American Politics Thread VI: Can't We All Just Get Along?

[Catarapania]

It's simple. The Left has made it clear that there is no room for "God and Guns Conservativism" in their society. So we have elected to fight back against the Leftist agenda by any means necessary.

I don't condone outright deception. I find it deplorable that we have been forced to such measures. I hate Trump with a burning passion for what he turned my party into. But, at the end of the day, the Left is still an existential threat to us. How did you expect us to respond to the Culture War setbacks you foisted upon us during the Obama administration? Roll over and let you marginalize us? Fuck that shit.

Stop acting like a victim. Conservative Christianity is not under attack in the United States, most people are just not agreeing with your on abortion and especially LGBT issues anymore.

It's not the fact that you disagree with me on such subjects that has me worried. It's the fact that you're actively attempting to shove 2000 years of tradition out the Overton Window, and are proud of yourself insofar as you have succeeded. If there's no room for the traditional interpretation of Christianity in polite society, can that society really be said to be committed to religious freedom?

[North Washington Republic]

Stop acting like a victim. Conservative Christianity is not under attack in the United States, most people are just not agreeing with your on abortion and especially LGBT issues anymore.

It's not the fact that you disagree with me on such subjects that has me worried. It's the fact that you're actively attempting to shove 2000 years of tradition out the Overton Window, and are proud of yourself insofar as you have succeeded. If there's no room for the traditional interpretation of Christianity in polite society, can that society really be said to be committed to religious freedom?

I’m not attempting anything. Just because the majority of people disagree with your theology doesn’t mean there isn’t religious freedom. You’re upset because not everyone agrees with you. Religious liberty also means that people have a right not to be religious.

[Fauzjhia]

Stop acting like a victim. Conservative Christianity is not under attack in the United States, most people are just not agreeing with your on abortion and especially LGBT issues anymore.

It's not the fact that you disagree with me on such subjects that has me worried. It's the fact that you're actively attempting to shove 2000 years of tradition out the Overton Window, and are proud of yourself insofar as you have succeeded. If there's no room for the traditional interpretation of Christianity in polite society, can that society really be said to be committed to religious freedom?

religious freedom means you are free to believe in what ever you want, as long as you force your views on others. Its an individual, not a collective rights.
So please, explain how the left is trying to outlaw religious freedom

[Necroghastia]

Stop acting like a victim. Conservative Christianity is not under attack in the United States, most people are just not agreeing with your on abortion and especially LGBT issues anymore.

It's not the fact that you disagree with me on such subjects that has me worried. It's the fact that you're actively attempting to shove 2000 years of tradition out the Overton Window, and are proud of yourself insofar as you have succeeded. If there's no room for the traditional interpretation of Christianity in polite society, can that society really be said to be committed to religious freedom?

Oh, do tell us more about what "traditional interpretation" there's no room for and the 2000-year-old institution that is being shoved out under the administration of a Catholic man.

[Catarapania]

...

Using wedge issues such as religion, abortion and gun rights was a specific strategy by the Republicans from way back in the 70's.. to appeal to those who gut reacted to progressive issues such as rights, specifically to appeal to the South.

Alas these are losing support and narrowing into a smaller and thus concentrated toxic pool of base support that results in Trump supporters, who'll believe anything to cling to their view of 'culture'.

Right-wing Christians are panicking because they’re such a shrinking part of the population.

If we were shrinking, but our beliefs were still seen as valid, it wouldn't be a problem.

[North Washington Republic]

Right-wing Christians are panicking because they’re such a shrinking part of the population.

If we were shrinking, but our beliefs were still seen as valid, it wouldn't be a problem.

People have a right not to view your beliefs as valid. I don’t see the beliefs of Holocaust deniers as valid, but in the United States, they can still express such views.

[Bombadil]

Right-wing Christians are panicking because they’re such a shrinking part of the population.

I mean that's actually a pretty good reason to panic historically speaking. It typically means that one's community may cease to exist soon for lack of ability to continue its practices and self-propagate.

Well it's power struggles right, the post-war consensus of what America stands for is changing and people don't like their deep assumptions challenged.

Republicans could still promote economic responsibility, family and crime, reimagine what a decent society looks like that appeals to the base but allows for less toxic discussion.

[Salus Maior]

It's not the fact that you disagree with me on such subjects that has me worried. It's the fact that you're actively attempting to shove 2000 years of tradition out the Overton Window, and are proud of yourself insofar as you have succeeded. If there's no room for the traditional interpretation of Christianity in polite society, can that society really be said to be committed to religious freedom?

Oh, do tell us more about what "traditional interpretation" there's no room for and the 2000-year-old institution that is being shoved out under the administration of a Catholic man.

Biden being Catholic doesn't mean anything. I don't know why anyone thinks it matters.

How much did Trump's Presbyterianism mean, again? Or Obama's Christianity?

[Salus Maior]

If we were shrinking, but our beliefs were still seen as valid, it wouldn't be a problem.

People have a right not to view your beliefs as valid. I don’t see the beliefs of Holocaust deniers as valid, but in the United States, they can still express such views.

That's a little disingenuous to make a parallel between Holocaust Deniers and Catholics.

[Bombadil]

If we were shrinking, but our beliefs were still seen as valid, it wouldn't be a problem.

People have a right not to view your beliefs as valid. I don’t see the beliefs of Holocaust deniers as valid, but in the United States, they can still express such views.

They can, and people can retort with facts as well.. freedom of expression goes both ways - so you can defend your beliefs, you won't go to jail.

[Necroghastia]

Oh, do tell us more about what "traditional interpretation" there's no room for and the 2000-year-old institution that is being shoved out under the administration of a Catholic man.

Biden being Catholic doesn't mean anything. I don't know why anyone thinks it matters.

How much did Trump's Presbyterianism mean, again? Or Obama's Christianity?

Ask Catarapania. They brought up the "2000 years of tradition" thing.

[Catarapania]

It's not the fact that you disagree with me on such subjects that has me worried. It's the fact that you're actively attempting to shove 2000 years of tradition out the Overton Window, and are proud of yourself insofar as you have succeeded. If there's no room for the traditional interpretation of Christianity in polite society, can that society really be said to be committed to religious freedom?

I’m not attempting anything. Just because the majority of people disagree with your theology doesn’t mean there isn’t religious freedom. You’re upset because not everyone agrees with you. Religious liberty also means that people have a right not to be religious.

You completely ignored my central point. Even if you yourself are not part of the problem, there's a very active section of the populace that is trying to make a commitment to traditional sexual morality out to be "homophobic," and that smears pro-lifers as "misogynists." No one outside of my ingroup will even attempt to understand why my position is the way it is, and if I publically express my views, there go my employment opportunities.

I put it to you that, if someone can't publically state the moral teachings of their religion without being blacklisted, then religious liberty is decidedly lacking.

[Punished UMN]

I mean that's actually a pretty good reason to panic historically speaking. It typically means that one's community may cease to exist soon for lack of ability to continue its practices and self-propagate.

Well, in the United States, we have religious liberty. People are free to be religious as they wish to be, however this also includes the freedom of to be non-religious. Millennials and gen z as whole are leaving religious. I will say that that the millennials and gen z folks that are religious tend to be VERY religious.

The reason that's not comforting for those of us who are religious is that it's not persecution we're afraid of, it's ceasing to exist as viable communities. A lot of religious communities already have pretty crippling demographic decline just from people leaving, and the worry for a lot of us is that as the more atheist mindset becomes the cultural default that practicing our religions will just stop being physically and culturally viable. You don't have to be persecuted to cease to exist.

[Catarapania]

It's not the fact that you disagree with me on such subjects that has me worried. It's the fact that you're actively attempting to shove 2000 years of tradition out the Overton Window, and are proud of yourself insofar as you have succeeded. If there's no room for the traditional interpretation of Christianity in polite society, can that society really be said to be committed to religious freedom?

Oh, do tell us more about what "traditional interpretation" there's no room for and the 2000-year-old institution that is being shoved out under the administration of a Catholic man.

He's certainly not staying true to the moral teachings of his church. If he had been, I would have voted for him.

[The Temple of the Computer]

Oh, do tell us more about what "traditional interpretation" there's no room for and the 2000-year-old institution that is being shoved out under the administration of a Catholic man.

Biden being Catholic doesn't mean anything. I don't know why anyone thinks it matters.

How much did Trump's Presbyterianism mean, again? Or Obama's Christianity?

Donald Trump was a Presbyterian?

[Bombadil]

I’m not attempting anything. Just because the majority of people disagree with your theology doesn’t mean there isn’t religious freedom. You’re upset because not everyone agrees with you. Religious liberty also means that people have a right not to be religious.

You completely ignored my central point. Even if you yourself are not part of the problem, there's a very active section of the populace that is trying to make a commitment to traditional sexual morality out to be "homophobic," and that smears pro-lifers as "misogynists." No one outside of my ingroup will even attempt to understand why my position is the way it is, and if I publically express my views, there go my employment opportunities.

I put it to you that, if someone can't publically state the moral teachings of their religion without being blacklisted, then religious liberty is decidedly lacking.

You can sue against discrimination.. imagine you can't even keep quiet about something that will damage your employment opportunities, like the colour of your skin..

[North Washington Republic]

People have a right not to view your beliefs as valid. I don’t see the beliefs of Holocaust deniers as valid, but in the United States, they can still express such views.

That's a little disingenuous to make a parallel between Holocaust Deniers and Catholics.

I’m making a point that people have a right to view certain worldviews as not valid or immoral. Religious liberty is a two-way street. And I didn’t bring up Catholics.

[Sincluda]

Oh, do tell us more about what "traditional interpretation" there's no room for and the 2000-year-old institution that is being shoved out under the administration of a Catholic man.

He's certainly not staying true to the moral teachings of his church. If he had been, I would have voted for him.

Biden doesn't get his religion involved in his politics. He doesn't want to force his views on others, which is why he's personally pro-life but want pro-choice policies. That's an admirable quality, and my favorite thing about him, even if I'm not raving in support of him.

[Salus Maior]

Biden being Catholic doesn't mean anything. I don't know why anyone thinks it matters.

How much did Trump's Presbyterianism mean, again? Or Obama's Christianity?

Donald Trump was a Presbyterian?

So he said, iirc.

[Catarapania]

He's certainly not staying true to the moral teachings of his church. If he had been, I would have voted for him.

Biden doesn't get his religion involved in his politics. He doesn't want to force his views on others, which is why he's personally pro-life but want pro-choice policies. That's an admirable quality, and my favorite thing about him, even if I'm not raving in support of him.

No, it's not an admirable quality. It's absolute bullshit and hypocrisy.

He deserves to be excommunicated until he repents of his public policies on abortion.

[The Temple of the Computer]

Donald Trump was a Presbyterian?

So he said, iirc.

Wikipedia tells me that he is an Unspecified Protestant, but ok I guess that works too.

[Salus Maior]

He's certainly not staying true to the moral teachings of his church. If he had been, I would have voted for him.

Biden doesn't get his religion involved in his politics. He doesn't want to force his views on others, which is why he's personally pro-life but want pro-choice policies. That's an admirable quality, and my favorite thing about him, even if I'm not raving in support of him.

That's one way you could see it. Another way you can see it is as a man who can easily bend his own apparent principles when it benefits him.

Regardless, there's no such thing as "personally" pro life people. You either are or you're not.

[Bombadil]

So he said, iirc.

Wikipedia tells me that he is an Unspecified Protestant, but ok I guess that works too.

Every belief he has is unspecified.

[North Washington Republic]

Well, in the United States, we have religious liberty. People are free to be religious as they wish to be, however this also includes the freedom of to be non-religious. Millennials and gen z as whole are leaving religious. I will say that that the millennials and gen z folks that are religious tend to be VERY religious.

The reason that's not comforting for those of us who are religious is that it's not persecution we're afraid of, it's ceasing to exist as viable communities. A lot of religious communities already have pretty crippling demographic decline just from people leaving, and the worry for a lot of us is that as the more atheist mindset becomes the cultural default that practicing our religions will just stop being physically and culturally viable. You don't have to be persecuted to cease to exist.

That sounds like work that Conservative Christians need to work on. People are free to leave any religious communities anytime they wish in the United States. It’s not the job of the wider society to push people into religion, that is the job of believers.

[Catarapania]

You completely ignored my central point. Even if you yourself are not part of the problem, there's a very active section of the populace that is trying to make a commitment to traditional sexual morality out to be "homophobic," and that smears pro-lifers as "misogynists." No one outside of my ingroup will even attempt to understand why my position is the way it is, and if I publically express my views, there go my employment opportunities.

I put it to you that, if someone can't publically state the moral teachings of their religion without being blacklisted, then religious liberty is decidedly lacking.

You can sue against discrimination.

Yeah, you think I can afford lawyers? You've got another thing coming.

And even if I could, the judge would just say that I got what was coming to me. That's the way the tide is turning. There's no room for us in society any more. Are you surprised that we fight tooth and nail to the last breath, applying every means at our disposal?