to the constitution, taking all the previous rights amendments that bound the federal government and applied them to the states, yes?
by Galloism » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:22 pm
Thomasi wrote:Galloism wrote:You do realize the 14th amendment was a super amendment to the constitution, taking all the previous rights amendments that bound the federal government and applied them to the states, yes?
No it didn't the incorporation doctrine is bullshit it simply required states to treat everyone the same under the law without regard for race or citizenship status. It did not require states to apply the bill of rights.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States
by South Olpen » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:23 pm
Thomasi wrote:Galloism wrote:You do realize the 14th amendment was a super amendment to the constitution, taking all the previous rights amendments that bound the federal government and applied them to the states, yes?
No it didn't the incorporation doctrine is bullshit it simply required states to treat everyone the same under the law without regard for race or citizenship status. It did not require states to apply the bill of rights.
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by Untecna » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:31 pm
by Thomasi » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:31 pm
Galloism wrote:Thomasi wrote:
No it didn't the incorporation doctrine is bullshit it simply required states to treat everyone the same under the law without regard for race or citizenship status. It did not require states to apply the bill of rights.All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States
What does that say about states abridging the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States?
by Thomasi » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:35 pm
SOUTH OLPEN wrote:Thomasi wrote:
No it didn't the incorporation doctrine is bullshit it simply required states to treat everyone the same under the law without regard for race or citizenship status. It did not require states to apply the bill of rights.
My brother in Jesus Christ almighty, did you just argue against the bill of rights? And furthermore, are you saying states can strike out the 2nd and ban firearms for they do not need to apply the bill of rights?
by South Olpen » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:37 pm
Thomasi wrote:SOUTH OLPEN wrote:My brother in Jesus Christ almighty, did you just argue against the bill of rights? And furthermore, are you saying states can strike out the 2nd and ban firearms for they do not need to apply the bill of rights?
The bill of rights was explicitly made to restrict the federal government, the bill or rights nor any amendment is even mentioned in the 14th amendment. If they wanted the bill of rights to apply to the states they would have said that. but they didn't because many states were founded on the bases of specific sects of Christianity and they damn sure weren't going to give up that and become secular.
The 14th amendment was about making former slaves citizens, and striking down Dred Scott.
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by Thomasi » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:37 pm
Untecna wrote:Y'know, I get a suspicion that this has nothing to do with States and the 10th Amendment, but all to do with the regulation of firearms, which is not denied by the 2nd Amendment.
It says it shall not be abridged; regulation does not remove that right.
by Thomasi » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:39 pm
SOUTH OLPEN wrote:Thomasi wrote:
The bill of rights was explicitly made to restrict the federal government, the bill or rights nor any amendment is even mentioned in the 14th amendment. If they wanted the bill of rights to apply to the states they would have said that. but they didn't because many states were founded on the bases of specific sects of Christianity and they damn sure weren't going to give up that and become secular.
The 14th amendment was about making former slaves citizens, and striking down Dred Scott.
Please answer the question at hand; do you believe states should be forced to have the national bill of right, or any, and if not are you hypocritical another to argue that the 2nd is different.
by South Olpen » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:41 pm
Thomasi wrote:SOUTH OLPEN wrote:Please answer the question at hand; do you believe states should be forced to have the national bill of right, or any, and if not are you hypocritical another to argue that the 2nd is different.
No I do not think the bill of rights should apply to the states, "due process of law" I think grants everyone a fair trial but other then that nope nada.
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by Untecna » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:41 pm
Thomasi wrote:SOUTH OLPEN wrote:Please answer the question at hand; do you believe states should be forced to have the national bill of right, or any, and if not are you hypocritical another to argue that the 2nd is different.
No I do not think the bill of rights should apply to the states, "due process of law" I think grants everyone a fair trial but other then that nope nada.
by Thomasi » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:45 pm
Untecna wrote:Thomasi wrote:
No I do not think the bill of rights should apply to the states, "due process of law" I think grants everyone a fair trial but other then that nope nada.
So you wish for States to make it possible to violate the personal freedoms and limitations that have allowed the very basis of freedom in this country to just, disappear?
You don't seem to understand the consequences of such actions, yet you ask for an invitation to allow States to create their own dictatorships.
by South Olpen » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:47 pm
Thomasi wrote:Untecna wrote:So you wish for States to make it possible to violate the personal freedoms and limitations that have allowed the very basis of freedom in this country to just, disappear?
You don't seem to understand the consequences of such actions, yet you ask for an invitation to allow States to create their own dictatorships.
Yes I understand, elections would still happen as we have 5 amendments that mention the right to vote, states are supposed to run like countries with minimal interference from the federal government.
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by Thomasi » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:49 pm
SOUTH OLPEN wrote:Thomasi wrote:
Yes I understand, elections would still happen as we have 5 amendments that mention the right to vote, states are supposed to run like countries with minimal interference from the federal government.
Dear friend, you just argued that " I do not think the bill of rights should apply to the states... nope nada" May I remind you the 5 freedoms I and Utecna mentioned are indeed in the bill of rights which should be "nope nada." The two options I see are either accept some red states will become dictatorships or abandon your stance.
by South Olpen » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:50 pm
Thomasi wrote:SOUTH OLPEN wrote:Dear friend, you just argued that " I do not think the bill of rights should apply to the states... nope nada" May I remind you the 5 freedoms I and Utecna mentioned are indeed in the bill of rights which should be "nope nada." The two options I see are either accept some red states will become dictatorships or abandon your stance.
I accept that they will become dictatorships in all but name but not my problem lol. My state will be just fine. Out of sight (not affecting my life) out of mind.
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by Untecna » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:51 pm
Thomasi wrote:Untecna wrote:So you wish for States to make it possible to violate the personal freedoms and limitations that have allowed the very basis of freedom in this country to just, disappear?
You don't seem to understand the consequences of such actions, yet you ask for an invitation to allow States to create their own dictatorships.
Yes I understand, elections would still happen as we have 5 amendments that mention the right to vote, states are supposed to run like countries with minimal interference from the federal government.
by FNU » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:53 pm
Thomasi wrote:SOUTH OLPEN wrote:Dear friend, you just argued that " I do not think the bill of rights should apply to the states... nope nada" May I remind you the 5 freedoms I and Utecna mentioned are indeed in the bill of rights which should be "nope nada." The two options I see are either accept some red states will become dictatorships or abandon your stance.
I accept that they will become dictatorships in all but name but not my problem lol. My state will be just fine. Out of sight (not affecting my life) out of mind.
by Untecna » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:56 pm
by Thomasi » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:04 pm
Untecna wrote:OP has essentially no understanding of the Bill of Rights, clearly, if they are asking for its removal.
by Untecna » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:06 pm
Thomasi wrote:Untecna wrote:OP has essentially no understanding of the Bill of Rights, clearly, if they are asking for its removal.
I fully understand and the fact of the matter is that I personally think my state would be better off not shackled by the bill of rights, what I think would change is spreading anti vaccine bullshit would be punished, firearms probably fully banned and police would use be allowed to use mass surveillance to fix the issues in Baltimore (which the federal district court struck down 7-6 it was a drone surveillance program that they were going to use to find and track down people with illegal weapons or who had warrants).
Some states would become theocracies, some would be flourishing democracies, and others would be oligarchies. Don't like your states policies move, no need to go though immigration customs.
FNU wrote:Thomasi wrote:
I accept that they will become dictatorships in all but name but not my problem lol. My state will be just fine. Out of sight (not affecting my life) out of mind.
Yes, because your charismatic and politically correctly minded leaders are far better then their repugnant and wrongly minded dictators, and could never turn into those evil men.
by Informed Consent » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:08 pm
Thomasi wrote:The United States desperately needs federal judges who will enforce the 10th amendment The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
by FNU » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:10 pm
Thomasi wrote:Untecna wrote:OP has essentially no understanding of the Bill of Rights, clearly, if they are asking for its removal.
I fully understand and the fact of the matter is that I personally think my state would be better off not shackled by the bill of rights, what I think would change is spreading anti vaccine bullshit would be punished, firearms probably fully banned and police would use be allowed to use mass surveillance to fix the issues in Baltimore (which the federal district court struck down 7-6 it was a drone surveillance program that they were going to use to find and track down people with illegal weapons or who had warrants).
Some states would become theocracies, some would be flourishing democracies, and others would be oligarchies. Don't like your states policies move, no need to go though immigration customs.
by Galloism » Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:15 pm
SOUTH OLPEN wrote:Thomasi wrote:
No it didn't the incorporation doctrine is bullshit it simply required states to treat everyone the same under the law without regard for race or citizenship status. It did not require states to apply the bill of rights.
My brother in Jesus Christ almighty, did you just argue against the bill of rights? And furthermore, are you saying states can strike out the 2nd and ban firearms for they do not need to apply the bill of rights?
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