Coronavirus Thread VI: Are We Nearly There Yet? (READ OP)

[Ethel mermania]

Again I had two friends on ventilators who received it and recovered. So I belive my lying eyes

Was it HydroC or was it because of all the other drugs they received as well?

I remember reading something about that in the fight over it.

Tbh, no idea, I just know what they both said.

[Neutraligon]

Was it HydroC or was it because of all the other drugs they received as well?

I remember reading something about that in the fight over it.

Tbh, no idea, I just know what they both said.

So basically correlation with no evidence of causation.

[Ethel mermania]

Tbh, no idea, I just know what they both said.

So basically correlation with no evidence of causation.

Since I don't have access to their medical charts, its the best I can do

[Dakini]

Theresa May has lashed out at the government's Covid travel policy, saying the UK is "no further forward" one year after the pandemic hit — despite more than half of UK adults receiving two doses of a vaccine.

The former prime minister suggested Britain is beginning to fall behind Europe in reopening its borders to travellers. She said the UK is sending a message to the rest of the world that "Global Britain" is "shut for business".

It is weird that the UK requires people who are vaccinated to quarantine upon arrival.

I mean, the UK is on red lists for a number of countries because of the delta variant, but some countries aren't requiring people from their red listed countries to quarantine if they're vaccinated.

[Ethel mermania]

It is weird that the UK requires people who are vaccinated to quarantine upon arrival.

I mean, the UK is on red lists for a number of countries because of the delta variant, but some countries aren't requiring people from their red listed countries to quarantine if they're vaccinated.

Boy #2 is on a Caribbean island, he is vaccinated, still has a 14 day quarantine.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Was it HydroC or was it because of all the other drugs they received as well?

I remember reading something about that in the fight over it.

Tbh, no idea, I just know what they both said.

Ok, good for them. It's still not evidence.

[Neutraligon]

So basically correlation with no evidence of causation.

Since I don't have access to their medical charts, its the best I can do

No, the best you can do is not fall for the post hoc fallacy.

[Dakini]

Study shows that hydroxychloroquine DOES help improve COVID-19 survival rate by a wide margin.

https://www.kusi.com/medrxiv-study-hydr ... ree-times/

Preprints are scientific curiosities: ways for researchers to get other researchers interested in following up on their research without going through the months or even years long process of peer review.

That's how medicine seems to use them.

In physics and astronomy, usually the papers are accepted to a journal or in press when the authors upload them to arXiv (or they're the kind of work that's educational rather than the kind of thing that gets published in a journal or occasionally, they're rejected papers with the rejection letter attached).

[Dakini]

It is weird that the UK requires people who are vaccinated to quarantine upon arrival.

I mean, the UK is on red lists for a number of countries because of the delta variant, but some countries aren't requiring people from their red listed countries to quarantine if they're vaccinated.

Boy #2 is on a Caribbean island, he is vaccinated, still has a 14 day quarantine.

Starting tomorrow, I can go anywhere in the world and come back to Romania without having to quarantine (tomorrow marks 14 days since I got vaccinated).

[Nevertopia]

Holy moly you guys I got vaxxed and the anti-vaxxers were right! I can feel the 5G in my body! I have spotless wifi connection where ever I go! And the microchips are downloading my body as we speak! Help me anti-vaxxers, which essential oils should I use?!

[Ethel mermania]

Since I don't have access to their medical charts, its the best I can do

No, the best you can do is not fall for the post hoc fallacy.

I will believe my lying eyes.

[Dakini]

No, the best you can do is not fall for the post hoc fallacy.

I will believe my lying eyes.

I mean, it's entirely possible that they would have survived without the hydroxychloroquine. That's why large scale scientific studies are needed to study these things (instead of looking at two people).

[Neutraligon]

No, the best you can do is not fall for the post hoc fallacy.

I will believe my lying eyes.

Except that is not what you are doing.

[Ethel mermania]

I will believe my lying eyes.

I mean, it's entirely possible that they would have survived without the hydroxychloroquine. That's why large scale scientific studies are needed to study these things (instead of looking at two people).

True, I dont deny that

[Ethel mermania]

I will believe my lying eyes.

Except that is not what you are doing.

How not so?

[Neutraligon]

Except that is not what you are doing.

How not so?

Simple, you yourself admitted you do not have their medical information.

[Nevertopia]

SO i looked into the most current up to date research on Hydroxychloroquine and it looks like its junk. Im willing to suspend judgment due to our current emergency but Im also looking out if the science behind the solutions we're coming up with is solid and HydroxyC looks like a clear loser in that regard. Its a Malaria drug and thats not diminished, but as a treatment for covid? Not so much.

[Fartsniffage]

It is weird that the UK requires people who are vaccinated to quarantine upon arrival.

I mean, the UK is on red lists for a number of countries because of the delta variant, but some countries aren't requiring people from their red listed countries to quarantine if they're vaccinated.

Not really weird. There is no agreed upon vaccine passport in the world right now. All I have is a bit of paper with a date and vaccine name on. How could anywhere check accurately whether someone has been vaccinated or not?

[Kowani]

Johnson and Johnson loses another 60 million doses from the same shoddy plant

The Food and Drug and Administration (FDA) is forcing Johnson & Johnson to throw out millions of doses of its single-shot COVID-19 vaccine produced at a troubled plant in Baltimore due to contamination concerns.

According to The New York Times, 60 million doses were unusable.

Another 10 million doses from the plant will be allowed to be distributed but with a warning that the FDA cannot guarantee they were produced using good manufacturing practices, according to the Times.

In a statement, the FDA confirmed that it has now authorized two batches of the vaccine.

Federal officials "determined several other batches are not suitable for use, but additional batches are still under review and the agency will keep the public informed as those reviews are completed," the agency said.

The agency referred questions about specific numbers to Johnson & Johnson, which did not respond.

The FDA said it has not yet determined whether the plant, operated by Emergent BioSolutions, can reopen.

"These actions followed an extensive review of records, including the production history of the facility and the testing performed to evaluate the quality of the product," said Peter Marks, director of the FDA's Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research. The loss of 60 million doses is the latest setback for Emergent. The plant, which has been under scrutiny for months, was shuttered in April for a host of violations, including contamination of Johnson & Johnson's vaccine with an ingredient for the AstraZeneca vaccine, which were both being manufactured by Emergent at the time.

The federal government has paid Emergent more than $271 million in taxpayer money, but the ensuing delays have meant that none of the millions of doses of the J&J vaccine produced at the plant have been distributed.

[Ethel mermania]

Johnson and Johnson loses another 60 million doses from the same shoddy plant

The Food and Drug and Administration (FDA) is forcing Johnson & Johnson to throw out millions of doses of its single-shot COVID-19 vaccine produced at a troubled plant in Baltimore due to contamination concerns.

According to The New York Times, 60 million doses were unusable.

Another 10 million doses from the plant will be allowed to be distributed but with a warning that the FDA cannot guarantee they were produced using good manufacturing practices, according to the Times.

In a statement, the FDA confirmed that it has now authorized two batches of the vaccine.

Federal officials "determined several other batches are not suitable for use, but additional batches are still under review and the agency will keep the public informed as those reviews are completed," the agency said.

The agency referred questions about specific numbers to Johnson & Johnson, which did not respond.

The FDA said it has not yet determined whether the plant, operated by Emergent BioSolutions, can reopen.

"These actions followed an extensive review of records, including the production history of the facility and the testing performed to evaluate the quality of the product," said Peter Marks, director of the FDA's Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research. The loss of 60 million doses is the latest setback for Emergent. The plant, which has been under scrutiny for months, was shuttered in April for a host of violations, including contamination of Johnson & Johnson's vaccine with an ingredient for the AstraZeneca vaccine, which were both being manufactured by Emergent at the time.

The federal government has paid Emergent more than $271 million in taxpayer money, but the ensuing delays have meant that none of the millions of doses of the J&J vaccine produced at the plant have been distributed.

Again, anyone who trusts the quality of a product made by the owners of the New York Jets is a fool.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I'd suggest planning to not do anything Monday. Most people will have mildish to no post-vaccine symptoms, however I have known a few who got sick as a dog.i got some fever chills for a few hours and was tired as hell, but it subsided quick. Was the weirdest thing to feel like I had a fever without running a fever. Its all pretty normal, nothing to be worried about, but there is the possibility you'll be knocked out for a day. That said, even the people I know who got sick as hell were fine the next day.

Saturday is probably pretty good timing then...as far as I can tell from those who have received the two-shot vaccines, most people who had little or no side effects from the first won't have much worse, if even worse at all, from the second. Age and sex are also major variables, side effects scale by age for all of the vaccines with younger people having a stronger reaction and more severe side effects*. Men by and large also have much milder side effects than women, too, although I am not sure if this has anything to do with age or rather inherent immune system differences.

*Immune response of course changes as you age, but one thing I am wondering is if people also have a greater chance of exposure to other coronaviruses over time as they age rather than the ordinary rhinoviruses that comprise the vast majority of childhood colds, reducing the intensity of the immune response since it's something that is now known. It's totally anecdotal but I have rarely gotten a cold since I was a child, but when I do...it totally knocks my ass out for a day but then goes away completely after that. The J&J side effects were exactly like that but much shorter.

One thing to emphasize is that side effects, or the lack thereof, have no impact on the development of protective antibodies. So please do so if it is available to you.

Men tend to shrug off the side effects. I read it has to do with testosterone. Not all men shrug it off, but many do. I felt like ass, both times, but estrogen can apparently increase the side effects’ feelings on women.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Saturday is probably pretty good timing then...as far as I can tell from those who have received the two-shot vaccines, most people who had little or no side effects from the first won't have much worse, if even worse at all, from the second. Age and sex are also major variables, side effects scale by age for all of the vaccines with younger people having a stronger reaction and more severe side effects*. Men by and large also have much milder side effects than women, too, although I am not sure if this has anything to do with age or rather inherent immune system differences.

*Immune response of course changes as you age, but one thing I am wondering is if people also have a greater chance of exposure to other coronaviruses over time as they age rather than the ordinary rhinoviruses that comprise the vast majority of childhood colds, reducing the intensity of the immune response since it's something that is now known. It's totally anecdotal but I have rarely gotten a cold since I was a child, but when I do...it totally knocks my ass out for a day but then goes away completely after that. The J&J side effects were exactly like that but much shorter.

One thing to emphasize is that side effects, or the lack thereof, have no impact on the development of protective antibodies. So please do so if it is available to you.

Men tend to shrug off the side effects. I read it has to do with testosterone. Not all men shrug it off, but many do. I felt like ass, both times, but estrogen can apparently increase the side effects’ feelings on women.

My sister was vomiting worse than I did the time I drank a fifth of vodka. I meanwhile just felt like not doing anything.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Men tend to shrug off the side effects. I read it has to do with testosterone. Not all men shrug it off, but many do. I felt like ass, both times, but estrogen can apparently increase the side effects’ feelings on women.

My sister was vomiting worse than I did the time I drank a fifth of vodka. I meanwhile just felt like not doing anything.

My step-dad shrugged the first and second shot like nothing. Not even a headache. My father-in-law however felt rather crummy after his second shot. I felt awful both times.

I’m not sure if it’s that estrogen can amplify side effects for women. Gotta check that out.

Here

For example, estrogens, hormones responsible for the female reproductive system and secondary sex characteristics in women, may be related to larger immune response. A 2019 study of immune response to the H1N1 vaccine found that in both humans and mice, presence of the major female sex hormone estradiol in adult females led to more robust antibody responses following vaccination in comparison with males and older females without high levels of estradiol. This indicates that while women might actually have more side effects as well as report them more often, they also may benefit more from the protective effects of a vaccine.

[Nevertopia]

Johnson and Johnson loses another 60 million doses from the same shoddy plant

The Food and Drug and Administration (FDA) is forcing Johnson & Johnson to throw out millions of doses of its single-shot COVID-19 vaccine produced at a troubled plant in Baltimore due to contamination concerns.

According to The New York Times, 60 million doses were unusable.

Another 10 million doses from the plant will be allowed to be distributed but with a warning that the FDA cannot guarantee they were produced using good manufacturing practices, according to the Times.

In a statement, the FDA confirmed that it has now authorized two batches of the vaccine.

Federal officials "determined several other batches are not suitable for use, but additional batches are still under review and the agency will keep the public informed as those reviews are completed," the agency said.

The agency referred questions about specific numbers to Johnson & Johnson, which did not respond.

The FDA said it has not yet determined whether the plant, operated by Emergent BioSolutions, can reopen.

"These actions followed an extensive review of records, including the production history of the facility and the testing performed to evaluate the quality of the product," said Peter Marks, director of the FDA's Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research. The loss of 60 million doses is the latest setback for Emergent. The plant, which has been under scrutiny for months, was shuttered in April for a host of violations, including contamination of Johnson & Johnson's vaccine with an ingredient for the AstraZeneca vaccine, which were both being manufactured by Emergent at the time.

The federal government has paid Emergent more than $271 million in taxpayer money, but the ensuing delays have meant that none of the millions of doses of the J&J vaccine produced at the plant have been distributed.

good. I cant help but throw up a little bit whenever I see J&J after everything theyve done to fuel the opioid crisis in vancouver.

[Seangoli]

Was it HydroC or was it because of all the other drugs they received as well?

I remember reading something about that in the fight over it.

Tbh, no idea, I just know what they both said.

It's worth noting the study consisted of a non-randomized population of just 255 people, on which nearly 80% died anyway. Some quick math, assuming even distribution between non-HCQ and HCQ population would give about 127 in each group. Of those that survived, we have about 50 people total, which would leave us with about 17 or so who survived without HCQ vs. 33 with it. So basically, it's another study looking at an extremely small non-randomized population with very low numbers. I haven't delved too deep into the actual numbers, just extrapolating based on the very basic numbers, but it's hardly definitive at that number of people.

Edit:. I read the article a bit further; 225 patients received HCQ, however they considered only those who received large doses of HCQ and zinc as having received the treatment. Basically, 37 patients received doses above 3 grams for HCQ and above 1 gram for zinc, and of these who did 40% survived. The remainder of this study group received less than 3 grams and 1 gram respectively, and had a 16.5% survival rate. This looks promising, however I again refer to the small populations involved.