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by -Amy Pond- » Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:12 pm
by Goobergunchia » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:13 pm
by Outer Sparta » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:15 pm
by Aivintis » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:02 pm
by The Church of Satan » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:32 pm
by Twertis » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:45 pm
Honeydewistania wrote:TRR has a community where all are welcome is by design, not by choice. I wouldn’t call that especially commendable. You’d want to speak to some TRRers and see what you can include in here.
by Twertis » Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:56 pm
by Unibot III » Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:11 pm
Twertis wrote:Also, I’ve spent most of my time on NS in TRR, and I’m not at all convinced it’s commendable. Unibotian propaganda might describe it as a beacon of culture, defenderism, and media (as shown in his style as delegate), and to an extent it is, but only an extent.
I love the laid-back, quiet and welcoming nature of TRR. It has a very strong community of gameplayers, SCers, etc— especially for a region which struggles so hard to gain members. And there’s no doubt that the RRA has been one of the most significant militaries in the game. But I don’t think we should exaggerate its greatness. TRR’s devoluted, decentralized executive branch has proved to be largely ineffectual and weak— only the most competent players can make a dent, and even then only barely. And TRT’s high-and-mighty opinion of itself is again just propaganda from Unibot and CoS, when in reality nobody writes anything interesting anywhere in NS media.
When I was attempting Commend Equilism, Sedgistan suggested that I commend Equilism for its players, rather than the region itself. This turns out to be a doubly excellent idea for TRR. TRR’s had a long slew of prominent players: Fratt, Naivetry, Sedge, CG, Kandy, Harm, Wop, Karp, Deadeye Jack, Grim, Goober, etc. I’m probably missing a dozen.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by The Church of Satan » Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:02 am
by Algebra and Geometry » Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:07 am
YSG Hermitcraft wrote:So, this is my third attempt at getting a WA resolution up, and as my previous attempts failed (and I got some advice saying that I should first post it here as a draft), I decided: Hey, let's actually put it on the forums first, to see if the community can find any flaws! Anyways, here's my SC proposal right now:The Security Council,
Acknowledging the fact that the Rejected Realms (known here as TRR) is where all ejected and/or banned nations reside;
Recognizing their attempts to make the world safer by providing a community where everyone is welcome;
Understanding that sometimes, things don't go as expected, and extra work is needed, which is true for TRR;
Hoping that, someday, there will be no need for ejecting/banning, due to their efforts,
Hereby commends the Rejected Realms
If I screwed up somewhere, please tell me. If you think that this is ready to be put through, tell me as well!
(NOTE: I did submit this, but then I withdrew it when I realized it's forums first, then submission)
by Unibot III » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:21 am
The Church of Satan wrote:As much as I dislike the notion, TRR benefited from all the controversy and conflict that Gameplay had at the time. We capitalized on all of that. In a time of peace, there's little to capitalize on. But consider TRR's long history. The region has done a lot of good over the years, despite the obstacles imposed on us by the mechanics unique to it. We've long taken in the worst NationStates has to offer, and we thrived anyways. How many regions can honestly say that? From the moment the RRA went defender, the region has prospered. Our predecessors, Kandarin, Crazy Girl, and Siggi, laid the foundation for players such as Fratt, Guy, Sedge, Wham, Unibot, and LR to build the community that made such a big impact in NS, diplomatically, culturally, and militarily. We reached our peak some years ago, but I think we're still commendable even though we're not at our best right now.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Quebecshire » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:50 pm
Unibot III wrote:I think TRR’s best path forward is either to adopt something like Goober’s “Reject Modernity” plan - and play a pro-active role in making NSGP more interesting, reviving a defender supergroup (which TGW will try to oppose)
Benevolent Thomas wrote:I founded a defender organization out of my dislike of invaders, what invading represents, and my desire to see them suffer.
Pergamon wrote:I must say, you are truly what they deserve.
by Unibot III » Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:35 pm
Quebecshire wrote:Unibot III wrote:I think TRR’s best path forward is either to adopt something like Goober’s “Reject Modernity” plan - and play a pro-active role in making NSGP more interesting, reviving a defender supergroup (which TGW will try to oppose)
Something tells me your idea of a "defender supergroup" is overpoliticized bullshit stuck in the pre-Libcord era. No thanks. Defenders, RRA included, are thriving right now without the nonsense of players and eras past.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Twertis » Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:01 pm
by The Church of Satan » Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:01 am
by Unibot III » Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:29 am
Twertis wrote:Somehow Unibot and I couldn’t agree more and couldn’t agree less at the same time.
TRR is not a gameplay region. At least, not anymore. Maybe it was, and the death of gameplay killed off any regional purpose TRR had. But that only shows a lack of resilience on TRR’s part. Why should a region exist if all it does is serve gameplay drama? I’m sure rejects would agree with me. FA policy is essentially to stay out of as much gameplay drama as possible— without such we’d be tied up in constant fights with TNP, TWP, Osiris, and yes even other defender regions (because of people like me who align more with TNP philosophy).
The battles TRR fights are internal. We’ve got hardcore independents debating moralist defenders, those who want to limit executive power and those who don’t, those who want more of the same and those who are dying for change, etc. TRR is stagnant because it’s incapable of managing crossroads. Every little thing (even double posting on an RMB) becomes a month-long Assembly argument with no conclusion. And meanwhile the government does nothing and nobody seems to notice or care.
They need to borrow from the United States and beef up the executive immensely. Democracy’s great and all, but the assembly needs to shut up and let the government do its own thing for once. Delegate’s need the opportunity to pick a cabinet that best suits them and their goals, and then forward their goals with the assembly only stepping in for major things. Democracy simply isn’t efficient or productive enough to be used as it is in TRR.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by The Church of Satan » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:16 pm
Unibot III wrote:Church is right that we’re off-topic, mostly, so I’ll just reiterate my initial point first which was questioning whether TRR is healthy enough to be recognized — a “legacy” commendation makes sense to me for an old UCR, but GCRs are forever, they’re a permanent part of the game and increasingly they’ve been a stagnant part of the game.
by Unibot III » Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:56 am
The Church of Satan wrote:Unibot III wrote:Church is right that we’re off-topic, mostly, so I’ll just reiterate my initial point first which was questioning whether TRR is healthy enough to be recognized — a “legacy” commendation makes sense to me for an old UCR, but GCRs are forever, they’re a permanent part of the game and increasingly they’ve been a stagnant part of the game.
Given that we've maintained basically the exact same government, with the exact same values, for about as long as NationStates has existed, I feel that a legacy commendation is exactly what this should be. Most GCRs saw multiple changes in government and values over the years. To maintain ours and thrive through all the chaos that NationStates has seen throughout its existence, I would say warrants a well-deserved legacy commendation.
It's not like there isn't any sort of precedence for it either. Codger got a commendation for being a warzone delegate for a whole year. So why shouldn't TRR get a commendation for keeping its government going, defending countless regions from raiders and imperialists, and region crashers too, while building up a thriving community that values democracy and personal liberty for eighteen long years?
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by The Church of Satan » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:45 pm
Unibot III wrote:This is not accurate though, the 2011 Constitution was revolutionary in TRR. Barring the RRA & the flag, there is very little continuity between post-2011 TRR, a liberal democracy with an active press, and a pre-2011 TRR that was largely defined by one personality and was often inactive.
I feel like there are different rules & expectations here for legacy commendations.
A legacy commendation for a player or a UCR is done so with the understanding that no player, nor any user-created community can realistically be expected to be a permanent fixture of the game. We have real lives. Our activity is going to wane. Things move on.
A legacy commendation for a GCR is more difficult to justify when a GCR is a permanent feature of the game. Shouldn’t a GCR that’s being commended at least be active at the time of the resolution’s passage? We could commend any GCR in recognition of their golden years.
The reality is TRR is facing some growing pains, it’s in a rough patch, & a commendation doesn’t seem to make as much sense today as it did a few years ago.
by Unibot III » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:17 pm
The Church of Satan wrote:Unibot III wrote:This is not accurate though, the 2011 Constitution was revolutionary in TRR. Barring the RRA & the flag, there is very little continuity between post-2011 TRR, a liberal democracy with an active press, and a pre-2011 TRR that was largely defined by one personality and was often inactive.
I feel like there are different rules & expectations here for legacy commendations.
A legacy commendation for a player or a UCR is done so with the understanding that no player, nor any user-created community can realistically be expected to be a permanent fixture of the game. We have real lives. Our activity is going to wane. Things move on.
A legacy commendation for a GCR is more difficult to justify when a GCR is a permanent feature of the game. Shouldn’t a GCR that’s being commended at least be active at the time of the resolution’s passage? We could commend any GCR in recognition of their golden years.
The reality is TRR is facing some growing pains, it’s in a rough patch, & a commendation doesn’t seem to make as much sense today as it did a few years ago.
I never understood this notion that GCRs are inherently non-commendable/non-condemnable. They have some advantages, yes, but they also have disadvantages that UCRs don't. They lack the security of a founder, they're great big targets, some are reliant on people refounding nations, one can't get rid of anyone, and the rest have to watch their new nations like a hawk to try and determine which ones are looking to take them down. Because the delegate is the top of the in-game pyramid for them. Regional security is a finite thing in GCRs, unlike UCRs where the founder is guaranteed security. We work hard like any other region to keep what we got and make it better.
Yes, TRR is forever. But consider this: governments are not always forever. Lazarus, Osiris, The East Pacific, The South Pacific, The North Pacific, all proof that even for a GCR everything can fall. Was there a (long) period of inactivity? Yes. But the region bounced back. No region is epic all the time (unless there's a region named "epic all the time.") The fact remains however that TRR has done things worthy of commendation. This is proven by the multiple citizens whom have been commended by the Security Council; Crazy Girl, Frattastan II, Guy, Wopruthien, Kandarin, and probably a few others I couldn't remember. So what if we're not dead and gone? That's a good thing. This is a commendation, not a funeral dirge.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by The Church of Satan » Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:46 pm
Unibot III wrote:Note: I am not saying a GCR cannot be considered for a commendation. I’ve proposed a WA commendation for TRR in the past. Few of us would argue that a GCR can’t be considered for a condemnation for reprehensible behaviour, so why shouldn’t they also considered for commendations for extraordinary contributions to NS?
What I am saying is I would expect different standards for a commendation of a GCR than a UCR.
If a player or a region contributed a lot to NS but is now largely no longer active, the WA will likely give them a pass and overlook that to adopt their legacy commendation.
It seems harder to me to justify a commendation for a GCR that is currently inactive when GCRs are forever. Virtually all GCRs have golden years that could be recognized in a commendation. There’s nothing unique about TRR in being able to pinpoint a few years of its life where it was highly successful — TNP can do that; TEP can do that; TSP can do that; Lazarus etc etc etc. I think if a GCR is to be commended, it should be a very strong, active, and vital community, and that commendation should be in jeopardy if and when its presence wanes.
by Unibot III » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:53 am
The Church of Satan wrote:Unibot III wrote:Note: I am not saying a GCR cannot be considered for a commendation. I’ve proposed a WA commendation for TRR in the past. Few of us would argue that a GCR can’t be considered for a condemnation for reprehensible behaviour, so why shouldn’t they also considered for commendations for extraordinary contributions to NS?
What I am saying is I would expect different standards for a commendation of a GCR than a UCR.
If a player or a region contributed a lot to NS but is now largely no longer active, the WA will likely give them a pass and overlook that to adopt their legacy commendation.
It seems harder to me to justify a commendation for a GCR that is currently inactive when GCRs are forever. Virtually all GCRs have golden years that could be recognized in a commendation. There’s nothing unique about TRR in being able to pinpoint a few years of its life where it was highly successful — TNP can do that; TEP can do that; TSP can do that; Lazarus etc etc etc. I think if a GCR is to be commended, it should be a very strong, active, and vital community, and that commendation should be in jeopardy if and when its presence wanes.
How is TRR inactive right now? The Culture Office has been working on a new project for about two weeks straight (it's all hush-hush right now, so no details.) The Rejected Times recently published a new issue, the Culture Calendar is chock full of regularly scheduled events, RejectVision is three days away, the Foreign Affairs Office (alongside the delegate) is working on something (not my department, so no details.) The RMB is all kinds of active (annoyingly so sometimes.) Plus, the RRA is out there every night. We're plenty active, even if it's not making headlines.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Outer Sparta » Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:14 am
by The Church of Satan » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:03 pm
Unibot III wrote:A common complaint that I would cite here with most GCR governments today is they go at great lengths to assure everyone they’re doing something, but without ever doing a whole lot — it’s all “hush-hush.” This isn’t just a TRR problem, it’s a NS problem.
Unibot III wrote:TRT published one good edition, covering stuff that was like eight months old.
Unibot III wrote:The Assembly is spending its time debating tedious amendments to RMB suppression rules & TRT membership. It’s playing at the margins.
Unibot III wrote:The RMB is active but TWP’s RMB is even more active, and they’ve barely had a government for centuries now.
Unibot III wrote:Nobody outside of Discord cares about the goddamn Culture Calendar except the Culture Officer. It’s been a failure for years. Not a soul participates in those RMB activities. The Assembly’s voters have their heads stuck in the sand, evaluating the success of its cultural programs based off their experience in Discord amongst their core group — they’ve blissfully ignored the years-long failure to engage TRRers on the actual NS platform in cultural-political-social activities.
Unibot III wrote:The RRA has been zealously preaching their continued activity since the Old Testament — they’re not even a semi-dominant force in NSGP; it’s a piece of intellectual property that’s been underused and underserved by its private owners, FRA-TGW-ADN ex-pats, who have treated it as a retirement home since before 2009.
Unibot III wrote:The problem with the little circle of people running TRR today is they’re so quick to congratulate themselves and defend their record and success, and quote meaningless statistics (how many detags, RMB posts made etc.) It verges on a Balder-esque approach to non-governing (Balder, of course, claiming to be most culturally active GCR for years, even citing legitimate statistics to back it up.) TRR has kind of become a lot like Balder.
Unibot III wrote:A return to activity would be a return to governing for the region as a whole. Region-wide cultural activities and groups. Pursue legislative changes only when it’s substantive and necessary. Build a foreign policy that situates TRR and its collective interest in today’s context, removed from the friendships and entanglements of each individual resident’s Discord buddies. You need an ethos, a direction, and a drive to engage people beyond the same ten people in your Discord room.
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