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by Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:13 am
by Ifreann » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:15 am
It's a problem of their own making, it isn't on the rest of the country to provide for them something that they're either unable or unwilling to provide for themselves.
by Maricarland » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:15 am
by Maricarland » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:17 am
CoraSpia wrote:Ifreann wrote:Obviously the answer is to stop treating houses as a commodity. No matter how we fiddle with zoning laws or mortgage regulations or land value taxes, at the end of the day a house will cost money to buy or rent, and some people have no money to spare. So we should stop letting houses cost money. Stop letting people and companies buy and sell houses. Provide housing on the basis of need, not on the basis of profitability, and share the cost of building new houses among everyone. Then we will have solved the housing crisis.
If you can't afford something what entitles you to it?
by Picairn » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:22 am
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Offer tax credits for people who move to the rust belt and move into a city with declining population.
by CoraSpia » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:23 am
by Maricarland » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:24 am
CoraSpia wrote:Ifreann wrote:You understand this perfectly well. You don't care that people without a house have to live on the street, but the rest of us generally do think that it's bad when people suffer needlessly.
What do you mean by needlessly? It's a problem of their own making, it isn't on the rest of the country to provide for them something that they're either unable or unwilling to provide for themselves.
by Ifreann » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:31 am
Maricarland wrote:CoraSpia wrote:What do you mean by needlessly? It's a problem of their own making, it isn't on the rest of the country to provide for them something that they're either unable or unwilling to provide for themselves.
You cannot be serious. The whole reason people enter a social contract and leave a state of nature, is because society is supposed to offer a better way of life than survival of the fittest, is because of the advantages that collectivism offers people, because of what society can provide to its members. You do not have a functioning society if people are not obligated to take care of each other, even if they are unable or "unwilling" to care for themselves. The position you are advocating for is very simply anti-society (or anti-social if you prefer).
by The Socialist Republic of Astrakhan » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:33 am
by CoraSpia » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:47 am
Maricarland wrote:CoraSpia wrote:What do you mean by needlessly? It's a problem of their own making, it isn't on the rest of the country to provide for them something that they're either unable or unwilling to provide for themselves.
You cannot be serious. The whole reason people enter a social contract and leave a state of nature, is because society is supposed to offer a better way of life than survival of the fittest, is because of the advantages that collectivism offers people, because of what society can provide to its members. You do not have a functioning society if people are not obligated to take care of each other, even if they are unable or "unwilling" to care for themselves. The position you are advocating for is very simply anti-society (or anti-social if you prefer).
by Page » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:49 am
CoraSpia wrote:Ifreann wrote:Obviously the answer is to stop treating houses as a commodity. No matter how we fiddle with zoning laws or mortgage regulations or land value taxes, at the end of the day a house will cost money to buy or rent, and some people have no money to spare. So we should stop letting houses cost money. Stop letting people and companies buy and sell houses. Provide housing on the basis of need, not on the basis of profitability, and share the cost of building new houses among everyone. Then we will have solved the housing crisis.
If you can't afford something what entitles you to it?
by Maricarland » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:50 am
Page wrote:CoraSpia wrote:If you can't afford something what entitles you to it?
If your only claim to ownership of private property is a piece of paper and the backing of the state, just glorified warlords and their cops, glorified mercenaries, what entitles you to it?
State violence is the one and only reason people aren't constantly expropriation the excess claimed property of the wealthy.
by CoraSpia » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:13 am
Page wrote:CoraSpia wrote:If you can't afford something what entitles you to it?
If your only claim to ownership of private property is a piece of paper and the backing of the state, just glorified warlords and their cops, glorified mercenaries, what entitles you to it?
State violence is the one and only reason people aren't constantly expropriation the excess claimed property of the wealthy.
by Washington Resistance Army » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:49 am
Equitania wrote:Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Race based class disunity only helps the rich, hard pass. Like, institutional racism is totally a real thing, but people like you actively make shit worse.
On the contrary it is racially unconscious class agitation that has stymied the liberation of my people for decades. All the righteous energy of the civil rights movement became diffused over a multitude of supposed class concerns which, when one looks at the disparties between POC and non-POC, are overwhelmingly actually racial concerns. Not coincidentally there have been few POC among those leading such class based agitation. As in everywhere else in this society the movement to liberate POC became dominated by non-POC individuals.
Equitania wrote:"It'll make the white supremacists mad!" Well goody gumdrops. The idea that POC should focus on the welfare of the non-POC because putting all their effort into their own liberation first will make the white-sheets mad is cowardly. I think you have the naive understanding that I believe in politely negotiating for what is owed to my people. I do not. The only thing that will secure the future of POC is commiting exclusively to our own welfare by any means necessary.
by Ifreann » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:00 am
by Kubra » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:18 am
by Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:29 am
Ifreann wrote:Trying to design a housing policy that won't outrage racists is probably impossible, short of having it explicitly benefit whites only.
by Maricarland » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:30 am
Kubra wrote:remove barriers to foreign investment in the housing market, really drive up prices.
Then when the bubble pops, it's free real estate.
by Kubra » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:32 am
yes.Maricarland wrote:Kubra wrote:remove barriers to foreign investment in the housing market, really drive up prices.
Then when the bubble pops, it's free real estate.
Huh...
If I understand your position correctly, you believe the best way to address the housing crisis is to exacerbate it to the point that it will collapse in on itself.
by Ifreann » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:33 am
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Ifreann wrote:Trying to design a housing policy that won't outrage racists is probably impossible, short of having it explicitly benefit whites only.
Thankfully they aren't a large group in America. The last Klan rally I heard about was canceled when only 4 people showed up and over a thousand protesters arrived. Of course the news portrays it as hundreds of millions of racists but.... sensationalism sells.
by Maricarland » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:34 am
by Kubra » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:41 am
Well, not with that attitude!
by Kowani » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:13 am
Forsher wrote:What is the precise nature of the housing crisis in the US? Is it another "oh noes, people can't do this really specific thing* that they probably shouldn't be doing anyway?" like NZ's popular framing of the housing crisis in NZ**? Or has the US somehow woken up to the fact the way it builds houses is literally bankrupting its towns and cities? Because those are two really different problems, albeit with somewhat similar solutions.
*i.e. buy houses
**The NZ subreddit (here) might as well be renamed "I can't buy real estate". The NZ Herald might as well be renamed "house price monitor".
by Kubra » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:13 pm
No, I'm deadly serious.
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