Chicken Overlords and game health

[USS Juneau]

Absolutely. I've heard staff mention more serious issues that are old enough to drink. Some talk about the site in ways that make me think that bit about hamsters may not be jest.

Pretty sure the servers are running on an up to date VPS and not a 386 in Max's basement closet, so let's be real here okay?

It's not necessarily just hardware issues, it could also be serious software problems due to legacy code. See: the (unknown beyond "there's a serious security flaw") reason why we now have an image host whitelist on the forums instead of letting players self-host their images.

[WayNeacTia]

Pretty sure the servers are running on an up to date VPS and not a 386 in Max's basement closet, so let's be real here okay?

It's not necessarily just hardware issues, it could also be serious software problems due to legacy code. See: the (unknown beyond "there's a serious security flaw") reason why we now have an image host whitelist on the forums instead of letting players self-host their images.

It is very possible. That may have also been due to the proliferation of porn spammers as well.

[Archinstinct]

If the number of nations a person possesses is an issue, then add a paywall. If somebody wants to have more than 9000 nations they can have it as a premium feature if they help contribute to the game's maintenance.

[Haganham]

If the number of nations a person possesses is an issue, then add a paywall. If somebody wants to have more than 9000 nations they can have it as a premium feature if they help contribute to the game's maintenance.

that would require a way to automatically track how many nations people have, which we don't.

[Omnicontrol]

If the number of nations a person possesses is an issue, then add a paywall. If somebody wants to have more than 9000 nations they can have it as a premium feature if they help contribute to the game's maintenance.

No. Shut the fuck up and take those stupid Pay2Play ideas to another game, like P&W or something more stupid (assuming it's possible to be more stupid than P&W). NS is a game where money doesn't affect gameplay, skills do. I could NOT think of a stupider way to gain money in a FREE game.

[The H Corporation]

If the number of nations a person possesses is an issue, then add a paywall. If somebody wants to have more than 9000 nations they can have it as a premium feature if they help contribute to the game's maintenance.

That would make NS a pay2play site when it is supposed to be open to all and free, just like a website but with nations and some kind of social media (Normally General Forum) and a place to have fun (Mostly F7 but PTM can be as well), to RP (PTM), etc. With this you are literally limiting the site to people who can't afford even a premium in Spotify (Like me T-T).

Anyway, I agree with what the OP says, I really doubt Chicken Overlords need that many puppets that have become a technical issue, and that probably needs a resolution, though I actually don't know myself how to make that work but I certainly agree with the OP

[Fauzjhia]

If the number of nations a person possesses is an issue, then add a paywall. If somebody wants to have more than 9000 nations they can have it as a premium feature if they help contribute to the game's maintenance.

That would make NS a pay2play site when it is supposed to be open to all and free, just like a website but with nations and some kind of social media (Normally General Forum) and a place to have fun (Mostly F7 but PTM can be as well), to RP (PTM), etc. With this you are literally limiting the site to people who can't afford even a premium in Spotify (Like me T-T).

Anyway, I agree with what the OP says, I really doubt Chicken Overlords need that many puppets that have become a technical issue, and that probably needs a resolution, though I actually don't know myself how to make that work but I certainly agree with the OP

the solution is simple.
Wait until a nation has answered 18 issues to start ranking them.
its really not that hard.

[Sedgistan]

If the number of nations a person possesses is an issue, then add a paywall. If somebody wants to have more than 9000 nations they can have it as a premium feature if they help contribute to the game's maintenance.

No. Shut the fuck up and take those stupid Pay2Play ideas to another game, like P&W or something more stupid (assuming it's possible to be more stupid than P&W). NS is a game where money doesn't affect gameplay, skills do. I could NOT think of a stupider way to gain money in a FREE game.

*** Warned for flaming ***

[Honeydewistania]

I think if 9000 puppets really is a problem, a paywall is a good idea. If you want to waste server space (if it does), then you pay for it. It’s not like more than 5 people have even close to 9000 puppets or other game breaking numbers anyway

[Minoa]

Depending on how long it takes for the new Frontiers/Strongholds system to come into effect, I see that the following temporary measures could be possible (a bit rough though, sorry):

1. Definitely introduce additional regions to relieve pressure caused by the number of nations spawning in the Pacifics, Balder, Osiris and Lazarus.
2. If any of the feeder/respawn regions have more than roughly 5,000 nations, and there is at least one region below that limit, then that region gets no new/revived nations.
3. If all the feeder/respawn regions have more than roughly 5,000 nations, then six of the lowest populated of such regions (three feeders, three respawns) get priority.
4. Cap the number of nations in a user-created region to roughly 7,500 nations. Existing regions above that limit will continue as now, but will not accept new nations until it falls below the limit.

The Rejected Realms do not appear to be above 5,000 nations, but I would establish The North/East/South/West Rejected Realms to give some flavour and hope to exiled nations.

I do not know what was the all-time peak for the number of nations in the world (a number that I would like to include in NSindex too), but I am not seeing any case for a puppetsweep against Chicken Overlords as a player, especially considering what Haganham has stated.

[Fauzjhia]

Depending on how long it takes for the new Frontiers/Strongholds system to come into effect, I see that the following temporary measures could be possible (a bit rough though, sorry):

1. Definitely introduce additional regions to relieve pressure caused by the number of nations spawning in the Pacifics, Balder, Osiris and Lazarus.
2. If any of the feeder/respawn regions have more than roughly 5,000 nations, and there is at least one region below that limit, then that region gets no new/revived nations.
3. If all the feeder/respawn regions have more than roughly 5,000 nations, then six of the lowest populated of such regions (three feeders, three respawns) get priority.
4. Cap the number of nations in a user-created region to roughly 7,500 nations. Existing regions above that limit will continue as now, but will not accept new nations until it falls below the limit.

The Rejected Realms do not appear to be above 5,000 nations, but I would establish The North/East/South/West Rejected Realms to give some flavour and hope to exiled nations.

I do not know what was the all-time peak for the number of nations in the world (a number that I would like to include in NSindex too), but I am not seeing any case for a puppetsweep against Chicken Overlords as a player, especially considering what Haganham has stated.

WOAH, dividing my region ?
ho please. We dislike how big the feeders, the sinkers and some other regions, but come on, don't divide the rejected realms.

[Guy]

If large regions are genuinely a risk to the health of the website, a maximum region size formula that relies on the number of WA nations I think is a sensible solution. Of course, I expect enforcement of this to largely be an ad-hoc issue, so Admin/moderation can work with the player(s) concerned to ensure their region comes in under the desired size.

I would think a sufficiently large number of nations can also cause website issues. Of course, having a lot of puppets and maintaining them via scripts can be for legitimate gameplay reasons (and that are beneficial for the game), e.g. cards, R/D, etc. I am not sure whether any rules already touch on this, but this could also be addressed if not. It is probably difficult to more specifically define "legitimate gameplay reasons", and again I imagine this would involve Admin/moderation working directly with the player concerned. And I imagine there would be a response if someone tried creating e.g. 1 million nations, whether under the ToU or some rule.

If these issues only arise out of an inconvenience to R/Ders, the balance is somewhat different. I think the long-held (and correct) consensus is that long updates are detrimental to R/D. The balance here is probably somewhat different, though, because the group of detrimentally-affected players is smaller.

[Minoa]

Depending on how long it takes for the new Frontiers/Strongholds system to come into effect, I see that the following temporary measures could be possible (a bit rough though, sorry):

1. Definitely introduce additional regions to relieve pressure caused by the number of nations spawning in the Pacifics, Balder, Osiris and Lazarus.
2. If any of the feeder/respawn regions have more than roughly 5,000 nations, and there is at least one region below that limit, then that region gets no new/revived nations.
3. If all the feeder/respawn regions have more than roughly 5,000 nations, then six of the lowest populated of such regions (three feeders, three respawns) get priority.
4. Cap the number of nations in a user-created region to roughly 7,500 nations. Existing regions above that limit will continue as now, but will not accept new nations until it falls below the limit.

The Rejected Realms do not appear to be above 5,000 nations, but I would establish The North/East/South/West Rejected Realms to give some flavour and hope to exiled nations.

I do not know what was the all-time peak for the number of nations in the world (a number that I would like to include in NSindex too), but I am not seeing any case for a puppetsweep against Chicken Overlords as a player, especially considering what Haganham has stated.

WOAH, dividing my region ?
ho please. We dislike how big the feeders, the sinkers and some other regions, but come on, don't divide the rejected realms.

Okay, that was my bad because I do not really know if the admins consider anything between 2,500 and 5,000 as "too large".

[Slatos Empire]

This sounds like more of an annoyance to a few players that the largest region is puppets then an actual issue.

[RiderSyl]

I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

[The Kingdom of the Three Isles]

I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

Can you link the rules for me?

[RiderSyl]

I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

Can you link the rules for me?

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=260044#016

Puppet Flooding: Any player or group of players creating large numbers of puppets for the purpose of spamming, harassing, or annoying a region, be they invaders, defenders, or natives, may find all such puppets ... and their main nations ... deleted without warning. Note that Moderators do not enforce regional bans unless a player has a significant record of harassing members of the region (i.e. prior rule-breaking). In other circumstances, it should be handled by the Regional Officers.

[RiderSyl]

It's probably closer to actionable under the "for the purpose of spamming" part of the rule, rather than "purpose of annoying" part of the rule. CO is undeniably an instance of large numbers of puppets created to spam the game. It's only avoided violating the rule by exercising a loophole in it - You can't puppet flood a region if the region you're flooding with spam puppets is your own region.

[Haganham]

I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

Chicken overlords isn't puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying anyone though, nore for spamming. They're doing it to be the biggest region.

[Parhe]

I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

I doubt the main person behind CO is doing so with the motivation of annoying others. Some people might feel that what he does is annoying but that doesn't make it his intent.

It's probably closer to actionable under the "for the purpose of spamming" part of the rule, rather than "purpose of annoying" part of the rule. CO is undeniably an instance of large numbers of puppets created to spam the game. It's only avoided violating the rule by exercising a loophole in it - You can't puppet flood a region if the region you're flooding with spam puppets is your own region.

Which is precisely why this action is acceptable. He isn't spamming anyone but himself and people who knowingly choose to be in said region. . .sort of

I suppose some could argue the action of creating puppets and moving them into CO does create extra "activity" in the regions said accounts are spawned into, but that sounds like a dangerous precedence. I wonder how staff would feel about declaring such things spam. By that logic, a planned raid or liberation could be considered spamming by a group.

[Flanderlion]

I actually think this could potentially qualify as a moderation issue. Puppet Flooding is against the rules, right? The language of the rule says that the flooding must be for the purpose of annoying a specific region, but surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

I doubt the main person behind CO is doing so with the motivation of annoying others. Some people might feel that what he does is annoying but that doesn't make it his intent.

It's probably closer to actionable under the "for the purpose of spamming" part of the rule, rather than "purpose of annoying" part of the rule. CO is undeniably an instance of large numbers of puppets created to spam the game. It's only avoided violating the rule by exercising a loophole in it - You can't puppet flood a region if the region you're flooding with spam puppets is your own region.

Which is precisely why this action is acceptable. He isn't spamming anyone but himself and people who knowingly choose to be in said region. . .sort of

I suppose some could argue the action of creating puppets and moving them into CO does create extra "activity" in the regions said accounts are spawned into, but that sounds like a dangerous precedence. I wonder how staff would feel about declaring such things spam. By that logic, a planned raid or liberation could be considered spamming by a group.

You don't seem to get that each nation takes resources, and when players have excessive amounts, it takes away resources that could be used elsewhere.

[Frisbeeteria]

surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

By the same logic I could argue that your forum posting style annoys everyone, and ban you. But nope, that's not how it works.

You don't seem to get that each nation takes resources, and when players have excessive amounts, it takes away resources that could be used elsewhere.

IRL, sure. Here, the only thing it takes away is bragging rights on the census.

[Sandaoguo]

So, uh, which game features *do* any of NS leadership care about? If a feature, like census rankings, is disrupted by user actions… most games would care enough about the functionality of their features to consider it a problem needing addressed.

Massive puppet farms are effectively a denial of service issue for various game features. But it seems like The Rules are immovable and unchangeable, and unless DoS-like behavior from players is already in The Rules, it can’t possibly be a problem.

[RiderSyl]

surely puppet flooding for the purpose of annoying everyone should be punishable as well, as it's arguably worse.

By the same logic I could argue that your forum posting style annoys everyone, and ban you. But nope, that's not how it works.

My forum posting style hasn't inspired a technical thread, so I don't think that comparison works, Fris.

[Sheepy Hollow]

Do we have statistics on how many nations CTE every night?

What about how many nations CTE'd on the 28th day after Drew's first NS video? His second?

I'm certain it had to be a lot. Did the servers melt down and refuse to work; or were they just really slow? Did these mass extinction events cause any major bugs?

If not then it's probably not anything that players need to worry about; and should be left for admin to figure out their own. If so; then those bugs should be reported to admin so that the next mass extinction doesn't cause them again.