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[Passed] Liberate New Western Atlantic

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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Moon II
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Posts: 15
Founded: Aug 24, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Moon II » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:21 am

Tinhampton wrote:The attempted witchhunt against August is, however, disgusting. While "I don't like the author" isn't a good reason to oppose a proposal, it is still a valid reason to do so (see also: Repeal "Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators").

We aren't 'witchhunting' anything. We're calling out a baseless and flaming attack on the author's character for no apparent reason by a respected figure in the Gameplay sphere. Comparing the author to literal doxxers and fascists is something that solidly falls in the territory of OOC attack and goes beyond the "I don't like the author" angle you're trying to prove.

Also, the only reason Liberate CCD is still a thing is because Jocospor and his little cult continues to whine about how they're "being stifled by the GP and WA elite" and have done nothing to disprove of the accusations against them, instead have reinforced people's feelings about it with their affiliations and their behavior. You're forgetting that Kaboomlandia couldn't get their Repeal Liberate CCD proposal to vote and they were a respected SC regular here. So no, that particular angle doesn't hold any water here. There is no witchhunt going on. We're just calling out August's comment because it absolutely deserves to be called out.
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Honeydewistania
Senator
 
Posts: 3875
Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Honeydewistania » Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:47 am

Tinhampton wrote:My support for this proposal, although reluctant, is based on the fact that Andy knows what he's talking about and has been able to substantiate them where site rules allow him to do so.

The attempted witchhunt against August is, however, disgusting. While "I don't like the author" isn't a good reason to oppose a proposal, it is still a valid reason to do so (see also: Repeal "Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators").

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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:51 am

The Python wrote:https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1585815

However, I am opposed, and the reason is simple. (No, it is not because this is an improper use of Liberations. Some AA officials may feel that way, and that is fine, but I do not.) The region has been locked and shuttered for a solid two years now, so the nasty community is (present tense) not there--it is long gone. There is no message. Everyone knows doxxing is bad. On a practical level, this accomplishes nothing, and on an idealistic level, it tells people nothing they do not already know. My reason, then? In the absence of a solid reason to vote in favor, I am opposed due to the author, who in my opinion is just as objectionable as his former compatriots from NWA, and I am not interested in giving him a helping hand in whatever revenge plot he has going on.


Emphasis mine. Did the founder of the AA seriously compare Andy to doxxers??

Yes, they did. Repulsive.
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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:23 am

Image
The Europeian Ministry of World Assembly Affairs recommends a vote FOR the Security Council Resolution, "Liberate New Western Atlantic".
Its reasoning may be found here.

Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
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Quebecshire
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Posts: 1914
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Quebecshire » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:13 am

Tinhampton wrote:The attempted witchhunt against August is, however, disgusting. While "I don't like the author" isn't a good reason to oppose a proposal, it is still a valid reason to do so (see also: Repeal "Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators").

Oh miss me with that shit. People aren't mad at August because he said he doesn't like Andy. The "I'm opposed because of the author" isn't what pissed people off, the "who is as objectionable as his former compatriots in the NWA" is.

I see the URA edited their IFV to cover for him, though. Shame.
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Scalizagasti
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Posts: 192
Founded: Jun 15, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Scalizagasti » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:23 am

Quebecshire wrote:I see the URA edited their IFV to cover for him, though. Shame.

I made a bunch of edits to the IFV this morning to remove the more inflammatory comments/references that were in the dispatch to ensure compliance with on-site rules. For example, explicit references to doxxing and player names. That particular comment was not the only one I altered.
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Quebecshire
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Posts: 1914
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Quebecshire » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:23 am

Given the URA's questionable decision to doctor August's quote (presumably for his or their sakes), here is the pre-edit section of the URA IFV containing the originally quoted comment.

Image
PATRIOT OF THE LEAGUE REDEEMER OF CONCORD
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Benevolent Thomas wrote:I founded a defender organization out of my dislike of invaders, what invading represents, and my desire to see them suffer.
Pergamon wrote:I must say, you are truly what they deserve.

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Quebecshire
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Quebecshire » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:26 am

Scalizagasti wrote:
Quebecshire wrote:I see the URA edited their IFV to cover for him, though. Shame.

I made a bunch of edits to the IFV this morning to remove the more inflammatory comments/references that were in the dispatch to ensure compliance with on-site rules. For example, explicit references to doxxing and player names. That particular comment was not the only one I altered.

August's comment didn't contain either of those things, though. I don't see why it would have been removed other than to attempt to mitigate the vast amounts of (rightful) criticism being thrown at it.
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Benevolent Thomas wrote:I founded a defender organization out of my dislike of invaders, what invading represents, and my desire to see them suffer.
Pergamon wrote:I must say, you are truly what they deserve.

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Hulldom
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Posts: 1573
Founded: Nov 16, 2018
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Hulldom » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:17 am

I don't normally wade into these things but what August said is absolutely disgusting. The URA should recognize that and give Andy a full apology unless they have evidence of August's claims, in which case, do share.
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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:19 am

Quebecshire wrote:Given the URA's questionable decision to doctor August's quote (presumably for his or their sakes), here is the pre-edit section of the URA IFV containing the originally quoted comment.


Thank you!
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Great Algerstonia
Minister
 
Posts: 2617
Founded: Mar 21, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Algerstonia » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:28 am

This entire debacle further proves to me that IC and OOC should not be mixed in the absolute slightest.
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Imperium of Josh
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 195
Founded: Nov 25, 2015
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Imperium of Josh » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:29 am

Great Algerstonia wrote:This entire debacle further proves to me that IC and OOC should not be mixed in the absolute slightest.

And I remain convinced that purging the NWA from the site will amuse me.

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Doge Land
Envoy
 
Posts: 333
Founded: Feb 15, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Doge Land » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:33 am

Is now at vote as of 12:32 PM EDT.

I highly doubt this resolution will be beaten since we have both the delegate of TNP and TSP voting for.
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ShrewLlamaLand
Diplomat
 
Posts: 853
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:36 am

Great Algerstonia wrote:This entire debacle further proves to me that IC and OOC should not be mixed in the absolute slightest.

You're correct.

As far as I know, this "IC consequences for OOC transgressions" theme is a new one, and no other regions have been liberated for similar reasons before. This really should be a mod issue, and if this proposal passes it will only set another poor precident within the Security Council (e.g. like the "offensive liberation" trend which has so far amounted to exactly nothing).
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Quebecshire
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Posts: 1914
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Quebecshire » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:40 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:As far as I know, this "IC consequences for OOC transgressions" theme is a new one

No, it's not. The LCN lost several embassies as the result of our (former) OOC shortcomings, several regions have been liberated on the basis of fascism (an OOC issue), and a major part of the diplomatic collapse of Force was the OOC comments made by the Founder to others, namely Xoriet, and the invocation of OOC things in an attempt for IC leniency.
Last edited by Quebecshire on Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Benevolent Thomas wrote:I founded a defender organization out of my dislike of invaders, what invading represents, and my desire to see them suffer.
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ShrewLlamaLand
Diplomat
 
Posts: 853
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:54 am

Quebecshire wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:As far as I know, this "IC consequences for OOC transgressions" theme is a new one

No, it's not. The LCN lost several embassies as the result of our (former) OOC shortcomings, several regions have been liberated on the basis of fascism (an OOC issue), and a major part of the diplomatic collapse of Force was the OOC comments made by the Founder to others, namely Xoriet, and the invocation of OOC things in an attempt for IC leniency.

I am specifically referring to the use of Liberation proposals as a consequence for OOC transgressions, not IC consequences in general. Fascism is both an IC and OOC issue, so it's not really comparable.
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Jutsa
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5514
Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Jutsa » Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:09 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:You're correct.

As far as I know, this "IC consequences for OOC transgressions" theme is a new one, and no other regions have been liberated for similar reasons before. This really should be a mod issue, and if this proposal passes it will only set another poor precident within the Security Council (e.g. like the "offensive liberation" trend which has so far amounted to exactly nothing).


While I have no idea whether or not this is actually a relatively new affair, I will say this is exactly why I tried repealing the "condemn fascism" declaration. Alas, that didn't even make it to vote. Nor should it have given my poor penmanship.

edit: that said, in this case I'm still perfectly fine with liberating the region anyway.
Last edited by Jutsa on Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hookah Castle
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Posts: 16
Founded: Jan 16, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Hookah Castle » Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:35 pm


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Greater Cesnica
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Posts: 8987
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:01 pm


Please keep posts on topic.

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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
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WayNeacTia
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Posts: 4330
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:34 pm

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Great Algerstonia wrote:This entire debacle further proves to me that IC and OOC should not be mixed in the absolute slightest.

You're correct.

As far as I know, this "IC consequences for OOC transgressions" theme is a new one, and no other regions have been liberated for similar reasons before. This really should be a mod issue, and if this proposal passes it will only set another poor precident within the Security Council (e.g. like the "offensive liberation" trend which has so far amounted to exactly nothing).

Not quite. The Pacific couped Lazarus, Krull and AMOM lost their commendation badges over it.
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Honeydewistania
Senator
 
Posts: 3875
Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Honeydewistania » Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:45 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:You're correct.

As far as I know, this "IC consequences for OOC transgressions" theme is a new one, and no other regions have been liberated for similar reasons before. This really should be a mod issue, and if this proposal passes it will only set another poor precident within the Security Council (e.g. like the "offensive liberation" trend which has so far amounted to exactly nothing).

Not quite. The Pacific couped Lazarus, Krull and AMOM lost their commendation badges over it.

Coups are OOC transgressions now?
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Not A Plant
Secretary
 
Posts: 27
Founded: Feb 22, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Not A Plant » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:46 am

Full Support, hope it passes.

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Central Asian Republics
Diplomat
 
Posts: 771
Founded: Aug 31, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Central Asian Republics » Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:05 am

I'm looking at the region and there's not much activity nor are there many nations, so I'm left wondering as to why the SC is so intent on abusing liberations on this dead region.

I know that malicious liberations have been a standard for years but I still consider it to be contrary to its original purpose.
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Xoriet
Minister
 
Posts: 2046
Founded: Jun 08, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Xoriet » Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:20 am

Central Asian Republics wrote:I'm looking at the region and there's not much activity nor are there many nations, so I'm left wondering as to why the SC is so intent on abusing liberations on this dead region.

I know that malicious liberations have been a standard for years but I still consider it to be contrary to its original purpose.

*Offensive liberations. Malicious would imply that the community at which it is aimed is somehow worth preserving. NWA is no such region.
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Central Asian Republics
Diplomat
 
Posts: 771
Founded: Aug 31, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Central Asian Republics » Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:29 am

Xoriet wrote:
Central Asian Republics wrote:I'm looking at the region and there's not much activity nor are there many nations, so I'm left wondering as to why the SC is so intent on abusing liberations on this dead region.

I know that malicious liberations have been a standard for years but I still consider it to be contrary to its original purpose.

*Offensive liberations. Malicious would imply that the community at which it is aimed is somehow worth preserving. NWA is no such region.

Malicious means harm, which I believe will be the ultimate result for any soon-to-be liberated region currently controlled by a native delegate.
This piece of text is here to grab your attention. Thank you for your attention.

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