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1905: Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC-OPEN]

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Novacom
Minister
 
Posts: 2088
Founded: Feb 24, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Novacom » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:04 pm

Tracian Empire wrote:(Image)
Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων
Basileia tōn Rhōmaiōn
The Empire of the Romans



Accepted
Last edited by Novacom on Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Imperial Warglorian Empire
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8104
Founded: Oct 10, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Imperial Warglorian Empire » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:40 pm

Reservation

Nation Name: Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
Territory: PLC territory I formerly reserved (yes, including Cameroon)
#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.
Call me Warg or Antic
Yeah, u do that and I’m gonna have to force u to pull a France, and then a Vichy-Wargloria, after one of his allies proposed pulling an Italy

PROUD MEMBER OF THE FEDERATION OF ALLIES!

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Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37334
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Corrupt Dictatorship

Finished, just need to explain the religion

Postby Benuty » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:34 pm

Full Nation Name : The Golden State of the Rus.
Majority/Official Culture : A Polyglot identity based on the Rus' cultures' hybridization and the Turkic Tribes in the south.
Territorial Core : The territory is shown in the reserved map.
Territorial Claim : The vast expanses of Siberia.
Capital City : Sarai.
Population : Forty five Million.

Government Type : Semi-elective monarchy.
Government Ideology/Policies : Preservation of the Nation, Industrialization, and Social Cohesion.
Government Focus : Cultural Hegemony, and Imperial Preservation
Head of State : The Khagan/Golden Emperor Abd Al-Ahan Khan
Head of Government : High Prince of the Rus Leon Trotsky
Government Description : A union state combined the former arrangement of the Golden Horde in the south and its former tributary states in the north. Reforms made for the sake of necessity have concentrated the polyglot identity of the nation into three power blocs. The city-states of the Rus are lead by princes who pay tributary taxes of money, and crops while engaging in their own level of representation via the Thing (a holdover from their Norse heritage). The Kurultai serves its capacity as the legislature of the Bolgars, Mongols, and Khazars. Then of course there is the princely council which serves as a general advisory body. There is also an independent judiciary for the entire nation as well. The Khagan/Golden Emperor is chosen by election through the Kurultai and has to often deal with the imperial court, bureaucracy, and sometimes the kurultai itself if they hope to not only reform but sustain the system.

Majority/State Religion : Sojournism.
Religious Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

Economic Ideologies : Mixed Economy with bickering between the imperial government, reformers, and traditionalists in the east.

Major Production : Copper, Bauxite, Nickel, Petroleum, Agricultural Products, Fishing, Coal, Gold, and other minerals.

Economic Description : Different areas of the country have vested themselves into different areas of economics. The port principalities cling to trading, and merchants while the interior Rus states prioritize agriculture. The heartland where Sarai is located is a polar opposite to the horde areas. Modern and industrialized clash with the horde areas that are sprawling with forests, and lands for grazing. Several noted bands raid the Siberian for spouses, resources, and anything not nailed down.

Development: Semi-Industrialized.
Development Description : The economic development of the Golden State is highly mixed, to say the least. Novograd, for example, is highly industrialized compared to some of the other Rus principalities which have an agrarian-based economy. The lands of the Sarai area are modernized by western definitions yet go to the east and witness life as the wild west. It's at a crossroads between modernizing and being traditional to put it lightly.


Army Description : Organized via the Golden Writ with Mongolian, Indian, and Persian Tactics these days its assigned as an actual army rather than an excuse to raid, pillage, and conquer. However, there is debate over the direction of the army. Some want a fast, and mobile army while others merely want a defensive one.
Army Weakness : Internally squabbling amongst commanders, ethnic divisions, and the question over what to do with the frontier areas prevent this from being a well-oiled machine. The Golden State desires an efficient army but will have to solve these problems first.
Naval Description : Multiple fleets of varying precision, and skill with a primary focus on defensive military stances, combating piracy, and the enlistment of private merchant fleets
Naval Weakness : The decentralized nature of naval forces has for lack of a better word established several navies who report to different areas. The imperial navy located in the Caspian, and baltic is the only officially controlled government force. Meanwhile, Novgorod pretty much has their own private navies and assist the imperial fleet in matters of piracy. For all intents and purposes, the fleet of the east is privately owned by mercantile interests operating out of the western ports.
Further Military Description : There is disunity amongst the imperial command about the definition that should make up core doctrine for a new, and united military.

National Goals : 1) Revitalization vs Tradition 2) Reform vs Stagnancy 3) A Future vs being stuck in the past.
National Issues : 1) Industrialization needs to be uniformly enforced amongst the various regions, but local autonomy prevents such imperial overreach. As a result, the farther you get from the imperial territory, and the Rus heartland the more agrarian, and nomadic the commonwealth is. The very system which allows Sarai to profit by taxing its principalities to the north have ironically weakened it in other ways. In order to keep the various princes happy or distracted, the golden emperors/khagans over the past have granted them boons, privileges, and kept them bickering over one another.

2) Consolidation of an effective national identity, and government.
National Figures of Interest :
1) Leo Tolstoy: An agrarian, and monastic figure who promotes a pacificist state.

2) Leon Trotsky: Beliefs in the reformation of the Golden State into a Eurasian-styled state following mass democracy, acceptance of multiracial makeup, and a form of collectivism that promotes gradual change in society.

3) Golden Emperor/Khagan: The current holder of the title is Abd Al-Ahad Khan. He is a stern reformist and a no-nonsense ruler from the southern fringes of the imperial heartland. Elected from the Kurultai as a military, and the administrative candidate he will see the commonwealth to greatness before passing from this world.

4) Vladimir Lenin: A radical collectivist who wants to turn the Golden State into a state of perpetual revolution where everyone, and everything is a part of a proletarian dictatorship arranged by the military. The society of his ideal state will be arranged by perpetual warfare, perpetual indoctrination, perpetual nationalism, and perpetual revolution (the four goals). Mankind will build itself a god based on revolutionary virtues, and the executions will continue until the revolution finally has achieved its goals of liberating mankind.

National Ambition/Aspirations : Reformation into a federal structure, and clear definition of the various estates, and branches of power.


History :

Age of the Khazars (650-969)

Pre-Mongol Times (969-1206)

United Mongolian Empire (1206-1227)


Genghis Khan's imperial ambitions in China would not see much success despite him spending much of his life in an attempt to conquer it. Regardless the Mongolians did expand outwards at a rapid pace like no other.

[1211]: Genghis Khan ravages western Xia, but one of his commanders overzealous in their actions attacks a town belonging to the Song dynasty. Following the massacre, the Song proceeded to break off diplomatic relations with the Mongolians.

[1214-1215]: The defeat of Genghis Khan at the infamous battle of Yinchuan by the combined might of Jin, and Song put an end to Genghis and his ambitions in China for the rest of his life. Historians argue that had the battle gone the other way China very well may have begun to fall.

[1217-1221] Genghis Khan begins a campaign into the lands bordering the various states of the Rus, and by 1221 nearly borders them entirely.

[1227]: The Khagan is struck dead during a battle against the Bolgars inhabiting near the Volga river. Despite winning the battle that day the offensive is stalled in part due to the necessity of arranging a kurultai to elect a new Khagan.

The Mongolian Empire Cracks (1228-1267)


[1228] Batu Khan is appointed over the far reaches of the western portions of Genghis Khan's empire.

[1236] The Bolgars on the Volga river fall in part due to the efforts of Batu Khan. He rests for the remainder of the year before beginning an offensive into the Rus.

[1237-1242] Batu Khan's conquest of the Rus states is incredibly bloody and violent with hundreds of thousands being put to the sword, and several cities burned to the ground. Batu Khan began to turn his attention to Europe even going so far as to sack several polish towns, and cities before falling strangely ill.

[1256] The reign of Sartaq Khan while incredibly short does bring one incredible change, and that is the sponsorship of Judaism as a state religion after a series of engagements with wandering mystics.

[1267] Khan Khaishan who is ruling in Mongolia goes against the advice of other Mongol rulers and launches an attack on Jin dynasty lands in China. While the dynasty pushes back the Mongols. The dynasty still is heavily devastated from the raids, but this proves to be the last straw as the other major Mongol rulers separate from Mongolia.

The Golden Horde, and the World [1267-1359]


[1274] The first attempt by Kublai Khan of Mongolia to invade Japan.

[1281] A second attempt by Kublai Khan of Mongolia to invade Japan.

[1281-1312] As the authority of the old Mongol heartland began to decline especially in the face of Kublai Khan's repeated failures to expand into China or Japan the Golden Horde began to look west rather than east. During this time the Khans of the Golden Horde earn the moniker of "Patriarchs" like more, and more Mongolians listen to them and flock to their banners to ring in conquest after conquest. A division in the Jewish presence began to occur with some scholars claiming that the Torah hadn't been written by Moses. The truth could only be found in the first book of Genesis, and that the "mosaic invention" could be debunked by simply looked at the state of Jerusalem.

[1313-1341] Reign of Uzbeg Khan: This khan allowed visitation by Buddhist lamas and Tengrist Mongols from the old homeland. The Golden Horde under Uzbeg saw a flourishing of trade especially with merchants from the port cities of the Romans, and the land trade brought from Persia. Sarai exploded in growth from all this trade with a grand synagogue being built in the center of the city as well as libraries, and markets. Uzbeg listened to the rabbinical complaints concerning the state of the serfs, and issue commands to reform the system. During his reign it is stated that 300,000 men were in the military at one point.


[1342–1357] Reign of Jani Beg Khan: Following a short dynastic war with his brothers Jani Beg the son of Uzbeg Khan firmly cemented his power. His policy of actively interfering the politics of the Rus tributary states would ultimately come to backfire on him. Some historians think during a siege he used catapults to launch dead body parts into a city as part of a terror campaign. This is believed to have spread the great black death across Europe whether intentional or not.

Centuries of Trouble [1359-1480]


[1359-1381] The various states of the Rus attempt to form coalitions in several phases in an attempt to drive out the Golden Horde. By the 1370s they eventually succeeded if only for a short time as the Golden Horde assembled an army to reclaim the area.

[1381-1419] The Golden Horde would reclaim the Rus by blood, and in one infamous example, they tricked the Muscovites into surrendering on false promises. The commanders ordered the slaughter of the city. While the resistance by the Rus was put down the political leadership was unstable, and despite the reunification, the country was hardly in an ideal situation. Eventually, several contenders emerged, and in one case the capital of Sarai burned to the ground. Thanks to the fall of Mongolia to the Chinese there was no outside coming not even in the slimmest of chances.

[1420-1480] With Sarai gone, and the power vacuum beyond recovery the Golden Horde effectively fell within itself. Several different khanates formed, and the princes of the Rus didn't benefit from this as they had hoped. The khanates warred with them as much as they had each other. The polish even launched offensives effectively occupying several princely states.

End of the Fall, and Babur's dynastic coupling (1480-1862)


[1480-1494] The last fourteen years of the centuries-ridden war period would end, and see the rise of the Indian influenced dynasty of Babur Khan. Babur Khan would reestablish the Golden Horde as a tributary state and swiftly dealt with the rebellious Rus city-states.

[1494-1530] Reign of Babur Khan: Babur Khan a conqueror many compare to Genghis Khan managed to pierce into both India and the Rus. Initially ruled as one empire its vastness was a monument to his legacy as much as a burden. Babur didn't follow the Jewish majority faith or even the Tengrist faith, but rather Islam which caused some to wonder what direction the lands would be taken in, but Babur proved tolerant.

[1530-1551] Reign of Hindal Mirza: The tributary state of the Golden Horde is gifted to the third son of Babur Khan. Educated by Persian masters from Mongolian Persia, and Indian masters employed by his father Hindal Mirza chose to take the title of Khan rather than the traditional Khagan to avoid offense, and show his status within the new structure leading from India. However domestically the once great capital of Sarai was rebuilt, and a princess from Moscow was taken as a consort to demonstrate the partnership necessary from the princedoms.

[1551-1626] Reign of Ruqaiya Sultan Begum: Tributary Khaness, and Consort to the Mughal Emperor Akhbar the 1st. Between Spending time in India, and Persia she brought forth new architectural styles, and even ordered the construction of the Sun-Throne. It would have been an affront to Akbar the 1st, but following his death in complete control until here death in 1626.

[1626-1695] Reign of Shahryar Mirza: The youngest son of Mughal emperor Jahangir, he was exiled for political trickery in trying to usurp the Mughal throne from his older brother. He would have very well died had it not been for a warning from supporters. He found himself in Sarai without purpose until the Kurultai chose him as a leader. He diminished the status of his realm as a tributary and effectively declared independence. He assumed the title of Khagan and first crowned himself the Golden Emperor. Shahryar sponsored the Sojournist faction and officially changed the official realm faith from Judaism to the Sojournist beliefs in a mass conversion. While the previous leaders of the Babur dynasty had been of others faiths this was no longer to be the case. Shahryar's reign even saw the welcoming of Mongol, and Persia exiles fleeing the end of Mongol rule in Persia and a return to the Hellenistic system.

Publication of the Golden Writ

Structure of the Imperial Government: Re-established the Mongolian Kurultai, but for the moment as an advisory body available to Mongolians, Turkic, and other people of the steppes. The princely council would be established as an advisory body to represent the people of the Rus who were equals rather than vassals to be brutalized and subjugated. Imperial provinces would be regulated by governors responsible for tax collection, and the ministers of the government would be known by their title of Viziers. In order to prevent corruption, a revenue department was founded to keep an eye on governors. There would be an official bureaucracy in charge of the royal bodyguard, royal court, and royal government.

A separate judiciary was founded to ensure fairness for the diversity of peoples, and beliefs.

Military: The military would be based on a system of appointments and promotes in regards to the imperial military. The elite of the military is formed from the four clans which comprise the Mingghans (Mongol regiment of 1,000) dating back to the clans sent over from Mongolia to aid the former Golden Horde. Persian and Indian tactics were integrated into the military as well. The official standing army is relatively small compared to the population size of the country these days. The highest it has ever gotten has been 300,000.

[1695-1706] Reign of Gauhar Ara Begum: Fourteenth, and Youngest child of the Mughal Shah Jahan. Witness her brother's death, and somehow ended up as the Khaganess, and Golden Empress. No one is quite sure how, but with the death of Shahryar's children, no one was electable until the Kurultai found her. Despite being only ruler for eleven years she spent time modernizing the military, conversing with scholars, and updating the law. She died at 74 years old in Sarai. Her death lead to a period of great decline.

[1706-1837] A period of decline of the realm due to the machinations of the imperial court with weak Khagans/Emperors.

[1837-1862] Bahadur Khan II: A Khagan/Emperor stuck between reform, and being a puppet of the bureaucracy. Unlike others who spent their time locked away in Sarai he chose to spend it amongst the people. Encouraging industrialization to catch up with the west, and tried to link the empire together. Ultimately he, and his sons were assassinated by a group of anarchist luddites on his way back to Sarai one day.

The Interregnum [1862-1885]
The assassination of the Khagan/Emperor sparked the military to seize control when no immediate candidate could be chosen by Kurultai. The military shared power with the Kurultai initially but gradually became more dictatorial to clamp down on Rus secessionism, and the rise of the Liberationists groups.

[1862-1876] The Liberationists War: Unlike previous wars of nationalistic concern the liberationists lead by Mikhail Bakunin were interested in the total liberation of society from the need of the state. The principality of Tver is overthrown, and Bakunin declares the establishment of the "free assembly". Historians refer to it unofficially as the Free Assembly of Tver. The early phase of the war was confined to the principalities until the last assembly fell in 1867. The fall of Tver triggered the "Arduous March" (1867-1869) in which the remaining Liberationists fled, and consolidated past the Volga.

This allowed the creation of a new "free region", and it was able to recuperate until 1872 when the military launched an offensive eThe military was pushed ba the first few timesck the first few times, but eventually, by 1875 a major counteroffensive breached into their territory. By the end of 1876, Bakunin was brought to face trial in Sarai and then hanged.

[1876-1885] Rule of the High Prince of the Rus: Due in part to the Kurultai's indecisiveness a uniquely democratic feature of the Golden Writ came into play. Asking for help from the Rus princedoms. The High Prince of the Rus was the first start to a new era and chosen every four years. The most prominent role they played being the integration of the Rus states.


Time of Revolution, and Upheaval [1885-Present]


[1885] The kurultai elect Abd Al-Ahad Khan as the Khagan and Golden Emperor. He presents himself as a stern reformist in the midst of an empire of a quagmire. He firstly proposes the "two nations" theory in part due to the growing discontent between the Russians, and the Russo-Mongolians. In his inauguration speech, he claims that both Russia and Mongolia need each other to survive due to how intertwined the two are.

[1887] Opponents of the two nations theory form the Rus revitalization league. The general intent is to secure the primacy of the Rus within the commonwealth, but how the faction means to achieve this is currently unknown due to several divergent schools of thought operating.

A) Rus Unity Party: Belief in the culture, religion, language, and the people that share a common bond despite the ethnic differences.
Beliefs in placing the Rus, its culture, and language as the source of primacy within the union. They also believe the principalities should be abolished, and unified as one nation.

B) Russian Autonomous Group: Believes in the unification of a Rus state, but as a co-equal to the imperial heartland.

C) Russian Independence Coalition: Believes in the unification of a completely independent Rus state.

[1900] The National Reform Congress forms with a coalition of several ideologies that while contradictory at several points intend on reforming the Golden Commonwealth into a proper nation.

[1904] Following a massacre of naval dock workers in the Rus principality of Novogorad a revolutionary by the name of Vladimir Lenin stirs the principalities workers into revolution. The Collectivist republic is founded but crushed brutally within a year. Vladimir Lenin is said to be hiding in the wilds waiting his chance.
The Collectivist Republic of Pskov is established, and Lenin visits the imperial capital assuring that the revolution is merely an internal matter, and this is just a change in governance. The republic is still part of the commonwealth, but simply under new management.

[1905] Chairman of the Eurasian Society Leon Trotsky is elected as High Prince of the Rus. He begins talks with the imperial court, government, and reformist elements of the country to launch a massive change initiative for the country. Rumors from Sarai allege his efforts are making considerable progress, and upon the next imperial speech the emperor will supposedly announce incoming changes.

RP Sample: You know who I am.

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)
Last edited by Benuty on Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity. Please be aware my posts in NSG, and P2TM are separate.

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Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26891
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:27 am

The Imperial Warglorian Empire wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
Territory: PLC territory I formerly reserved (yes, including Cameroon)
#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.

I'm sorry Warg, but Osc misunderstood, you can not just re-reserve things. I'm sorry that we need to be a more brutal with reservations and deadlines, but it's unfair to potential new players to mark an area as reserved and then just have the player in question never finish an app.

If and when you finish your PLC app, if at the moment the regions you're trying to claim are unclaimed, it will be as if you finished your app to begin with, we'll put you back on the map and review your app. So since I do want to see you in the roleplay, my advice would be the same as in the announcements over in Discord - cut the bloat, and try to post the app.
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

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Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26891
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:52 am

Benuty wrote:Full Nation Name : The Golden State of the Rus.


#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

Generally the app is almost finished, but please finish the government description section.

Other than that, Trotsky was born in a village in Ukraine that would be under Polish-Lithuanian control or at the very least outside your borders. If we do not get a Polish-Lithuanian player then you can have him, but until then we will operate under the rule that the nations controlling the birthplaces of historical figures have precedence. You can try to use another Russian revolutionary figure for his position.

Other than that I could accept your app, but one element that I think is quite crucial to your concept is the entire Judaism connection, and then development of this Sojornism religion, isn't explained well enough to be acceptable. You should try to better explain it and emphasize what happened, and what the current religious situation is
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

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The Imperial Warglorian Empire
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8104
Founded: Oct 10, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Imperial Warglorian Empire » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:13 am

Tracian Empire wrote:
The Imperial Warglorian Empire wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
Territory: PLC territory I formerly reserved (yes, including Cameroon)
#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.

I'm sorry Warg, but Osc misunderstood, you can not just re-reserve things. I'm sorry that we need to be a more brutal with reservations and deadlines, but it's unfair to potential new players to mark an area as reserved and then just have the player in question never finish an app.

If and when you finish your PLC app, if at the moment the regions you're trying to claim are unclaimed, it will be as if you finished your app to begin with, we'll put you back on the map and review your app. So since I do want to see you in the roleplay, my advice would be the same as in the announcements over in Discord - cut the bloat, and try to post the app.

Fair enough, that's what I first assumed too
Call me Warg or Antic
Yeah, u do that and I’m gonna have to force u to pull a France, and then a Vichy-Wargloria, after one of his allies proposed pulling an Italy

PROUD MEMBER OF THE FEDERATION OF ALLIES!

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The Imperial Warglorian Empire
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8104
Founded: Oct 10, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Imperial Warglorian Empire » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:31 am

Full Nation Name: Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
Majority/Official Culture: Polish, Lithuanian, Ukranian and Belarussian
Territorial Core: Borders of the PLC in 1569 minus German territories and most of Livonia except Courland and Riga, Cameroon, western half of Ukraine coast
Territorial Claim: Gdansk, Livonia, possibly Prussia, Smolensk, the other half of Ukraine, Moldavia, Pskov, Silesia, Pomerania
Capital City: Warsaw
Population: 45 Million

Government Type: Constitutional Parliamentary Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies: State Civic Nationalism, Social Democratism/Socialism, Secularism, Liberalism, Expansionism, Imperialism, Slight Militarism
Government Focus: Keeping up with fellow powers in industrial development, ensuring unity among the various ethnicities of the commonwealth, preparing for further expansion into claimed territories
Head of State: Adam I, King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania
Head of Government: Kanclerz wielki Gabriel Narutowicz
Government Description:
Based on the May Constitution, the PLC is split into three branches: the Executive Branch, the Legislative Branch and the Judiciary.

The Legislative Branch, the Sejm, is a bicameral parliament. The Chamber of Deputies (popularly just known as the Sejm) (lower chamber) contains two deputies from every Powiat (county) who are elected on a local level by each Powiat, as well as an additional five deputies per every major ethnic minority in the commonwealth, selected via the Federal State Sejms (see further below). The Senate (upper chamber) is composed of landed nobility, aristocrats, religious officials and government ministers who do not have the right to vote. Where the Chamber of Deputies is presided over by a Marshal of the Sejm (Speaker of the House) who is voted in by the Chamber's Deputies, the Senate is presided over by the King themself. Both the Deputies of the Sejm and the King had the right to legislative initiative, of which "general" laws required a simple majority from first the Chamber of Deputies and then the Senate, whereas "special" resolutions" (eg: confirming alliances, declarations of war, etc) required a majority of both chambers voting jointly. The Senate has a suspensive veto over laws the Sejm passed, though they could be overruled (note that the liberum veto was never established).

The Sejm is currently dominated by two coalitions:
-The People’s Vanguard (left-wing coalition between CSP, Wyzwolenie Party and SDKPiL)
-The Poland First Front (right-wing coalition between Piast Party and National Democrats)

Furthermore, due to the various ethnic nationalist movements rising up during the 1848 Revolutions, a compromise was reached in which a form of devolution occurred. The PLC was federalised, with the Commonwealth being divided along ethnic lines into various ethnic subdivisions, each with its own local Sejm to rule over each ethnic sub-state (including a Ukrainian, Belarussian, Polish, Lithuanian, Latvian and, after much deliberation, Cossack subdivision each with their own Sejm). These Federal State Sejms, however, are completely subject to the will of the National Commonwealth Sejm (which remains nominally under Polish control), unable to overturn any law or decree the National Sejm should impose upon them.

The Executive Branch, the Guardian of Laws, is a council of administrators who help execute the will of the Sejm in governing the PLC. The Council is typically composed of six monarch-appointed ministers: the Guardian of Police, the Guardian Belli (of War), the Guardian of Foreign Affairs, the Guardian of the Treasury, the Guardian of Education and the Guardian of the Seal (of Internal Affairs), of which each oversaw the operations of their own Commission (Department/Ministry). One should note that the Guardian of the Seal is popularly referred to as "Chancellor" and is typically the Head of Government, while the Guardian of Education has traditionally been held by the Archbishop of Poland, though there have been exceptions. In addition to these King-appointed ministers, members of the council also include (without a vote) the Marshal of the Sejm, the Crown Prince and two Royal Secretaries.

The Guardian of Laws is completely and utterly subjected to the will of the Sejm and is not allowed to interpret laws passed by the Sejm, only to implement them as intended. While the King can implement acts (similar to Executive Orders), they require the countersignature of the respective Guardian. A Guardian of the Laws can be impeached in two ways: either via a 2/3rds vote of no confidence by members of both chambers of the Sejm or it could be held accountable by the Sejm Court (Judiciary), upon which the Sejm could choose to demand an impeachment via a simple majority vote.

The Judiciary is served by elective judges: on the national level the Sejm Court, a judiciary body that rules on the constitutional liability of high ranking officials and has the power of Judicial Review, is composed of deputies from the Sejm voted into the position by their own ranks. On the local level, Courts of First Instance exist in each voivodeship and are elected by regional assemblies.

The Monarchy has still remained an elective one, though due to the rise of Pan-Commonwealth and Polish Nationalism in recent decades it has become more of an unofficial norm for native Commonwealth/Polish nobles to be elected over foreign ones. This is not to say that foreign kings haven't been elected, with Adam I having initially been born a French citizen (albeit of a Polish House of Lithuanian-Ruthenian descent) before moving to the PLC upon being elected to the throne.

Majority/State Religion: Secularism (official)/Catholicism (Majority)
Religious Description: Though the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth is officially a secular state, famed for its near unheard levels of religious tolerance for many years, the majority of the country is Catholic.

Economic Ideologies: Mixed Economics (Capitalist economy with socialist/interventionist policies)
Major Production: Crops, cattle, linen
Economic Description: The PLC, with its vast amount of farmland and ideal weather, has an absolutely massive amount of crops and other foodstuffs in production, being the PLC’s primary and biggest source of exports. It is arguably, with considerable evidence, the breadbasket of Europe.

Due to the nature of the Commonwealth Socialist Party in power, the PLC advocates heavy amounts of government intervention, such as introducing 8-hour workdays, minimum wages, social welfare programs for workers and more. Yet unlike their Marxist counterparts, the Socialists recognise the boons and necessity of capitalism, and so do not go over into the realm of a planned economy (much to the frustration of their Communist brethren).

Development: Modern (urban)/Developing (countryside)
Development Description: Due to early democratisation and liberalisation of the economy, the nation has only been able to rapidly economically and industrially develop over time as competition and innovation drove it forwards. This has only been taken to greater heights as the interventionist policies of the new socialist government has allowed for long term economic planning which has only further increased the PLC's rate of development. Yet, as is the case with most Eastern European countries, the rural areas have been lagging behind, though this is catching up especially under the agrarian-socialist government of the Vanguardists.

Army Description: The PLC retains a standing professional army of 400,000 soldiers and has mandatory conscription laws for young men that allow it to bring up an army or reservists at any time.

The Commonwealth Army has both evolved and kept many of the traditions of its ancestors. The Army is based around a core of fast-moving heavy elite shock troops: the descendants of the PLC's famed Towarzysz Cavalry, particularly the Winged Hussars. Though historically composed of predominantly cavalry, recent developments in technology have meant that a large infantry component has also grown to take up this role: usually composed of more physically imposing and extremely fit men and much more heavily armed than their regular counterparts. These "Shock Armies," as their name implies as well as their tradition, are not intended for prolonged front-line combat (though they can take up that role superbly as well). Rather, it is to exploit weaknesses in enemy positions and breakthrough them to allow for the rest of the army to flow in. These Towarzysz Divisions are typically made up of mostly Poles and Lithuanians, though that limit has gradually begun to expand to include the other ethnicities of the PLC.

Commonwealth Army doctrine has also put a large emphasis on artillery as tools of war: mass bombardment to soften up and break up an enemy before an infantry push being a key part of Army planning.

The Commonwealth Army also contains a large number of specialist troops due to the multiethnic nature of the country. Most notable are the Cossacks, famed masters of the horse and an effective light cavalry skirmisher force.

In terms of training, it has a rather developed Military Education infrastructure, with various War Colleges and Academies allowing for the thorough high-quality education of potential officers, allowing for the creation of many competent leaders in the army.

Army Weakness: Due to the terrain nature of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Commonwealth Army is specially formatted towards combat on grasslands, hills and flatlands, as well as pinpoint strikes and quick manoeuvring on the front. Terrain (such as mountains or heavy forest) in which it could get heavily bogged down into a war of attrition could cause problems for the army's effectiveness.

A further potential problem is the multiethnic nature of the army. Though rules and regulations require that all officers require at least some understanding of Polish, the many different cultural backgrounds leave the potential for miscommunication. Furthermore, rising ethnic tensions might mean potential infighting within the Army's very ranks.

It also unfairly favours the aristocracy, though this is a problem being actively pursued by the socialist government.

Naval Description: The Commonwealth Navy is rather modest compared to its various counterparts, mainly focused on coastal defence and convoy escort, with an emphasis on modern cruisers and destroyers with a core of coastal defence ships and battlecruisers. Emphasis has been placed on fast-moving and well-armed warships that can both escort the many trade convoys that could potentially find themselves in hostile waters as well as speedily patrol the coastline of the PLC and, if necessary, commit to harassment operations against enemy fleets and convoys.

Due to the lack of major shipyards, the Navy concentrates on the quality and survivability of each warship.

Naval Weakness: The lack of major naval dockyards means that the capacity for the PLC to mass-produce fleets of warships are vastly reduced, limiting the number of ships that could be amassed in its fleet. Furthermore, its lack of major capital warships means that its ability to fight major fleet on fleet engagements are severely limited.

Further Military Description: The Commonwealth Legions are a force similar to the French Foreign Legions. Historically, they were a state-sponsored mercenary army though that's now no longer the case. Foreigners and convicts can join the Legion and gain either pardons for the latter and citizenship for the former upon completion of service.

National Goals: To establish the PLC as the premier power in Eastern Europe and to ensure its sovereignty
National Issues: Growing ideological divide between right and left, Nationalist ethnic tensions threatening to tear apart the Commonwealth
National Figures of Interest :
-Józef Piłsudski (Guardian Belli of Commonwealth Socialist Party)
-Stanisław Wojciechowski (Leader of Centre-Right “Piast” Party)
-Ignacy Ewaryst Daszyński (Marshal of the Sejm and Deputy Leader of the CSP)
-Roman Dmowski (Wódz of the National Democratic Party)
-Rosa Luxemburg (Chairwoman of the SDKPiL)
-Feliks Dzierżyński (Head of SDKPiL Paramilitary and secret director of the Służba Bezpieczeństwa (SB, secret service))
-Karl Radek (Head of SDKPiL Newspaper)
National Ambition/Aspirations: To firmly establish the Socialist ideology permanently into the spirit of the PLC and to expand the borders of the PLC into claimed lands.

History: The history of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth first majorly diverges from the original before its very conception with the reign of King Boleslaw II. Rather than being deposed in a coup, Boleslaw instead managed to both execute the Bishop Stanislaus who had excommunicated him as well as crush the magnate conspiracy against him. This meant that an excommunicated individual reigned at the head of the Kingdom of Poland, leading to an awkward and tense relationship between Poland and the Pope in Rome. This tension would only further worsen as the Papacy would grant Stanislaus the title of “Saint;” a clear slight against King Boleslaw II and his Polish subjects, at least according to the Polish people.

This tension, along with the Polish-Lithuanian rivalry with the Habsburgs, would culminate in the PLC intervening in the deadly 30 Years War on the side of the Protestants, particularly fighting alongside their vassal state in the Duchy of Prussia.

Disaster would almost come during the Second Northern War when the PLC’s armies were crushed by the Swedes and much of the country fell into Swedish occupation while Khazarian armies invaded from the East. The “Swedish Deluge” as it would be known, while an embarrassment to the Commonwealth state, would not result in the horrendous ravaging as in the original timeline, with Polish Lithuanian armies regrouping and organising continued resistance against the Swedish invaders. The tables began to turn on the Swedish as the PLC slowly reversed their fortunes in the war and pushed the Scandinavians back. Further pressuring the Swedish was the neutral Duchy of Prussia which, though granted sovereignty and independence by the Swedish, threatened to turn on their Swedish "liberators" on the side of their previous allies (albeit, with secret offerings of territorial and economic concessions on the side of the Polish-Lithuanians). These factors would force the Swedish into a peace agreement which, though still an overwhelming victory for the Swedish Empire, was not the devastating massacre for the PLC it could have been.

When peace with the Swedes was negotiated, the PLC (its economy not horribly plundered) managed to turn their full attention to the Khazarians and push them out of the PLC, with only minor concessions in the following peace treaty.

The Great Northern War would see the PLC recover much of its lost territory and reclaim its prestige from the Deluge, allowing it to reclaim its place among the pre-eminent powers in Eastern Europe.

In order to secure its safety in Europe, the PLC would make efforts to forge a strong alliance with the rising power of Prussia, handing over minor territorial concessions in return for the PLC supporting Prussia in its various military and political efforts. This alliance would go as far as the PLC intervening in the Silesian War on the side of the Kingdom of Prussia.

-May Constitution was adopted due to an attempted seizure of power by the King and various noblemen and an attempted overthrowing of the Sejm due to fears that the French Revolution might destabilise the PLC through its democratic institutions. This resulted in a brief yet bloody civil war during the turn of the century during which the Absolute Monarchists were crushed. Foreign powers were held at bay by a re-affirmed Commonwealth-Prussia alliance when the Sejmists promised Prussia the territory of Gdansk in return for an alliance and support against the Monarchists.

With the adoption of the Constitution and the coming of the industrial revolution, the PLC entered an era of economic prosperity, as a burgeoning middle class began to rise and industrialisation swept across the nation. The PLC was progressing rapidly politically and abolishing serfdom and granting more protections and liberties to the people.

Yet, not all was well for the PLC at this time. A sharp rise in industrial development, as usual, led to technological advancement outpacing social welfare, as workers and peasants soon found themselves in deplorable conditions under the thumb of industrialists, aristocrats and business magnates. Infighting in the PLC would also come not just to classes, but also to nationalities, as nationalism spread across Europe and began agitating the various ethnicities under PLC rule. Nationalist sentiments among minorities would be less problematic than others across Europe, as the rights and protections afforded to them under the PLC far outweighed the risk of falling under Khazarian or Austrian oppression, which would find their rights assuredly less respected. Rather, the greatest problem would arise from Nationalist sentiments among the majority as a wave of Polish Nationalists would rise; demanding that the Commonwealth either be dissolved in favour of a sovereign Polish state or that it be fully Polished (bdm tsh) at the expense of its minorities.

This would come to a boiling point in 1848, when Polish Nationalists (supported by various Polish conservatives and noblemen) would rise up and attempt to seize power while the PLC was distracted by the Second Scandinavian Revolutionary War. At this rise of Polish Nationalists, the nationalists of other ethnic minorities within the PLC would also rise up in response, almost tearing the entire Commonwealth apart. Though these uprisings were eventually crushed, they left the PLC economy in near shambles, resulting in even further hardship for the country’s people.

This economic hardship and a new wave of fear of Conservative Ethnic Nationalism that had threatened to tear the Commonwealth apart and the continued exploitation of the working class led to a significant rise of Socialism in the country. Though initially disparate and split among ethnic groups, these Socialist movements soon realised that in order to make a real impact in the nation they had to band together, culminating in the founding of the Commonwealth Socialist Party. While the CSP promoted progressive policies which favoured and supported the common people and working class, it also promoted Pan-Commonwealth Nationalism: the idea that despite their different cultures, the peoples of the Commonwealth should stand together as if a single people, and that the Commonwealth state ascended any such ethnic boundaries, as proven again and again throughout history.

The CSP would initially gain a noteworthy yet still relatively minor following. To compensate, the CSP would form an alliance with the centre-left agrarian Wyzwolenie Party which enjoyed significant support from most of the PLC's rural population.

-CSP and Wyzwolenie Party form the "People's Vanguard Coalition"
-In the time preceding and during the Third Scandinavian Revolutionary War, the CSP is funded by Scandinavian Socialists to cause social dissent and disrupt the war effort.
-The Revolutionary War, though gains the PLC Riga, also leaves it blockaded by the Scandinavians, effectively making its Baltic ports and trade useless. This, plus previous economic turmoil and the costs of the war, leave the PLC economy in turmoil.
-The economic slump, plus the support from the Scandinavian Socialists during the war, allow the CSP to rapidly expand. By the late 1880s, it becomes one of the largest parties in the Sejm. The Vanguard Coalition eventually includes the "Social Democracy of the Kingdom of Poland-Lithuania," a Radical Marxist movement headed by Rosa Luxemburg.
-In response, a rise of right-wing conservative nationalism occurs in opposition to the Vanguard Coalition. Fearing the rapid rise of the Socialists, the Piast Party (a large Centre-Right conservative Christian Democratic party and the largest of its kind) forms an alliance with the growing National Democratic Movement: a conservative and Polish Ultranationalist movement, a descendent of the Polish Nationalist Revolutionaries during the 1848 Revolutions. The "Poland First Front" is formed.
-By the mid 1890s King Adam I, newly crowned King of the PLC, is conflicted. Himself a Conservative and more on the centre-right of the spectrum (as monarchies do), he desires to create a cabinet out of the centre-right, yet fears that doing this will pave the way for the National Democrats to take over. Pressured by the popularity of the Socialists and himself more inclined towards Pan-Commonwealth Nationalism and long term stability, Adam I decides to create a cabinet led by the already leading Vanguard Coalition and mostly the CSP.
-Now in control, the CSP is able to implement many of its radical reforms in government, turning the country into an interventionist welfare state. This allows it to grow in popularity among many in the lower classes, yet angers the conservatives. The country, though currently thriving economically and progressively, is heading towards future potential instability.

RP Sample: No, I'm not a Nazi. I just enjoy RPing bad guys and love "The New Order: Last Days of Europe" mod.

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Last edited by The Imperial Warglorian Empire on Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:32 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Tracian Empire
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:37 pm

The Imperial Warglorian Empire wrote:Full Nation Name: Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

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  • The population is too high. The combined population of the areas under your control that I could find is of around 39,685,759. A tamer Deluge and no Partitions could help explain an increase in population, but not by that much, 45 million would probably be the most.
  • Development would most likely still be somewhat fractured. Even with a more proactive government, the PLC would still be an Eastern European country. The Industrial Revolution would get there a bit later, and areas in the Ukraine and Belarus have traditionally been somewhat sparsely populated and more unruly than Poland and Lithuania proper, so it's likely that the rural areas there would still lag behind, in a way not too dissimilar to Austria-Hungary's West/East divide in real life.
  • As for the army, I find it difficult to believe that it would be completely meritocratic, no army in this era was, and the PLC, where the nobility still clearly plays some role, clearly wouldn't. The army should also probably be further reduced in standing size, Germany had a standing army of 606.866 men in 1904 as an example, and it was much larger and more militarized. 350,000 to 400,000 standing men would probably make the most sense I feel.
  • The Commonwealth Legions could have been a thing historically, but are unlikely to still be a thing in the way you describe them - no modern state would entrust its defense to a mercenary force. They could still be something closer to the French Foreign Legion, but it would need to be a relatively small force, as it wouldn't be that trusted - and as mentioned several times in the past, women serving actively in the military at this point is impossible.
  • The history is mostly alright, though you would need to explain the May Constitution. It was such a radical act precisely because the Commonwealth at the time was in a very precarious position. A still somewhat stable and large Commonwealth wouldn't have had the incentive to adopt it. There also would have likely been, like in real life, conservative opposition to it - the Constitution was so radical that only the French revolutionary constitution or the American one were comparable.
  • You should also generally talk a bit more about the things that made the Commonwealth the Commonwealth. What happened to the medieval Seijm, and the conflicts between the monarchy and the Szlachta? The liberum veto, which you mention was never adopted, was a practice that evolved - it wasn't adopted at once, so how did it not evolve into the issue it was in real life? When did the monarchy become a native and de facto hereditary one?
  • How does the PLC deal with its ethnic diversity? Especially considering that you mention big national revolts in 1848, they just kinda get swept aside. How is it trying to establish a national identity, if the Polish and Lithuanian ones are still pushed forward?
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Benuty
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:43 pm

Tracian Empire wrote:
Benuty wrote:Full Nation Name : The Golden State of the Rus.


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Generally, the app is almost finished, but please finish the government description section.

Other than that, Trotsky was born in a village in Ukraine that would be under Polish-Lithuanian control or at the very least outside your borders. If we do not get a Polish-Lithuanian player then you can have him, but until then we will operate under the rule that the nations controlling the birthplaces of historical figures have precedence. You can try to use another Russian revolutionary figure for his position.

Other than that I could accept your app, but one element that I think is quite crucial to your concept is the entire Judaism connection, and the development of this Sojornism religion, isn't explained well enough to be acceptable. You should try to better explain it and emphasize what happened, and what the current religious situation is


To address the concern of Trotsky I am talking to the Polish-Lithuanian player about it. I chose him though because, despite his birthplace, he went on to represent Russians in the Russian Republic (1917-1918) in the Russian Constituent Assembly within an area that is actually the wealthiest of my Russian areas (Novograd). Sure it's 1905, but the man was a key figure in the failed 1905 Revolution in Russia, and I am going to have my biggest event concern my version of that revolution (which may succeed if the government screws up). I will explain religion in a secondary post.

I have also updated the government description.
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Tracian Empire
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:08 pm

Union Princes wrote:

Full Nation Name : Austria-Hungary


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Unless the CO-OP's notice an issue I've missed, accepted
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Benuty
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Benuty » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:09 pm

Sojournism: The Non-Karaite counter to Rabbinic Judaism.

Whereas Samaritans limit themselves to the first five books of Moses, and Karaites claim extra-biblical interpretation to not be valid, the Sojourners raises the third point. That Moses (if he existed) was wrong, and all one has to do is look at the wastrels of the former land of Judea. The Sojourners base their name on Abraham who sojourned from his lands on the orders of God to give birth to a whole host of peoples, places, and things. They don't believe in Moses, the judges, the prophets, and the kings nor do they claim Jerusalem as their holy site to be headed by a high priest, and a temple. Canaan is their holy land, but for now, they are "in Egypt" awaiting the day God will ordain the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to come forth from every corner, and set up their tents.

The holy text of the Sojourners is Genesis divided into twelve portions as per the old Torah cycle readings. Each of their months is named after an event of some significance in the text. Sections are read over the months with the year starting again when it comes time to read about the creation of the world. The calenders end with the death of Joseph, and the descendants of Abraham awaiting in Egypt for the time to be right. The faith of the sojourners is a monotheistic faith centered on the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob a being who is able to be known, and who walks on the earth with his angels. Worship is held in tents, and gardens and the faith view marriage in the context of bigamous (just as Jacob married Rachel and Leah) or allowing concubines (Abraham with Hagar).

Animal sacrifice is conducted following a ceremony reading God's test of Abraham over his son Jacob. Young men reach maturity in a ritual where they seek their father's blessings. People are circumcized within the faith as well, and the religion is more than willing to allow vengeance in cases of rape ( such as when the brothers of Dinah exacted vengeance upon their sisters rapists). Yet like Jacob, and Esau it also encourages proper forgiveness, to not lie (the birthright deception), to not murder (Cain and Abel or deceive (as josephs brothers did to their father).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_G ... of_Genesis

In regards to the Jewish connection essentially the Khazars survived rather than be destroyed, and were able to assimilate the polytheistic Rus, and eventually, the Golden Horde ended up converting to Judaism. The Sojournist branch is as much a take on the Mongol traditions as it is an attempt at genuine theology. Jerusalem is in the hands of tritheistic idolaters (Christians), and there is no Messiah coming to liberate Jews. God will act when he sees fit.
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The Imperial Warglorian Empire
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Imperial Warglorian Empire » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:18 pm

Heh, to be honest I'm getting a bit frustrated trying to fix this app :p

Do hope no one takes up those territories while I'm working this out, though it'd give me an excuse to just go Germany again.
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Northern Socialist Council Republics
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Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:41 am

IC post is up. Commentary welcome as usual.

tl;dr: more information about the situation in South Jutland, infrastructure projects in the north and the east, and an upcoming Congress of the International!

I imagine that last item would be of great interest to both revolutionary and anti-revolutionary nations... and the world's monarchies will have to decide whether they're going to be ignoring it or whether they're going to try and stop their own socialists from attending.
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Tracian Empire
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:42 am

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:IC post is up. Commentary welcome as usual.

tl;dr: more information about the situation in South Jutland, infrastructure projects in the north and the east, and an upcoming Congress of the International!

I imagine that last item would be of great interest to both revolutionary and anti-revolutionary nations... and the world's monarchies will have to decide whether they're going to be ignoring it or whether they're going to try and stop their own socialists from attending.

The Roman Empire doesn't have any recognized socialist organizations, so ignoring it would be quite easy :p
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Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:50 am

Tracian Empire wrote:The Roman Empire doesn't have any recognized socialist organizations, so ignoring it would be quite easy :p

Can't wait to write resolutions denouncing the savagery of state-sanctioned Roman anti-republican terror. :p
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Tracian Empire
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:53 am

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:
Tracian Empire wrote:The Roman Empire doesn't have any recognized socialist organizations, so ignoring it would be quite easy :p

Can't wait to write resolutions denouncing the savagery of state-sanctioned Roman anti-republican terror. :p

No terror here sir

There is no legal basis for the registration of organizations. They aren't banned, they just can't register.

That and the demes have an unofficial monopoly on the political debates and political violence of course.
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Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:55 am

Tracian Empire wrote:They aren't banned, they just can't register.

Ah, well, then that's fine. Just because the Empire doesn't consider them to be registered organisations doesn't mean the Secretariat of the International can't send them invitations.
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Tracian Empire
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:01 am

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:
Tracian Empire wrote:They aren't banned, they just can't register.

Ah, well, then that's fine. Just because the Empire doesn't consider them to be registered organisations doesn't mean the Secretariat of the International can't send them invitations.

They could!

Now the question would of course be whether the delegation that's sent there would be formed by actual, real socialists, or Messengers.

Depends on how deeply the socialist groups in the capital are infiltrated. The more radical ones would probably not be allowed to exist too openly - there are plenty of non-political reasons you can use to keep them down, while the not completely insane ones would be closely monitored but allowed to sort of exist on the edge of the law.
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Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:04 am

Tracian Empire wrote:Now the question would of course be whether the delegation that's sent there would be formed by actual, real socialists, or Messengers.

The Secretariat doesn't really have the means to ferret out spies, or ban them from the Congress even if they do manage to find some, so I have to imagine that if the Roman Messengers want to infiltrate the Congress by mixing a few of their agents in with the genuine socialist statesmen, they can.

The question then becomes what would be the point, since it's not exactly a secret conference and all the voting records and passed resolutions will be published after it's over.
Last edited by Northern Socialist Council Republics on Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tracian Empire
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:12 am

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:
Tracian Empire wrote:Now the question would of course be whether the delegation that's sent there would be formed by actual, real socialists, or Messengers.

The Secretariat doesn't really have the means to ferret out spies, or ban them from the Congress even if they do manage to find some, so I have to imagine that if the Roman Messengers want to infiltrate the Congress by mixing a few of their agents in with the genuine socialist statesmen, they can.

The question then becomes what would be the point, since it's not exactly a secret conference and all the voting records and passed resolutions will be published after it's over.

It's not like they'd be infiltrated especially for this occasion. But much like the Okhrana, the Messengers have a general strategy of long-term infiltration of revolutionary organizations with undercover agents. So since some of the important members of these organizations could potentially be agents, there is a chance that they might be among those sent to the congress, since the organizations in question wouldn't be aware of their ties to the secret police.
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Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:14 am

Tracian Empire wrote:It's not like they'd be infiltrated especially for this occasion. But much like the Okhrana, the Messengers have a general strategy of long-term infiltration of revolutionary organizations with undercover agents. So since some of the important members of these organizations could potentially be agents, there is a chance that they might be among those sent to the congress, since the organizations in question wouldn't be aware of their ties to the secret police.

That could certainly be an interesting perspective to write an IC post from when the Congress finally begins.
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Tracian Empire
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:20 am

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:
Tracian Empire wrote:It's not like they'd be infiltrated especially for this occasion. But much like the Okhrana, the Messengers have a general strategy of long-term infiltration of revolutionary organizations with undercover agents. So since some of the important members of these organizations could potentially be agents, there is a chance that they might be among those sent to the congress, since the organizations in question wouldn't be aware of their ties to the secret police.

That could certainly be an interesting perspective to write an IC post from when the Congress finally begins.

It certainly would be

I do want to describe the situation of labor movements in the Empire - because while the Roman Empire would borrow some elements from Tsarist Russia, it does things differently. There is less direct violence because like I said, the demes are where most political violence happens. The Empire also heavily leans into the Church and it has been setting up Christian-focused unions in an attempt to steer workers away from more radical organizations. And while tensions have been rising, there is a general undercurrent of hope in regards to more political reforms now that there is a younger, new Emperor on the throne.
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

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Northern Socialist Council Republics
Senator
 
Posts: 3761
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:39 am

Oh, and with regards currency: the Northern Commonwealth is on the gold standard pegged at one ounce per krone, which would make the advertised kr. 1 and 17-6 weekly wage equivalent to $38.76 in real-life US dollars.
Call me "Russ" if you're referring to me the out-of-character poster or "NSRS" if you're referring to me the in-character nation.
Previously on Plzen. NationStates-er since 2014.

Social-democrat and hardline secularist.
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Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26891
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:44 am

The Imperial Warglorian Empire wrote:Heh, to be honest I'm getting a bit frustrated trying to fix this app :p

Do hope no one takes up those territories while I'm working this out, though it'd give me an excuse to just go Germany again.

If you need any help, feel free to ask.

Those territories will be reserved for you for the time being, since you have an app that was reviewed, but you should try to finish it this week if possible.
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

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Alt Div Admin
Envoy
 
Posts: 207
Founded: Dec 15, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Alt Div Admin » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:17 am

Map and list updated

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