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by The Huskar Social Union » Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:09 pm
by Novus America » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:00 pm
The Islands of Versilia wrote:Well done to Cuba. I cannot say much, as I’ve not at all monitored Cuba’s situation over the past couple of years, but I get a sense of ‘quiet competence’ on this matter specifically. Something that a great many supposedly rich and powerful states lack to the point it’s downright depressing. Again, kudos to them (Cuba).
by Novus America » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:10 pm
Chan Island wrote:Yeah, the embargo at this point is silly, and only exists to get the votes of a couple of old farts in Florida. The US does business with far worse regimes all the time, and Cuba’s barely a threat to boot.
Kudos to Cuba for that high vaccination rate, though truth be told that’s not surprising. The country is well-known for its focus on healthcare.
by Ordained Italy » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:14 pm
Fauzjhia wrote:I believe the Embargo must end as well
but concerning vaccines. I believe that anti-vaxers should be jailed for endangering public health.
Freedom of an individual should end where the freedom of other begin.
by Great Algerstonia » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:17 pm
Resilient Acceleration wrote:After a period of letting this discussion run its course without my involvement due to sheer laziness and a new related NS project, I have returned with an answer and that answer is Israel.
by Fauzjhia » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:37 pm
by Grenartia » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:46 pm
Novus America wrote:Chan Island wrote:Yeah, the embargo at this point is silly, and only exists to get the votes of a couple of old farts in Florida. The US does business with far worse regimes all the time, and Cuba’s barely a threat to boot.
Kudos to Cuba for that high vaccination rate, though truth be told that’s not surprising. The country is well-known for its focus on healthcare.
I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.
Sure we do business with the PRC which is far worse and more dangerous but the solution is not to do more business with the Cuban regime but to do much LESS business with the PRC. I wish we would put out MORE embargoes, a Cuban style embargo on the PRC is my dream (not going to happen but one can still dream). Now if you said “drop it on Cuba AND put one on the PRC because that would be a better situation” I could perhaps get behind that.
But not repeating what is suicidal stupidity in other cases just because we have stupidly done it in other cases.
Whether or not we keep, lift or modify the situation with Cuba should be judged on its own merits, not because of a two wrongs make a right type argument.
by Dreria » Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:00 pm
Novus America wrote:Chan Island wrote:Yeah, the embargo at this point is silly, and only exists to get the votes of a couple of old farts in Florida. The US does business with far worse regimes all the time, and Cuba’s barely a threat to boot.
Kudos to Cuba for that high vaccination rate, though truth be told that’s not surprising. The country is well-known for its focus on healthcare.
I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.
Sure we do business with the PRC which is far worse and more dangerous but the solution is not to do more business with the Cuban regime but to do much LESS business with the PRC. I wish we would put out MORE embargoes, a Cuban style embargo on the PRC is my dream (not going to happen but one can still dream). Now if you said “drop it on Cuba AND put one on the PRC because that would be a better situation” I could perhaps get behind that.
But not repeating what is suicidal stupidity in other cases just because we have stupidly done it in other cases.
Whether or not we keep, lift or modify the situation with Cuba should be judged on its own merits, not because of a two wrongs make a right type argument.
by Novus America » Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:04 pm
Grenartia wrote:Novus America wrote:
I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.
Sure we do business with the PRC which is far worse and more dangerous but the solution is not to do more business with the Cuban regime but to do much LESS business with the PRC. I wish we would put out MORE embargoes, a Cuban style embargo on the PRC is my dream (not going to happen but one can still dream). Now if you said “drop it on Cuba AND put one on the PRC because that would be a better situation” I could perhaps get behind that.
But not repeating what is suicidal stupidity in other cases just because we have stupidly done it in other cases.
Whether or not we keep, lift or modify the situation with Cuba should be judged on its own merits, not because of a two wrongs make a right type argument.
While I agree we should stop trading with the PRC as much as we do, Cuba isn't nearly on the same level as them, and in many respects, they're better than we are. Like, yeah, its overly authoritarian, but less so than any state whose existence is based on (and derived from) the Soviet Union's.
by Novus America » Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:08 pm
Dreria wrote:Novus America wrote:
I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.
Sure we do business with the PRC which is far worse and more dangerous but the solution is not to do more business with the Cuban regime but to do much LESS business with the PRC. I wish we would put out MORE embargoes, a Cuban style embargo on the PRC is my dream (not going to happen but one can still dream). Now if you said “drop it on Cuba AND put one on the PRC because that would be a better situation” I could perhaps get behind that.
But not repeating what is suicidal stupidity in other cases just because we have stupidly done it in other cases.
Whether or not we keep, lift or modify the situation with Cuba should be judged on its own merits, not because of a two wrongs make a right type argument.
"loathsome regimes" = anybody that's for the people, apparently
by The Alma Mater » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:00 pm
Great Algerstonia wrote:I can't support this because they probably stole America's vaccines
by The Alma Mater » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:20 pm
Novus America wrote:Dreria wrote:"loathsome regimes" = anybody that's for the people, apparently
Umm no. Few regimes are actually for the people, but kleptocratic minority oligarchies are less so than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests
For the people when violently crushing the people when they protest?
I am not sure why you think corrupt authoritarian regimes are more for the people, it seems your logic is the more the regime suppresses political and civil liberties the more for the people it is, but I obviously do not concur with that.
Besides are not you one saying the US is evil, and our businesses are an evil influence and so on?
If that is the case how is more US economic involvement in Cuba beneficial to Cuba?
by Dreria » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:23 pm
Novus America wrote:Dreria wrote:"loathsome regimes" = anybody that's for the people, apparently
Umm no. Few regimes are actually for the people, but kleptocratic minority oligarchies are less so than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests
For the people when violently crushing the people when they protest?
I am not sure why you think corrupt authoritarian regimes are more for the people, it seems your logic is the more the regime suppresses political and civil liberties the more for the people it is, but I obviously do not concur with that.
Besides are not you one saying the US is evil, and our businesses are an evil influence and so on?
If that is the case how is more US economic involvement in Cuba beneficial to Cuba?
by Novus America » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:42 pm
The Alma Mater wrote:Novus America wrote:
Umm no. Few regimes are actually for the people, but kleptocratic minority oligarchies are less so than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests
For the people when violently crushing the people when they protest?
I am not sure why you think corrupt authoritarian regimes are more for the people, it seems your logic is the more the regime suppresses political and civil liberties the more for the people it is, but I obviously do not concur with that.
Besides are not you one saying the US is evil, and our businesses are an evil influence and so on?
If that is the case how is more US economic involvement in Cuba beneficial to Cuba?
Who is asking for more US economic involvement ?
The USA currently bans *other nations* from trading with Cuba.
by The Alma Mater » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:42 pm
Dreria wrote:Novus America wrote:
Umm no. Few regimes are actually for the people, but kleptocratic minority oligarchies are less so than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests
For the people when violently crushing the people when they protest?
I am not sure why you think corrupt authoritarian regimes are more for the people, it seems your logic is the more the regime suppresses political and civil liberties the more for the people it is, but I obviously do not concur with that.
Besides are not you one saying the US is evil, and our businesses are an evil influence and so on?
If that is the case how is more US economic involvement in Cuba beneficial to Cuba?
Cuba = good
by Novus America » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:43 pm
Dreria wrote:Novus America wrote:
Umm no. Few regimes are actually for the people, but kleptocratic minority oligarchies are less so than most. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Cuban_protests
For the people when violently crushing the people when they protest?
I am not sure why you think corrupt authoritarian regimes are more for the people, it seems your logic is the more the regime suppresses political and civil liberties the more for the people it is, but I obviously do not concur with that.
Besides are not you one saying the US is evil, and our businesses are an evil influence and so on?
If that is the case how is more US economic involvement in Cuba beneficial to Cuba?
Cuba = good
by Greater Miami Shores 3 » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:59 pm
Novus America wrote:The Islands of Versilia wrote:Well done to Cuba. I cannot say much, as I’ve not at all monitored Cuba’s situation over the past couple of years, but I get a sense of ‘quiet competence’ on this matter specifically. Something that a great many supposedly rich and powerful states lack to the point it’s downright depressing. Again, kudos to them (Cuba).
They also had large protests by the heavily black population being brutalized by a very white regime but yes, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
by Greater Miami Shores 3 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:34 am
by Nilokeras » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:42 am
Novus America wrote:Chan Island wrote:Yeah, the embargo at this point is silly, and only exists to get the votes of a couple of old farts in Florida. The US does business with far worse regimes all the time, and Cuba’s barely a threat to boot.
Kudos to Cuba for that high vaccination rate, though truth be told that’s not surprising. The country is well-known for its focus on healthcare.
I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.
by Novus America » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:48 am
Nilokeras wrote:Novus America wrote:
I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.
The logic here is pointing out that it's deeply hypocritical pretend to a system of sanctions based on violations of human rights and scaling with severity when we have the case of Cuba's sanctions being harsh not because of anything it's done, but solely at the behest of a group of reactionary exiles with outsized influence in American politics.
by Engadine Mcdonalds 1997 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:49 am
by Greater Miami Shores 3 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:49 am
Nilokeras wrote:Novus America wrote:
I do not agree with this logic one bit. “I mean I already murdered a few people so why stop now?” Doing a lot of businesses with loathsome regimes is not going well for us or the world, it is killing the environment, global freedom and our national security.
The logic here is pointing out that it's deeply hypocritical pretend to a system of sanctions based on violations of human rights and scaling with severity when we have the case of Cuba's sanctions being harsh not because of anything it's done, but solely at the behest of a group of reactionary exiles with outsized influence in American politics.
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