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by Dratonis » Thu May 20, 2021 9:52 am
by Refuge Isle » Thu May 20, 2021 10:17 am
Dratonis wrote:1. I'm concerned that reporters reporting on civil conflicts wont receive protection under this proposal
2. I'm concerned that reporters may be attacked if they are reporting on non military conflict
by Ardiveds » Thu May 20, 2021 11:49 am
by South Boston Irishmen » Thu May 20, 2021 2:39 pm
Ardiveds wrote:"While we are not keen on journalists running around with military grade weapons in the name of defense, we do think atleast a sidearm is necessary, especially when non-members and non-state actors are involved. Unfortunately, we shall have to vote against this."
by Greater Cesnica » Thu May 20, 2021 3:01 pm
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Refuge Isle » Thu May 20, 2021 6:28 pm
Greater Cesnica wrote:OOC: A scenario I'm thinking of where Article 1(b) would function in practice to stifle reporting for non-propaganda purposes:
Say Canada enters a war with the Philippines. Journalists from the CBC, Canada's public broadcasting entity which receives most of its funding from the federal government but generally does not serve as a mouthpiece for the Canadian government, would not be permitted to report from within a conflict zone where Canadian forces are engaged in combat as the Philippines could claim that these journalists do not operate independently of Canada, a belligerent faction.
And, more critically, journalists from the CTV, the largest privately-owned media company in Canada, would also not be permitted to cover the conflict in that same conflict zone, due to the same condition from Article 1(b) cited by the Philippines government that precludes CBC journalists from reporting from within the conflict zone.
This is a problem of grey areas, ambiguity, and just overall micromanagement that could easily be exploited by one warring faction or another to stifle reporting. I say it's better to allow propagandists to operate within the conflict zone that are in actuality working with the armed forces and government of one or belligerent faction to push a particular narrative or get something done, rather than deny journalists protections based on affiliation with one entity or another.
by Luna Free State » Thu May 20, 2021 6:56 pm
by Greater Cesnica » Thu May 20, 2021 7:13 pm
Refuge Isle wrote:Greater Cesnica wrote:OOC: A scenario I'm thinking of where Article 1(b) would function in practice to stifle reporting for non-propaganda purposes:
Say Canada enters a war with the Philippines. Journalists from the CBC, Canada's public broadcasting entity which receives most of its funding from the federal government but generally does not serve as a mouthpiece for the Canadian government, would not be permitted to report from within a conflict zone where Canadian forces are engaged in combat as the Philippines could claim that these journalists do not operate independently of Canada, a belligerent faction.
And, more critically, journalists from the CTV, the largest privately-owned media company in Canada, would also not be permitted to cover the conflict in that same conflict zone, due to the same condition from Article 1(b) cited by the Philippines government that precludes CBC journalists from reporting from within the conflict zone.
This is a problem of grey areas, ambiguity, and just overall micromanagement that could easily be exploited by one warring faction or another to stifle reporting. I say it's better to allow propagandists to operate within the conflict zone that are in actuality working with the armed forces and government of one or belligerent faction to push a particular narrative or get something done, rather than deny journalists protections based on affiliation with one entity or another.
In real life, you have two classifications of journalists. War correspondents who are often embedded with a nation's military to bring information back, largely for propaganda purposes, and independent journalists who are there on their own means, or the means of their news organisation. If the CBC is sent by the military for the purposes of bringing back propaganda for the trash war, then those journalists aren't covered by the protection of this resolution, as they are adequately protected by the belligerent faction and have ample means to move about the battle field on their own.
This resolution does not consider journalists that are protected by a military, although the door is open to future legislation on the subject. I am concerned with journalists who do not have such an industrial array of permissions and legal protections.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Refuge Isle » Thu May 20, 2021 9:55 pm
Luna Free State wrote:I fail to see how this, "A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts," is applicable.
Voting against.
Greater Cesnica wrote:Also on another note, I would like to sincerely apologize for not coming to you with my concerns before this was submitted. I have been heavily busy IRL up until about a week ago, which incidentally coincided with around the time this was being submitted and pushed through the queue.
by Laka Strolistandiler » Fri May 21, 2021 1:13 am
I reserve the right to /stillme any one-liners if my post is at least two lines long
by Greater Cesnica » Fri May 21, 2021 4:10 am
Luna Free State wrote:I fail to see how this, "A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts," is applicable.
Voting against.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Greater Cesnica » Fri May 21, 2021 4:17 am
Refuge Isle wrote:It's alright, commentary was conspicuously absent for the two months this was in drafting, and the political winds seem to be shifting a certain direction towards nitpicking at the moment and repealing at the moment.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Ardiveds » Fri May 21, 2021 7:47 am
South Boston Irishmen wrote:Ardiveds wrote:"While we are not keen on journalists running around with military grade weapons in the name of defense, we do think atleast a sidearm is necessary, especially when non-members and non-state actors are involved. Unfortunately, we shall have to vote against this."
I believe you would find that many journalists would say that they are non-combatants, and therefore would refuse to carry a weapon in a combat zone, even a sidearm.
by Illu-chi » Fri May 21, 2021 10:12 am
by South Boston Irishmen » Fri May 21, 2021 11:33 am
by Greater Cesnica » Fri May 21, 2021 11:46 am
South Boston Irishmen wrote:I understand you aren't trying to force a journalist to have a weapon, I'm saying that if they have the option, they will refuse. To carry a weapon into a combat zone goes against every bit of journalistic integrity that they have. You are either a journalist, which means a non-combatant, or you aren't. You can't be both, and you can't go into a warzone armed and then claim to be neutral.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Illu-chi » Fri May 21, 2021 1:03 pm
South Boston Irishmen wrote:I understand you aren't trying to force a journalist to have a weapon, I'm saying that if they have the option, they will refuse. To carry a weapon into a combat zone goes against every bit of journalistic integrity that they have. You are either a journalist, which means a non-combatant, or you aren't. You can't be both, and you can't go into a warzone armed and then claim to be neutral.
by Greater Cesnica » Fri May 21, 2021 1:06 pm
Illu-chi wrote:South Boston Irishmen wrote:I understand you aren't trying to force a journalist to have a weapon, I'm saying that if they have the option, they will refuse. To carry a weapon into a combat zone goes against every bit of journalistic integrity that they have. You are either a journalist, which means a non-combatant, or you aren't. You can't be both, and you can't go into a warzone armed and then claim to be neutral.
Your in a warzone where everyone who is going to be around you will have some sort of deadly weapon and your saying a journalist won't want to have a pistol!?
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Imperium Anglorum » Fri May 21, 2021 1:28 pm
Greater Cesnica wrote:OOC: The primary reason why many journalists will refuse to carry a firearm or other deadly weapon is that doing so may render journalists a legitimate target in the eyes of warring factions. Essentially, a journalist being disarmed would ideally provide less of an incentive to attack them. However, this unspoken code of not regarding journalists as threats or targets has been broken in recent years, particularly by non-state actors and by nations with rather poor attitudes towards human dignity overall. As such, I do believe that in certain circumstances it may be prudent for a journalist to be armed, and since this resolution prevents that it is one point of contention I have with it.
by Ardiveds » Fri May 21, 2021 6:25 pm
Greater Cesnica wrote:OOC: The primary reason why many journalists will refuse to carry a firearm or other deadly weapon is that doing so may render journalists a legitimate target in the eyes of warring factions. Essentially, a journalist being disarmed would ideally provide less of an incentive to attack them. However, this unspoken code of not regarding journalists as threats or targets has been broken in recent years, particularly by non-state actors and by nations with rather poor attitudes towards human dignity overall. As such, I do believe that in certain circumstances it may be prudent for a journalist to be armed, and since this resolution prevents that it is one point of contention I have with it.
by Scalizagasti » Fri May 21, 2021 7:35 pm
by Van Couvere » Fri May 21, 2021 10:54 pm
by Greater Cesnica » Sat May 22, 2021 5:06 am
Ardiveds wrote:Greater Cesnica wrote:OOC: The primary reason why many journalists will refuse to carry a firearm or other deadly weapon is that doing so may render journalists a legitimate target in the eyes of warring factions. Essentially, a journalist being disarmed would ideally provide less of an incentive to attack them. However, this unspoken code of not regarding journalists as threats or targets has been broken in recent years, particularly by non-state actors and by nations with rather poor attitudes towards human dignity overall. As such, I do believe that in certain circumstances it may be prudent for a journalist to be armed, and since this resolution prevents that it is one point of contention I have with it.
OOC: I understand that carrying around a gun will probably make them look like a target but a concealed sidearm will surely not attract much attention while still being somewhat effective if things get dangerous. And again, I'm talking about choice here. If 99% of them aren't willing to carry a gun, let the 1% protect themselves.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Greater Cesnica » Sat May 22, 2021 5:07 am
Van Couvere wrote:In my opinion, journalists that are in conflict zones should not engage in combat since they still classified as citizens of one's country/nation/society. If they are to be in conflict areas, they SHOULD be accompanied by military or national escort. At least 3-5 armed guards should remain with the journalist and crew. Beside's my opinion I disagree with this since it is putting our journalists at risk of even more dangers. The opposing forces may outnumber the journalists and its crew.
Van Couvere
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Great Algerstonia » Sun May 23, 2021 8:08 am
Resilient Acceleration wrote:After a period of letting this discussion run its course without my involvement due to sheer laziness and a new related NS project, I have returned with an answer and that answer is Israel.
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