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Throttle High Volume Posters to Improve Post Quality?

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Kaczynskisatva
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Throttle High Volume Posters to Improve Post Quality?

Postby Kaczynskisatva » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:26 am

Hypothesis:

1) Each poster has a certain amount to contribute to NSG, based on what is in their head.

2) There exists an optimal volume of posts, required to express what is in their head.

- If a poster posts below their optimal volume, then not everything which is in their head enters into the forum as quality of idea.
- If a poster posts at their optimal volume, then everything which is in their head enters into the forum as quality of idea.
- If a poster posts above their optimal volume, they have already shared (or failed to share) everything which is in their head, and additional posting creates diminishing returns on quality of idea, both for them and for people reading them.

Test:

Throttle the rate at which users may post to NSG, and see if the quality of posts improves.

I can think of two ways to do this:

- Determine the average posts per day for an NSG user, and throttle them all so that they cannot post above that average
- Throttle them to 2 posts per issue resolved.

I expect that this would greatly improve the overall idea quality of posts. One who is short on ammunition has an incentive to take more careful, effective shots. Many threads in this forum go up to 300 pages. They are unreadable after 8 or so pages - one can neither reasonably hope to read through the back volume in order to be on the same page, nor expect to improve the quality of the thread if they post without reading. If throttled, users would tend to make only their best posts, instead of filling the board with meaningless tit-for-tat one-liners.

This would also balance the forum between people who spend too much time on it, which is actually a poor indicator of personal life management and so transitively of idea quality, and people who cease to engage with it when the diminishing returns of continued engagement drop below a certain value.

Edit: Responding to constructive input, the original proposal was revised on page four. This revision is provided here:

Kaczynskisatva wrote:
Well, here's a democratic proposal:

Allow OP to check a box for "live thread" when they make a thread. If they designate it as a live thread, that means that they consider the topic it addresses to be evolving in real time, and it should behave as all threads currently behave on NSG.

Or, conversely, create a box for "throttle" which an OP can select, to make whatever throttling mechanism is determined by data to optimize post quality, apply to their thread.

Or, split NSG into two subforums, one in which threads are throttled by the yet-to-be-determined optimal method, and the other, a continuation of the present NSG.

I think this is a great idea, because it would allow the new proposal to be A/B tested, generating feedback both in terms of what users prefer to use, and in terms of what quality of posting goes into each forum.


Edit 2: Responding creatively to unintentionally constructive input, this proposal has again been expanded on page four, which is provided here:

Kaczynskisatva wrote:The idea-to-text ratio is the problem, not the text volume. Even though a throttle would improve the average ratio, it would not stop average volumes of sub-average idea content.

The response to this observation would be to create new moderation rules for the proposed throttled sub-forum, in which "this post contains neither artistic merit nor an argument" would be the basis for moderation. However, this would require active moderation, not a mechanism, so this is a diverging proposal.

Whether or not this diverging proposal should be tested, instead of the proposal to test a throttled sub-forum or thread option, depends on the resources available to the staff. They may have more access to a coder, to write the code for a throttle, or more access to volunteers to moderation, to moderate a subforum with this new constraint. However, both tests should not be done at the same time. We already have a control group, which is NSG in its present state, and only need to test one model against it at a time.
Last edited by Kaczynskisatva on Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:37 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Grinning Dragon
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Postby Grinning Dragon » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:35 am

Kaczynskisatva wrote:Hypothesis:

1) Each poster has a certain amount to contribute to NSG, based on what is in their head.

2) There exists an optimal volume of posts, required to express what is in their head.

- If a poster posts below their optimal volume, then not everything which is in their head enters into the forum as quality of idea.
- If a poster posts at their optimal volume, then everything which is in their head enters into the forum as quality of idea.
- If a poster posts above their optimal volume, they have already shared (or failed to share) everything which is in their head, and additional posting creates diminishing returns on quality of idea, both for them and for people reading them.

Test:

Throttle the rate at which users may post to NSG, and see if the quality of posts improves.

I can think of two ways to do this:

- Determine the average posts per day for an NSG user, and throttle them all so that they cannot post above that average
- Throttle them to 2 posts per issue resolved.

I expect that this would greatly improve the overall idea quality of posts. One who is short on ammunition has an incentive to take more careful, effective shots. Many threads in this forum go up to 300 pages. They are unreadable after 8 or so pages - one can neither reasonably hope to read through the back volume in order to be on the same page, nor expect to improve the quality of the thread if they post without reading. If throttled, users would tend to make only their best posts, instead of filling the board with meaningless tit-for-tat one-liners.

This would also balance the forum between people who spend too much time on it, which is actually a poor indicator of personal life management and so transitively of idea quality, and people who cease to engage with it when the diminishing returns of continued engagement drop below a certain value.


Even better idea. Instead of adding complexity to an already straight forward process, just leave shit alone. If it ain't broke, don't fuck with it.

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New Kowloon Bay
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Postby New Kowloon Bay » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:35 am

If NS were to throttle them to 2 posts per issue and have an average post limit, new nations might find it hard to post on forums. How would you find the average of a nation that has never posted on the forums or region boards before?
Last edited by New Kowloon Bay on Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:40 am

You made the same response to the Hypothetical Re: The President thread twice.
Kaczynskisatva wrote:It is impossible for such two people to have the same moral compass. The hypothetical presented is like, "what if there was a fruit which was both an apple and an orange - not a hybrid between them, but 100% apple, and 100% orange."

This cannot be conceived of, so it cannot be coherently responded to.

Kaczynskisatva wrote:It is impossible for two such people to have the same moral compass. This hypothetical is comparable to the hypothetical, "what if there was a fruit that was both an apple, and an orange? Not a hyrbid of the two, but both 100% apple, and 100% orange."

This is outside of the range of what can be conceived of, so it cannot be meaningfully understood. Another way to interpret your question is, "What if, hypothetically, these personal features of individuals were entirely insignificant to their functions - would you consider them to be significant?"

The answer is in the question, so it is a tautology, not a question. Nothing with any comprehensible meaning has been stated in the thesis of this thread.

I don't think you're in a position to be telling the rest of us how to post.
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Vivolkha
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Postby Vivolkha » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:49 am

Ifreann wrote:You made the same response to the Hypothetical Re: The President thread twice.

I don't think you're in a position to be telling the rest of us how to post.

That's not how debates and logical arguments work.


Regardless, the throttling proposed here is far too excessive. It would be counterproductive in discouraging new (and even old) nations from posting anything at all, and instead of a "quality" forum, you would have a "kinda dead" one. Besides, I don't know how (or why) this could be implemented in NSG only.

The OP's hypothesis are correct, but OP never states why they lead to a problem (probably because they don't) and the "solution" is incredibly extreme.

If I'm not mistaken, there is already some degree of throttling, mostly intended to filter spam. That is enough already.
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Kerwa
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Postby Kerwa » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:54 am

Procrustean central planning. What could possibly go wrong? It’s always been a smashing success in the past.

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Antipatros
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Postby Antipatros » Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:15 am

Overall contribution to the forum is more important than this relationship between quality and quantity, in my opinion.

Kowani, for example, is one of the more valuable members of the forum, and he posts an average of 33 times per day. Many of his posts are simply news updates, but they are often timely, relevant to the topic, and help to constructively move discussion within threads.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:19 am

Vivolkha wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You made the same response to the Hypothetical Re: The President thread twice.

I don't think you're in a position to be telling the rest of us how to post.

That's not how debates and logical arguments work.

Real world evidence of the falsity of this belief that limited posting is better is unwelcome, please only abstractly reason as if this were a maths problem.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:25 am

This is because I called you out for padding your posts out in order to make the arguments within seem more intelligent than they actually were, isn't it?
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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:23 am

You made 14 posts in one thread.

How about you follow your own rules first?
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The Holy Therns
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Postby The Holy Therns » Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:28 am

Apart from this being a terrible idea, shouldn't it be in Technical?
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:39 am

Thats a no from me fam.
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TURTLESHROOM II
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Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:43 am

Ah yes, punishing NS players for constantly contributing to NS. That will TOTALLY keep new players playing.

EDIT: Okay, I noticed this was referring to NSG-blr. Honestly, given the problems there, I would like to stop it, but frankly, I stand by my original point. It's too convoluted to create an "average of posts" on NSG-blr alone. I would suggest instead a cap on how many posts can be posted in one NSG-blr forum.
Last edited by TURTLESHROOM II on Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Just-An-Illusion
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Postby Just-An-Illusion » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:00 am

Buddy.... Quality debates on NSG is impossible.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:04 am

TURTLESHROOM II wrote:Ah yes, punishing NS players for constantly contributing to NS. That will TOTALLY keep new players playing.

EDIT: Okay, I noticed this was referring to NSG-blr. Honestly, given the problems there, I would like to stop it, but frankly, I stand by my original point. It's too convoluted to create an "average of posts" on NSG-blr alone. I would suggest instead a cap on how many posts can be posted in one NSG-blr forum.

I love how you go from thinking this is a bad idea to basically agreeing in the course of the realisation about who would be prevented from posting.
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The Holy Therns
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Postby The Holy Therns » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:05 am

Ifreann wrote:
TURTLESHROOM II wrote:Ah yes, punishing NS players for constantly contributing to NS. That will TOTALLY keep new players playing.

EDIT: Okay, I noticed this was referring to NSG-blr. Honestly, given the problems there, I would like to stop it, but frankly, I stand by my original point. It's too convoluted to create an "average of posts" on NSG-blr alone. I would suggest instead a cap on how many posts can be posted in one NSG-blr forum.

I love how you go from thinking this is a bad idea to basically agreeing in the course of the realisation about who would be prevented from posting.


It's obviously fine if it only affects people I don't like.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:08 am

Kaczynskisatva wrote:I can think of two ways to do this:

- Determine the average posts per day for an NSG user, and throttle them all so that they cannot post above that average
- Throttle them to 2 posts per issue resolved.


I have a third alternative for you: just stop reading them all
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:10 am

The Holy Therns wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I love how you go from thinking this is a bad idea to basically agreeing in the course of the realisation about who would be prevented from posting.


It's obviously fine if it only affects people I don't like.

NSG will finally be good once the only people allowed to post are me, people who agree with me, and ONE person who disagrees with me, but only in ways that are really easy for me to dunk on.
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Hippolysta
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Postby Hippolysta » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:11 am

These tests don't determine anything about the hypothesis, do they? You are not determining whether you've extracted all the contents of NSG posters' heads, and there is no attempt to determine an optimal volume of posts. I think you will have a better hypothesis if you change it to "throttling the number of posts will increase overall post quality" and focus on determining whether that is true or not, and then later determining the optimal throttle. Cheers!
Last edited by Hippolysta on Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TURTLESHROOM II
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Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:12 am

Ifreann wrote:I love how you go from thinking this is a bad idea to basically agreeing in the course of the realisation about who would be prevented from posting.


It's not the who, it's the WHAT. NSG-blr is a cancer and its existence has long been a detriment to the greater NS experience. Limiting people per topic there would cut a lot of the toxicity, hate, and especially the hive mind.
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TURTLESHROOM II
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Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:13 am

The Holy Therns wrote:It's obviously fine if it only affects people I don't like.


It has nothing to do with opinions and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that they are posting on NSG-blr. That sector is toxic and a detraction from the rest of NS.
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World Factbook
First Constitution
Legation Quarter
"NOOKULAR" STOCKPILE: 701,033 fission and dropping, 7 fusion.
CM wrote:Have I reached peak enlightened centrism yet? I'm getting chills just thinking about taking an actual position.

Proctopeo wrote:anarcho-von habsburgism

Lillorainen wrote:"Tengri's balls, [do] boys really never grow up?!"
Nuroblav wrote:On the contrary! Seize the means of ROBOT ARMS!
News ticker (updated 4/6/2024 AD):

As TS adapts to new normal, large flagellant sects remain -|- TurtleShroom forfeits imperial dignity -|- "Skibidi Toilet" creator awarded highest artistic honor for contributions to wholesome family entertainment (obscene gestures cut out)

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:14 am

TURTLESHROOM II wrote:
The Holy Therns wrote:It's obviously fine if it only affects people I don't like.


It has nothing to do with opinions and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that they are posting on NSG-blr. That sector is toxic and a detraction from the rest of NS.

TURTLESHROOM II wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I love how you go from thinking this is a bad idea to basically agreeing in the course of the realisation about who would be prevented from posting.


It's not the who, it's the WHAT. NSG-blr is a cancer and its existence has long been a detriment to the greater NS experience. Limiting people per topic there would cut a lot of the toxicity, hate, and especially the hive mind.

Is someone forcing you at gunpoint to keep posting here instead of the RPing or Gameplay forums…?
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TURTLESHROOM II
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Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:15 am

Ifreann wrote:NSG will finally be good once the only people allowed to post are me, people who agree with me, and ONE person who disagrees with me, but only in ways that are really easy for me to dunk on.


Waging flame wars and screaming a a brick wall is not contributing to NS. NSG-blr will finally be good when it doesn't exist.
Jesus loves you and died for you!
World Factbook
First Constitution
Legation Quarter
"NOOKULAR" STOCKPILE: 701,033 fission and dropping, 7 fusion.
CM wrote:Have I reached peak enlightened centrism yet? I'm getting chills just thinking about taking an actual position.

Proctopeo wrote:anarcho-von habsburgism

Lillorainen wrote:"Tengri's balls, [do] boys really never grow up?!"
Nuroblav wrote:On the contrary! Seize the means of ROBOT ARMS!
News ticker (updated 4/6/2024 AD):

As TS adapts to new normal, large flagellant sects remain -|- TurtleShroom forfeits imperial dignity -|- "Skibidi Toilet" creator awarded highest artistic honor for contributions to wholesome family entertainment (obscene gestures cut out)

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:15 am

TURTLESHROOM II wrote:
The Holy Therns wrote:It's obviously fine if it only affects people I don't like.


It has nothing to do with opinions and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that they are posting on NSG-blr. That sector is toxic and a detraction from the rest of NS.


So why do you keep posting in NSG then?
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TURTLESHROOM II
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Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:16 am

Senkaku wrote:Is someone forcing you at gunpoint to keep posting here instead of the RPing or Gameplay forums…?


I honestly think that everyone would benefit if they could only be toxic and contribute to the hate and hive mindedness of NSG-blr X number of times per topic.
Jesus loves you and died for you!
World Factbook
First Constitution
Legation Quarter
"NOOKULAR" STOCKPILE: 701,033 fission and dropping, 7 fusion.
CM wrote:Have I reached peak enlightened centrism yet? I'm getting chills just thinking about taking an actual position.

Proctopeo wrote:anarcho-von habsburgism

Lillorainen wrote:"Tengri's balls, [do] boys really never grow up?!"
Nuroblav wrote:On the contrary! Seize the means of ROBOT ARMS!
News ticker (updated 4/6/2024 AD):

As TS adapts to new normal, large flagellant sects remain -|- TurtleShroom forfeits imperial dignity -|- "Skibidi Toilet" creator awarded highest artistic honor for contributions to wholesome family entertainment (obscene gestures cut out)

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