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by Dentali » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:41 pm
by Gordano and Lysandus » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:41 pm
Velahor wrote:"Well, yeah, the bill came from him. Except I didn't think we could pull enough Democratic support without Section 5 tacked onto it. Looking at the composition, who the deciding votes would be, it didn't make sense. So I wrote that part and then we put up the bill. That's part of why I was surprised to see your tweets against Section 5."
Paulson sipped, and paused, thinking.
"At the same time, I really doubt that he was doing it for nefarious reasons...I mean, he had Earl bring out the hard whip on it, so you gotta...you know...I'm honestly not too sure. He's got Junior taking lead on it in the Senate...I just don't see him pulling that on him too. Not with all the support Tom gets from the Wolf people these days."
by Sarenium » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:47 pm
Jack Vichter
@JackVichter
Church before the inauguration, today my mind falls to Luke 14:12-14.
Jack Vichter
@JackVichter
Meeting with the President today, hoping to come out of it with a productive and constructive outcome.
Jack Vichter
@JackVichter
The ARA will now include an additional spend on:
- Rural Infrastructure Upgrades
- Additional RnD for Alternative Fuels
The President also gave me an assurance that this was a stepping stone and that we would be back to discuss Infrastructure, Wages and more later on! This is a big win for those of us living far from a big city!
...I'd like to do you slowly...
Just another Australian.
by Velahor » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:53 pm
Gordano and Lysandus wrote:Velahor wrote:"Well, yeah, the bill came from him. Except I didn't think we could pull enough Democratic support without Section 5 tacked onto it. Looking at the composition, who the deciding votes would be, it didn't make sense. So I wrote that part and then we put up the bill. That's part of why I was surprised to see your tweets against Section 5."
Paulson sipped, and paused, thinking.
"At the same time, I really doubt that he was doing it for nefarious reasons...I mean, he had Earl bring out the hard whip on it, so you gotta...you know...I'm honestly not too sure. He's got Junior taking lead on it in the Senate...I just don't see him pulling that on him too. Not with all the support Tom gets from the Wolf people these days."
Caroline blinked with a genuinely confused expression, "Not every House Democrat is Dan Ziegler, Diane, we've got a lot of caucus members who aren't independently rich. So do you guys now, with some of these freshmen. They won't be able to make up the difference from section 5. Whilst relaxing that protection means that the really rich guys are actually getting a pay rise out of the bill. But I dunno, something smells off about it now I know they pushed this on you."
by Gordano and Lysandus » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:57 pm
Velahor wrote:Paulson sat and thought for a second.
"I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is that the decreases in pay are completely reasonable, so I think all those freshmen on both sides of the aisle will do just fine. That's why I personally believe in the bill."
"I guess maybe I was only thinking of Section 5 from my personal experience, because I've always been able to earn the max for outside income off of real estate sales, various commissions from things I published in the past, just stuff here and there."
by Velahor » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:09 pm
Gordano and Lysandus wrote:Velahor wrote:Paulson sat and thought for a second.
"I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is that the decreases in pay are completely reasonable, so I think all those freshmen on both sides of the aisle will do just fine. That's why I personally believe in the bill."
"I guess maybe I was only thinking of Section 5 from my personal experience, because I've always been able to earn the max for outside income off of real estate sales, various commissions from things I published in the past, just stuff here and there."
"I made it my business, when I led the Democrats in the House, to get to know some of our newer, and some of our poorer, members. Some of them were practically in shoeboxes. And you and I both know that to be an effective politician means being able to... host, to entertain. It's an often overlooked part of politics, but it means that for some members, they're just never going to be able to build the influence they need to rise in the ranks. Especially if they're from further out, California or Arizona and the like, and have to fly back and forth frequently."
She sipped her gin, shaking her head. "I did consider whether we could look at a housing expense provision for poorer members, but I wasn't sure how to word it. Either way, think about Section 5 this way - Earl Tenson, your Whip, he's got money in fossil fuels, right? So when that cap gets raised, he's gonna haul in a lot more - proportionally - than you."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Schedule
by Gordano and Lysandus » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:14 pm
Velahor wrote:Paulson shook her head.
"Carrie, I think you misread Section 5. It says that outside income of members of Congress is currently 15%, and will be increased to 20% of the annual rate of basic pay for employees on level II of the executive schedule."
Paulson pulled out her phone and pulled up a Wikipedia article and sent it to Carrie's phone.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Schedule
"Just a refresher on how the executive schedule works."
"As you can see, the current executive pay schedule for Level II employees is $199,300. So you take 15% of that number..." she pulled out her phone calculator, "and then you get $29,895. That's the current cap for everyone in the House or Senate."
"The bill puts that cap up to 20%, or for the year of 2021, $39,860."
"But the same cap applies to everyone, and this isn't based on percentage of income or anything like that, it just gets the number from the executive branch's pay schedule."
"So no, with the way I wrote it, both Tenson and I would be capped at thirty-nine-K."
Paulson took a long drink.
by Velahor » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:43 pm
Gordano and Lysandus wrote:Velahor wrote:Paulson shook her head.
"Carrie, I think you misread Section 5. It says that outside income of members of Congress is currently 15%, and will be increased to 20% of the annual rate of basic pay for employees on level II of the executive schedule."
Paulson pulled out her phone and pulled up a Wikipedia article and sent it to Carrie's phone.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Schedule
"Just a refresher on how the executive schedule works."
"As you can see, the current executive pay schedule for Level II employees is $199,300. So you take 15% of that number..." she pulled out her phone calculator, "and then you get $29,895. That's the current cap for everyone in the House or Senate."
"The bill puts that cap up to 20%, or for the year of 2021, $39,860."
"But the same cap applies to everyone, and this isn't based on percentage of income or anything like that, it just gets the number from the executive branch's pay schedule."
"So no, with the way I wrote it, both Tenson and I would be capped at thirty-nine-K."
Paulson took a long drink.
"If I was Deb Feyrer, I'd be putting a pair of scissors through a legislative aide's hand right now. That's not how my staff read it, I am sorry for the misunderstanding, though it does still leave the problem that there are a great many members of Congress who don't have any outside income. Should it be conditional that a prospective member of Congress must own a legal firm, or a business consultancy, or a large farm, or a real estate portfolio, just to be able to participate in the political process? I do still have my issues about increasing the importance of outside wealth, especially outside wealth which may give rise to conflict of interest questions." Caroline sighed, shaking her head. She should have gone over the text herself rather than the notes she'd been given - the problem still existed, but it was significantly less proportionate than she had first thought.
"That said, I do intend on bringing two amendments on the floor irrespective."
by Gordano and Lysandus » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:45 pm
Velahor wrote:“Oof, yeah, see that’s why we were thinking of this so differently. I get what you’re saying about the ones with zero income though; one thing we could do is amend it so people have the option of either taking the outside income, or taking a housing stipend if they make less in outside income than a certain amount.”
“And speaking of amendments, care to tell me what you were thinking?”
Amendment 2 to the Clean Congress Act
Inserted after Section 5 is the following:"SECTION 6: EXPANSIONS TO CONFLICT OF INTEREST LEGISLATION FOR FEDERAL LEGISLATORS, LEGISLATIVE OFFICIALS, AND LEGISLATIVE STAFF
- Except as provided by subsection d., no Member of Congress or senior official working in the legislative branch may own an interest in, or trade (unless as a divestment) any stock, bond, commodity, future, or other form of security, including an interest in a hedge fund, a derivative, option, or other complex investment vehicle.
- No officer or employee of any congressional committee or commission of any kind may maintain, own, or trade (unless as a divestment) any substantial holdings which may be affected by the actions of the committee or commission for which the individual works, unless the Select Committee on Ethics of the Senate or the Committee on Ethics of the House of Representatives, as applicable, approves of such holdings in writing after consultation with the Office of Congressional Ethics.
- No Member of Congress, or senior official working in the legislative branch, may knowingly use his or her official position to introduce or aid the progress or passage of legislation, with the purpose of furthering his or her pecuniary interest, or that of their immediate family, or of a limited class of persons or enterprises of which he or she, or his or her immediate family, or enterprises controlled by them, are members of said affected class.
- Nothing in this section shall be construed as to prohibit a Member of Congress, or an employee of a Member of Congress, or an employee of any congressional committee or commission from owning -
- a commonly held investment fund as defined by section 102(f)(8) of the Ethics in Government Act of 1978 if the investment meets the requirements described in section 105(b)(2);
- shares of Settlement Common Stock issued under section 7(g)(1)(A) of the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act or;
- shares of Settlement Common Stock, as defined in section 3 of the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act."
by Velahor » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:10 pm
Gordano and Lysandus wrote:Velahor wrote:“Oof, yeah, see that’s why we were thinking of this so differently. I get what you’re saying about the ones with zero income though; one thing we could do is amend it so people have the option of either taking the outside income, or taking a housing stipend if they make less in outside income than a certain amount.”
“And speaking of amendments, care to tell me what you were thinking?”
"Well, the first one was meant to fix the issues with Section 5. If we could work out the housing stipend, then that'd probably be pretty easy to sort out. The second is..." She rifles through a folder, setting it on the table:
Amendment 2 to the Clean Congress Act
Inserted after Section 5 is the following:"SECTION 6: EXPANSIONS TO CONFLICT OF INTEREST LEGISLATION FOR FEDERAL LEGISLATORS, LEGISLATIVE OFFICIALS, AND LEGISLATIVE STAFF
- Except as provided by subsection d., no Member of Congress or senior official working in the legislative branch may own an interest in, or trade (unless as a divestment) any stock, bond, commodity, future, or other form of security, including an interest in a hedge fund, a derivative, option, or other complex investment vehicle.
- No officer or employee of any congressional committee or commission of any kind may maintain, own, or trade (unless as a divestment) any substantial holdings which may be affected by the actions of the committee or commission for which the individual works, unless the Select Committee on Ethics of the Senate or the Committee on Ethics of the House of Representatives, as applicable, approves of such holdings in writing after consultation with the Office of Congressional Ethics.
- No Member of Congress, or senior official working in the legislative branch, may knowingly use his or her official position to introduce or aid the progress or passage of legislation, with the purpose of furthering his or her pecuniary interest, or that of their immediate family, or of a limited class of persons or enterprises of which he or she, or his or her immediate family, or enterprises controlled by them, are members of said affected class.
- Nothing in this section shall be construed as to prohibit a Member of Congress, or an employee of a Member of Congress, or an employee of any congressional committee or commission from owning -
- a commonly held investment fund as defined by section 102(f)(8) of the Ethics in Government Act of 1978 if the investment meets the requirements described in section 105(b)(2);
- shares of Settlement Common Stock issued under section 7(g)(1)(A) of the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act or;
- shares of Settlement Common Stock, as defined in section 3 of the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act."
by Gordano and Lysandus » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:23 pm
Velahor wrote:Paulson stifled a laugh. While she had no doubt Carrie favored such bold reforms, and she did too, she knew that such an amendment would be doomed.
“I like it. I like it a lot. But I would be concerned that if the amendment sticks, the whole bill ends up failing, if not in the House then in the Senate. I’d be willing to co-sponsor it with you as a separate bill, but that amendment will likely stop Tenson from enforcing the whip on this.”
by Velahor » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:09 pm
Gordano and Lysandus wrote:Velahor wrote:Paulson stifled a laugh. While she had no doubt Carrie favored such bold reforms, and she did too, she knew that such an amendment would be doomed.
“I like it. I like it a lot. But I would be concerned that if the amendment sticks, the whole bill ends up failing, if not in the House then in the Senate. I’d be willing to co-sponsor it with you as a separate bill, but that amendment will likely stop Tenson from enforcing the whip on this.”
"I mean, I have doubts about the bill clearing the House in its existing form. There's undoubtedly going to be revolts - on both sides - over any attempt to whip this bill. I doubt the amendment will pass, but I have to make a show of it. Especially considering..." Could she tell Diane? She liked Diane, that was for sure. But not yet. It was way too early.
"Still, if it does pass the House, it may well still be amended in the Senate. You know how these things go. I'm still just so worried that this is an attempt by Republican leadership to limit your influence. You're a power player in their caucus, Diane."
by Gordano and Lysandus » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:20 pm
Velahor wrote:Diane was quite conflicted. Simone’s theory seemed logical enough, but there were holes.
“Well, they’re trying to whip for it now, if that representative from Mississippi’s tweet in protest didn’t make it obvious.”
Paulson took another drink
“I’m taking your hypothesis on this very seriously. But if that was Volker’s plan, wouldn’t he be risking it backfiring? For instance, if there really is going to be a fight over the bill, and I have the power of the whip and the speaker behind me, doesn’t that give my voice more authority in the party?”
by Newne Carriebean7 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:25 pm
Bill Idea: $50k more for Senate than House? Might work- Durant.
Krugeristan wrote:This is Carrie you're referring to. I'm not going to expect him to do something sane anytime soon. He can take something as simple as a sandwich, and make me never look at sandwiches with a straight face ever again.
Former Carriebeanian president Carol Dartenby sentenced to 4 years hard labor for corruption and mismanagement of state property|Former Carriebeanian president Antrés Depuís sentenced to 3 years in prison for embezzling funds and corruption
by Velahor » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:31 pm
Gordano and Lysandus wrote:Velahor wrote:Diane was quite conflicted. Simone’s theory seemed logical enough, but there were holes.
“Well, they’re trying to whip for it now, if that representative from Mississippi’s tweet in protest didn’t make it obvious.”
Paulson took another drink
“I’m taking your hypothesis on this very seriously. But if that was Volker’s plan, wouldn’t he be risking it backfiring? For instance, if there really is going to be a fight over the bill, and I have the power of the whip and the speaker behind me, doesn’t that give my voice more authority in the party?”
"That power is fleeting. You're not the one actually holding it. And expending a bit of their power to put you in an embarrassing situation would be a crafty move on their part," she frowned with a hum, "but don't get me wrong, I do believe your intentions here are wholly honest."
by Gordano and Lysandus » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:34 pm
Velahor wrote:Diane finished her drink fairly slowly, while she considered what her colleague said. That’s something she tried really hard to keep in mind, that this was politics and they were rival colleagues, and while she was friendly with Carrie, there was the feeling that now she was unsure of both her leadership’s motives, and the motives of the woman in the room with her.
She set the drink on the coaster, and then leaned forward, speaking inquisitively, with composure.
“So…I gotta ask you this Carrie. Be honest with me. If this is true that Volker is setting me up, if that’s actually true, what’s the way out? Is there a way out?”
by Velahor » Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:21 pm
Gordano and Lysandus wrote:Velahor wrote:Diane finished her drink fairly slowly, while she considered what her colleague said. That’s something she tried really hard to keep in mind, that this was politics and they were rival colleagues, and while she was friendly with Carrie, there was the feeling that now she was unsure of both her leadership’s motives, and the motives of the woman in the room with her.
She set the drink on the coaster, and then leaned forward, speaking inquisitively, with composure.
“So…I gotta ask you this Carrie. Be honest with me. If this is true that Volker is setting me up, if that’s actually true, what’s the way out? Is there a way out?”
"Well, you've got to be discreet. Maybe take the temperature of your caucus, talk to other senior Republicans who respect you or aren't too close to the leadership. Figure out what's going on, and see if there's anyone who can pressure the bill back into committee. Then it'll fade out of memory and you'll be off the hook. But that's only if this is a sting, I can only conjecture, of course." She hummed softly, finishing her own drink. "It's frustrating, because there is something I'd love it if you worked with me on."
by Gordano and Lysandus » Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:24 pm
Velahor wrote:“Then let’s work on it. I already made a big concession to the President and Volker by signing onto their relief bill…you know that spending at those levels typically isn’t my thing. I also am currently doing a lot of the heavy lifting for drafting a bunch of upcoming bills to assist the President’s agenda, stuff I’ve already run by him as passable.”
“I probably should talk to him. I can’t imagine he’s an easy man to reach at the moment though.”
Diane took a moment to clear her thoughts.
“If they do cross me at this point, well, there’s ways to fight back. I’ve agreed to not make a fuss on a lot of issues that I could speak out on. That could always change.”
“So, I’m going to do some snooping around, but I think that it’s a bad look for me to let the bill disappear now. So if you want to work on it, we can.”
by Velahor » Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:39 pm
Gordano and Lysandus wrote:Velahor wrote:“Then let’s work on it. I already made a big concession to the President and Volker by signing onto their relief bill…you know that spending at those levels typically isn’t my thing. I also am currently doing a lot of the heavy lifting for drafting a bunch of upcoming bills to assist the President’s agenda, stuff I’ve already run by him as passable.”
“I probably should talk to him. I can’t imagine he’s an easy man to reach at the moment though.”
Diane took a moment to clear her thoughts.
“If they do cross me at this point, well, there’s ways to fight back. I’ve agreed to not make a fuss on a lot of issues that I could speak out on. That could always change.”
“So, I’m going to do some snooping around, but I think that it’s a bad look for me to let the bill disappear now. So if you want to work on it, we can.”
"Well, just be careful. The Republican Party is still not what it once was, and I'm yet to be convinced that Nate Richardson has what it takes to bring them in line. Believe me, I want a healthy Republican Party too," she smiled, shaking her head. "There's a regulation I want to remove from the Postal Service, that should tickle your libertarian nature, and I also want to take another punt at removing the deadline from the ERA. Every little scrape towards freedom, you know?"
by Gordano and Lysandus » Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:43 pm
Velahor wrote:Diane thought about it for a second.
“You know what? Are you looking for a Republican co-sponsor to put on that ERA bill? I’m interested, I’m thinking it would be a smart move for me. For at least a few reasons I can think of.”
“The Postal Service one? I’m cautiously going to say I’ll vote in favor, however, I’ll have to test the waters a bit to know for sure.”
by Velahor » Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:06 am
Gordano and Lysandus wrote:Velahor wrote:Diane thought about it for a second.
“You know what? Are you looking for a Republican co-sponsor to put on that ERA bill? I’m interested, I’m thinking it would be a smart move for me. For at least a few reasons I can think of.”
“The Postal Service one? I’m cautiously going to say I’ll vote in favor, however, I’ll have to test the waters a bit to know for sure.”
"I'd be very happy to have you work with me on a thrust to put the ERA back on the agenda. Having a prominent Republican woman at my side on the initiative would be great," she smiled and nodded, before humming a little, "The Postal Service one will upset the people who want to privatize the Postal Service, but frankly, I don't think the way to go about that goal is sabotaging a government service at the public expense, which is what they're doing."
by Gordano and Lysandus » Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:11 am
Velahor wrote:“Well, I’m one of those people who wants to privatize the Post Office, but that’s not happening without a constitutional amendment, so it’s probably never happening. I’m definitely considering voting in favor of your bill because if we’re going to have a public post office, it should be properly funded and functioning.”
“What do you think of the MARKET Act? I got that young Senator who’s all about farming and such on it.”
by Velahor » Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:30 am
Gordano and Lysandus wrote:Velahor wrote:“Well, I’m one of those people who wants to privatize the Post Office, but that’s not happening without a constitutional amendment, so it’s probably never happening. I’m definitely considering voting in favor of your bill because if we’re going to have a public post office, it should be properly funded and functioning.”
“What do you think of the MARKET Act? I got that young Senator who’s all about farming and such on it.”
"It's chicken-shit of those suits to try to force the issue over the Postal Service by pushing it into defaults that we then have to bail out. If you want to privatize it, fine, draft an amendment and we'll talk about it - that's what you would do. It's not what they're doing," Caroline had always admired Diane's earnestness and practicality. Debate instead of sabotage, that was what really put Diane apart - in Caroline's mind - from other Republicans.
"I confess I'm a no on the MARKET Act, and that's not a position I expect to move from, but it's a Republican majority. You'll probably be fine."
by Gordano and Lysandus » Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:33 am
Velahor wrote:“I figured as much, I have the votes in the House and Senate to make it happen anyway.”
“Anything else major coming up from the Democrats I should be aware of?”
by Velahor » Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:48 am
Gordano and Lysandus wrote:Velahor wrote:“I figured as much, I have the votes in the House and Senate to make it happen anyway.”
“Anything else major coming up from the Democrats I should be aware of?”
"I'm not as in the loop as I used to be, I'm afraid. There's nothing particularly surprising coming that I think is working its way through the pipeline," She scratched her chin, shaking her head, "So far, it's all just our usual stuff, and then stuff we're working with your lot on and I'm not in the room for that anymore. Senate'll be slow though, they're still chewing through nominations."
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