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UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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The proposals to end the BBC licence fee agreement are:

An excellent idea; the socialists at the BBC have leeched off the British public for far too long.
48
18%
An idea I'm open to discussing, though I have reservations about the timing and the specifics.
15
6%
A bad idea as framed; I'm open to reform of BBC funding, but not like this, and not now.
28
11%
A terrible idea that the government is using to advance a cynical culture war agenda to save Johnson's skin.
80
30%
I have an altar to Sir David Attenborough in my living room and have watched every episode of Dr Who.
25
9%
Wait... you Brits actually have to pay for a TV licence?
68
26%
 
Total votes : 264

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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:03 pm

San Lumen wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-61035623

Labour loses control of High Peak Borough Council after by-election


Not too much of a problem, they will have some support from the Greens and Lib Dems while governing as a minority.

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West Bromwich Holme
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Postby West Bromwich Holme » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:04 am

The papers are claiming NHS chiefs want a return to masks and limits on indoor mixing.

Daily Mail

I would never want a return to those sort of things; rule of six etc. and pubs/restaurants closed. COVID made me realize partially that when I eat out, it's often at chain-store restaurants and I haven't spent much at independent ones, although I do visit independent shops.

This guy claims to be a doctor but it suggests a Russian or Chinese troll farm or some sort of paid agitator. I've seen him under the names Brian McPratt and others calling for a FULL AUSTRALIAN-STYLE NATIONAL LOCKDOWN NOW!!

I think those who lived through the Australian lockdowns would agree it was a good thing, they were as severe as China's.

I wonder how often people are recorded as dying of Covid not with Covid, since there's a distnction between those two isn't there?

Do you think fears of a fourth lockdown are still justified?

This opinion piece in The Sun probably doesn't reflect what many people are thinking.
Last edited by West Bromwich Holme on Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:36 am

West Bromwich Holme wrote:The papers are claiming NHS chiefs want a return to masks and limits on indoor mixing.

Daily Mail

I would never want a return to those sort of things; rule of six etc. and pubs/restaurants closed. COVID made me realize partially that when I eat out, it's often at chain-store restaurants and I haven't spent much at independent ones, although I do visit independent shops.

This guy claims to be a doctor but it suggests a Russian or Chinese troll farm or some sort of paid agitator. I've seen him under the names Brian McPratt and others calling for a FULL AUSTRALIAN-STYLE NATIONAL LOCKDOWN NOW!!

I think those who lived through the Australian lockdowns would agree it was a good thing, they were as severe as China's.

I wonder how often people are recorded as dying of Covid not with Covid, since there's a distnction between those two isn't there?

Do you think fears of a fourth lockdown are still justified?

This opinion piece in The Sun probably doesn't reflect what many people are thinking.


Do you have sources other than the Daily Mail and The Sun?
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West Bromwich Holme
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Postby West Bromwich Holme » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:39 am

Vassenor wrote:
Do you have sources other than the Daily Mail and The Sun?


The Times, which is paywalled: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-chiefs-want-new-covid-curbs-infections-latest-omicron-hncc8qxnk

Also, https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covid-cases-high-uk-jenny-harries-face-masks-indoor-public-transport-shops-omicron-b991759.html, the Evening Standard.

Not much on the issue across other sites AFAIK.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:52 am

I wonder how often people are recorded as dying of Covid not with Covid, since there's a distnction between those two isn't there?


COVID-19 deaths are those deaths registered in England and Wales in the stated week where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate. A doctor can certify the involvement of COVID-19 based on symptoms and clinical findings – a positive test result is not required. Definitions of COVID-19 for deaths in Scotland and Northern Ireland are similar to England and Wales.


"Dying with" is a fiction people came up with to try and claim the numbers are wrong.
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Hirota
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Postby Hirota » Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:28 am

West Bromwich Holme wrote:I wonder how often people are recorded as dying of Covid not with Covid, since there's a distnction between those two isn't there?
This is probably the best summary of how those two distinctions are applied, and how common Covid was recorded on the death certificate as the underlying cause of death (emphasis my own).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transpar ... ertificate

When a person dies, in most cases a doctor writes a medical certificate of cause of death (MCCD) which is then recorded in the death registration (at a local authority registration office). The details are printed out as the official 'death certificate' for the next of kin. The same information is sent electronically from the registration office to ONS for us to produce statistics about causes of death.

The doctor or coroner certifying a death can record more than one health condition or event on the form. The medical certificate of cause of death has two parts, Part 1 contains the sequence of health conditions or events leading directly to death, while Part 2 can contain other health conditions that contributed to the death but were not part of the direct sequence. For statistical purposes one of the health conditions on the certificate is chosen as the 'underlying cause of death'. The underlying cause of death is defined as the health condition or event that started the train of events leading to death and is worked out according to rules from the World Health Organisation (WHO). COVID-19 is the underlying cause of death in around 92% of deaths where it was mentioned on the death certificate.


So whilst Covid is largely the underlying cause of death (in 92% of deaths where Covid was mentioned), the only fiction at play here is Vassenors claim that it is a fabrication. The UK applied a standard to it consistent with WHO's standards.

The problem here is that whilst the UK was generally pretty good at reporting Covid as a cause of death (underlying or contributory), other countries were not, which is why some groups were using excess deaths as a metric to try and get a ballpark figure for covid deaths.

West Bromwich Holme wrote:Do you think fears of a fourth lockdown are still justified?
If a variant comes out which shows signs of leading to a greater loss of life, yes.

As for the masks and lockdown part - I still wear a mask when I'm in a supermarket, and it doesn't cost me anything to wear it, but I appreciate other people might not feel the same.
Last edited by Hirota on Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:01 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:43 pm

The nonce has been found guilty of being a nonce.

Crispin Blunt MP has released a statement in defence of that nonce.
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Glevenschester
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Postby Glevenschester » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:51 pm

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:The nonce has been found guilty of being a nonce.

Crispin Blunt MP has released a statement in defence of that nonce.

Who is the nonce?

Sorry when I Google “nonce MP” like 5 deceased MPs came up.
So which MP do you mean?
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Nationalist Northumbria
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Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:02 pm

Glevenschester wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:The nonce has been found guilty of being a nonce.

Crispin Blunt MP has released a statement in defence of that nonce.

Who is the nonce?

Sorry when I Google “nonce MP” like 5 deceased MPs came up.
So which MP do you mean?

Imran Ahmad Khan. It's been all over the news.
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Glevenschester
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Postby Glevenschester » Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:06 pm

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Glevenschester wrote:Who is the nonce?

Sorry when I Google “nonce MP” like 5 deceased MPs came up.
So which MP do you mean?

Imran Ahmad Khan. It's been all over the news.

Glad they expelled him.
Last edited by Glevenschester on Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:35 pm

In the event of an election being held today, the constituency of Wakefield would vote...

Labour GAIN from Conservative.

LAB: 47.2% (+7.4)
CON: 40.3% (-7.0)
REF: 3.8% (+3.8)
LDEM: 3.1% (-0.8)

No BREX (-6.1) as prev.

Drilldown:

Would be interesting to see how the seat goes if there was a by-election in the future, which i imagine there would be since Khan was found guilty.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:48 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:The nonce has been found guilty of being a nonce.

Crispin Blunt MP has released a statement in defence of that nonce.


Even better, Crispin Blunt was - up until releasing that statement in support of Imran Ahmad Khan - the chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBTQ+ rights.

At least three members of that APPG resigned in protest in the wake of Mr Blunt's statement.

Mr Blunt has now retracted his statement, and has chosen - no doubt with some level of encouragement from the whips' office - to resign as chair of the APPG.


The Huskar Social Union wrote:In the event of an election being held today, the constituency of Wakefield would vote...

Labour GAIN from Conservative.

LAB: 47.2% (+7.4)
CON: 40.3% (-7.0)
REF: 3.8% (+3.8)
LDEM: 3.1% (-0.8)

No BREX (-6.1) as prev.

Drilldown:

Would be interesting to see how the seat goes if there was a by-election in the future, which i imagine there would be since Khan was found guilty.


I'm 99% certain that the LibDems will field a candidate for the sake of form, but will then accidentally forget to do any actual campaigning.

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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:54 am

West Bromwich Holme wrote:
Do you think fears of a fourth lockdown are still justified?


"Fears"?

Try living and working through the current lack of restrictions as someone who's immunosuppressed and is one of the c.500,000 UK residents classified as clinically extremely vulnerable to Covid, and then maybe get back to us about pandemic-related 'fears'.
Last edited by The Archregimancy on Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Nihilistic view
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Postby The Nihilistic view » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:53 am

Glevenschester wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:The nonce has been found guilty of being a nonce.

Crispin Blunt MP has released a statement in defence of that nonce.

Who is the nonce?

Sorry when I Google “nonce MP” like 5 deceased MPs came up.
So which MP do you mean?


Mr Noncy McNonceface, you haven't heard of him?
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The Nihilistic view
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Postby The Nihilistic view » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:55 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:In the event of an election being held today, the constituency of Wakefield would vote...

Labour GAIN from Conservative.

LAB: 47.2% (+7.4)
CON: 40.3% (-7.0)
REF: 3.8% (+3.8)
LDEM: 3.1% (-0.8)

No BREX (-6.1) as prev.

Drilldown:

Would be interesting to see how the seat goes if there was a by-election in the future, which i imagine there would be since Khan was found guilty.


That's actually pretty good, things must be turning around from a couple of months ago. I'd have expected no better than 33-35%.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:13 am

The Nihilistic view wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:In the event of an election being held today, the constituency of Wakefield would vote...

Labour GAIN from Conservative.

LAB: 47.2% (+7.4)
CON: 40.3% (-7.0)
REF: 3.8% (+3.8)
LDEM: 3.1% (-0.8)

No BREX (-6.1) as prev.

Drilldown:

Would be interesting to see how the seat goes if there was a by-election in the future, which i imagine there would be since Khan was found guilty.


That's actually pretty good, things must be turning around from a couple of months ago. I'd have expected no better than 33-35%.

This is how the polls look on wikipedia, so yous have went up a bit compared to December

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#National_poll_results
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:30 am

The most recent poll is from Redfield and Winton who have an 8 point Labour lead

LAB: 42% (–)
CON: 34% (-2)
LDEM: 8% (-1)
GRN: 5% (+1)
SNP: 4% (+1)
RFM: 4% (+1)
PLAID: 1% (–)
OTH: 2% (–)

Lot more info in the link, some little tibits from the 2019 GE, 10% of Conservative voters intend to vote Labour as do 13% of SNP supporters and 33% of Liberal Democrat supporters.

Labour leads in London, Wales, South West, North East, North West and Yorkshire and the Humber. Conservatives lead in South East, West Midlands, East Midlands and Eastern.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:36 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:In the event of an election being held today, the constituency of Wakefield would vote...

Labour GAIN from Conservative.

LAB: 47.2% (+7.4)
CON: 40.3% (-7.0)
REF: 3.8% (+3.8)
LDEM: 3.1% (-0.8)

No BREX (-6.1) as prev.

Drilldown:

Would be interesting to see how the seat goes if there was a by-election in the future, which i imagine there would be since Khan was found guilty.


I'm so glad to see Wakefield come to their senses once again. If you remember from a few years ago, it was in Wakefield where someone went up to Johnson and called him an idiot.

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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:59 am

Breaking news: the Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer are both being issued with fixed penalty notices for breaking Covid lockdown laws.


The Prime Minister should resign, for breaking the law and for misleading Parliament.



Edit:

BBC link to the breaking story for those who dislike the Grauniad: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61083402

Telegraph link for those who dislike both the BBC and the Grauniad, and can bypass the paywall: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... liz-truss/
Last edited by The Archregimancy on Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:02 am

The Archregimancy wrote:Breaking news: the Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer are both being issued with fixed penalty notices for breaking Covid lockdown laws.


The Prime Minister should resign, for breaking the law and for misleading Parliament.



Edit:

BBC link to the breaking story for those who dislike the Grauniad: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61083402

Telegraph link for those who dislike both the BBC and the Grauniad, and can bypass the paywall: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... liz-truss/

More like Crime Minister.
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Malphe II
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Postby Malphe II » Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:02 am

The Archregimancy wrote:Breaking news: the Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer are both being issued with fixed penalty notices for breaking Covid lockdown laws.


The Prime Minister should resign, for breaking the law and for misleading Parliament.

I almost want him to stick around, purely so he can continue the good work of digging a deeper hole for the Tories into the future.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:03 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:Breaking news: the Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer are both being issued with fixed penalty notices for breaking Covid lockdown laws.


The Prime Minister should resign, for breaking the law and for misleading Parliament.



Edit:

BBC link to the breaking story for those who dislike the Grauniad: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61083402

Telegraph link for those who dislike both the BBC and the Grauniad, and can bypass the paywall: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... liz-truss/

More like Crime Minister.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:07 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Ifreann wrote:More like Crime Minister.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:21 am

Carrie Johnson also fined.

From the Twitter account of ITV News' UK editor Paul Brand:

BREAKING: PM’s wife Carrie Johnson will also be fined.

Spokesperson says: “In the interests of transparency, Mrs Johnson can confirm she has been notified that she will receive a Fixed Penalty Notice. She has not yet received any further details about the nature of the FPN.”


Edit:

In the interest of balance, also reported by the Telegraph: https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/15 ... 6306317322
Last edited by The Archregimancy on Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:23 am

Call your shots, folks, will BoJo resign?

I'm putting my britcoin on "No".
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