US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread III

[Andsed]

you will forgive me for being kind of done watching stuff from the police snuff film genre, I hope, but I'll take your word for it

particularly given that she was apparently the one who called the cops for help, I am not ready to just nod and say "yup, 15 year old had it coming, four in the chest was an appropriate and proportionate response"

I have seen the body cam footage and it did look pretty clear she was in the process of attempting to stab someone. The context is not clear and its even murkier seeing as she did call the police but it does seem like a really shitty situation all around.

And as a follow up here is the image at the point of the shooting:

Like its pretty clear what was about to happen, whether or not shooting her four times was nessessary is defintly a valid question and an investigation should be launched into this whole mess, but it does seem like a very murky situation.

[Greater Cesnica]

Orange County deputy deliberately burned inmate in jail mental health unit with hot water, sheriff says

If the explanation is true, it looks to be a legitimate use of corporal punishment from my perspective. Inmates typically aren't allowed to disobey orders without consequence within reason. They should've not kept their arms out to needlessly hold the guards up.

Dude. It was a mental health housing module. That's a very depraved take of yours.

[Galloism]

How exactly is pepper spray supposed to work when her back is facing him at the time of the shooting?

spoken like someone who's never been pepper sprayed tbh, I seriously doubt a 15-year-old girl would require massive direct application to the face for it to take effect

And watch this video and tell me Tasers always work.

You would think a public servant who's supposedly dedicated their career to putting their life on the line to protect their community would be willing to accept a slightly higher risk of getting stabbed and use a taser instead of mowing down a 15-year-old girl but ok

Notably, he would actually be accepting the slightly higher risk of a +/- 15 year old girl holding a dog getting stabbed. She wasn't trying to stab him. She was trying to stab someone else.

[The Reformed American Republic]

spoken like someone who's never been pepper sprayed tbh, I seriously doubt a 15-year-old girl would require massive direct application to the face for it to take effect

You would think a public servant who's supposedly dedicated their career to putting their life on the line to protect their community would be willing to accept a slightly higher risk of getting stabbed and use a taser instead of mowing down a 15-year-old girl but ok

Notably, he would actually be accepting the slightly higher risk of a +/- 15 year old girl holding a dog getting stabbed. She wasn't trying to stab him. She was trying to stab someone else.

There is this movement that seems to think that any police use of force is wrong, regardless of circumstances.

[Greater Cesnica]

spoken like someone who's never been pepper sprayed tbh, I seriously doubt a 15-year-old girl would require massive direct application to the face for it to take effect

You would think a public servant who's supposedly dedicated their career to putting their life on the line to protect their community would be willing to accept a slightly higher risk of getting stabbed and use a taser instead of mowing down a 15-year-old girl but ok

Notably, he would actually be accepting the slightly higher risk of a +/- 15 year old girl holding a dog getting stabbed. She wasn't trying to stab him. She was trying to stab someone else.

Indeed. I am no fan of the cops, but I'm going to have to err on the side of this shooting being justified. Perhaps a taser could have worked. But the point is that the officer acted to prevent a potentially lethal attack upon a teenage girl.

[Fartsniffage]

Orange County deputy deliberately burned inmate in jail mental health unit with hot water, sheriff says

If the explanation is true, it looks to be a legitimate use of corporal punishment from my perspective. Inmates typically aren't allowed to disobey orders without consequence within reason. They should've not kept their arms out to needlessly hold the guards up.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

[Greater Cesnica]

Notably, he would actually be accepting the slightly higher risk of a +/- 15 year old girl holding a dog getting stabbed. She wasn't trying to stab him. She was trying to stab someone else.

There is this movement that seems to think that any police use of force is wrong, regardless of circumstances.

It takes away from actual instances of police abuse.

[Greater Miami Shores]

spoken like someone who's never been pepper sprayed tbh, I seriously doubt a 15-year-old girl would require massive direct application to the face for it to take effect

You would think a public servant who's supposedly dedicated their career to putting their life on the line to protect their community would be willing to accept a slightly higher risk of getting stabbed and use a taser instead of mowing down a 15-year-old girl but ok

Notably, he would actually be accepting the slightly higher risk of a +/- 15 year old girl holding a dog getting stabbed. She wasn't trying to stab him. She was trying to stab someone else.

The girl was trying to stab another girl which is a crime. Cops like my Good Cuban Cousin Cop carry guns, their first instinct is to draw their guns.

[Greater Cesnica]

spoken like someone who's never been pepper sprayed tbh, I seriously doubt a 15-year-old girl would require massive direct application to the face for it to take effect

Spoken like someone who believes pepper spray from more than 10 feet, and away from the facial openings, is actually effective.

You would think a public servant who's supposedly dedicated their career to putting their life on the line to protect their community would be willing to accept a slightly higher risk of getting stabbed and use a taser instead of mowing down a 15-year-old girl but ok

Spoken like someone who has never had their life in danger.

Except, if you had bothered to actually review the case instead of exposing your ignorance on it, you would realize the girl wasn't trying to stab him but another girl. All of this, including the fact she was rearing back to stab her, is on video.

And the cop did issue verbal warnings and did not immediately open fire upon the deceased pushing the first girl down to the ground. Once again, people should accept that perhaps the cop acted within reason here, and focus on other cases of brutality.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Spoken like someone who believes pepper spray from more than 10 feet, and away from the facial openings, is actually effective.



Spoken like someone who has never had their life in danger.

Except, if you had bothered to actually review the case instead of exposing your ignorance on it, you would realize the girl wasn't trying to stab him but another girl. All of this, including the fact she was rearing back to stab her, is on video.

And the cop did issue verbal warnings and did not immediately open fire upon the deceased pushing the first girl down to the ground. Once again, people should accept that perhaps the cop acted within reason here, and focus on other cases of brutality.

Another Great Post, I strongly agree with.

[Greater Miami Shores]

If the explanation is true, it looks to be a legitimate use of corporal punishment from my perspective. Inmates typically aren't allowed to disobey orders without consequence within reason. They should've not kept their arms out to needlessly hold the guards up.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

I strongly disagree with Saiwania, I strongly agree with the Director of the Jail who did the right thing, but I strongly respect Saiwania's and all persons rights to their opinions and views, even as I don't like them. It is on my new Sig.

[The Reformed American Republic]

There is this movement that seems to think that any police use of force is wrong, regardless of circumstances.

It takes away from actual instances of police abuse.

Indeed. Some people seem to have an agenda; one of victimhood no matter what.

[Senkaku]

I have seen the body cam footage and it did look pretty clear she was in the process of attempting to stab someone. The context is not clear and its even murkier seeing as she did call the police but it does seem like a really shitty situation all around.

And as a follow up here is the image at the point of the shooting:

Like its pretty clear what was about to happen, whether or not shooting her four times was nessessary is defintly a valid question and an investigation should be launched into this whole mess, but it does seem like a very murky situation.

That is a pretty unambiguous still, yes, fair enough.

spoken like someone who's never been pepper sprayed tbh, I seriously doubt a 15-year-old girl would require massive direct application to the face for it to take effect

Spoken like someone who believes pepper spray from more than 10 feet, and away from the facial openings, is actually effective.

Looked closer than 10 feet in the still Andsed posted? Maybe the riot sprayer things spray further than standard issue ones though. Either way, pepper spray probably wouldn't have stopped her from bringing her arm down, so a taser is probably the only imaginable alternative here.

You would think a public servant who's supposedly dedicated their career to putting their life on the line to protect their community would be willing to accept a slightly higher risk of getting stabbed and use a taser instead of mowing down a 15-year-old girl but ok

Spoken like someone who has never had their life in danger.

Isn't the whole premise of "why everyone should respect cops and other first responders and soldiers" that they... volunteer to do things that put their lives in danger?

Except, if you had bothered to actually review the case instead of exposing your ignorance on it, you would realize the girl wasn't trying to stab him but another girl. All of this, including the fact she was rearing back to stab her, is on video.

spoken like someone who's never been pepper sprayed tbh, I seriously doubt a 15-year-old girl would require massive direct application to the face for it to take effect

You would think a public servant who's supposedly dedicated their career to putting their life on the line to protect their community would be willing to accept a slightly higher risk of getting stabbed and use a taser instead of mowing down a 15-year-old girl but ok

Notably, he would actually be accepting the slightly higher risk of a +/- 15 year old girl holding a dog getting stabbed. She wasn't trying to stab him. She was trying to stab someone else.

did not say she was trying to stab him, was not aware till that still that she was literally in the process of winding up to stab the other girl who she had pinned against a car (fucking yikes) and figured it might've been a situation where she could've been tackled or something in time (obviously not), but still not going to feel bad for expressing a desire that they'd been able to resolve it without shooting her!

Notably, he would actually be accepting the slightly higher risk of a +/- 15 year old girl holding a dog getting stabbed. She wasn't trying to stab him. She was trying to stab someone else.

There is this movement that seems to think that any police use of force is wrong, regardless of circumstances.

It really, really isn't. Someone showed me the still and it does seem like force urgently needed to be applied. I still question if that had to entail shooting her four times, but it seems a bit weird for you to be sneering at people for not being acquainted with the respective physical positions of every person involved at the moment of the shooting because they didn't want to watch a video of a teenager getting killed (watch whatever gets you off, but I personally am not really into snuff).

There is this movement that seems to think that any police use of force is wrong, regardless of circumstances.

It takes away from actual instances of police abuse.

It literally doesn't oh my god. I avoided the bodycam video (I think for understandable reasons) and only had conflicting media reports to go off of, would you rather people in such a situation uncritically accepted the authorities' line on incidents like this?

[Greater Miami Shores]

There is this movement that seems to think that any police use of force is wrong, regardless of circumstances.

It takes away from actual instances of police abuse.

Another 2 great posts I strongly agree with.

[Galloism]

did not say she was trying to stab him, was not aware till that still that she was literally in the process of winding up to stab the other girl who she had pinned against a car (fucking yikes) and figured it might've been a situation where she could've been tackled or something in time (obviously not), but still not going to feel bad for expressing a desire that they'd been able to resolve it without shooting her!

It was definitely a yikes.

I'd suggest a taser might have been a better option (to your point), although some force was definitely necessary. It's a much murkier situation than some of the other killings on video we've seen lately (IE Floyd, Rittenhouse, Toledo, where things are much more clear).

One thing that did strike me funny (not funny ha-ha, funny interesting) was that the man who kicked a teenage girl in the head as hard as he could while she was on the ground immediately asked the officer was was wrong with him and that she was 15. He's not wrong per se, it's just... well, given his actions less than 5 seconds earlier it seemed really odd.

[Senkaku]

It takes away from actual instances of police abuse.

Indeed. Some people seem to have an agenda; one of victimhood no matter what.

Elaborate on how it's furthering an "agenda of victimhood" to think a 15-year-old didn't deserve to die! Yes, it seems the cop had no good options (taser her and risk the other girl still getting stabbed, or shoot her), so I'm not gonna spend my time saying he's a murderer or whatever-- but it seems to me to still be a situation where a society failed a child and left her in an unsafe situation, quite possibly with untreated mental health issues, until something went so wrong that the only option was to shoot her. Do you really think it's wrong to not really feel perfectly happy and content about living in a country where this happens fairly regularly?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

spoken like someone who's never been pepper sprayed tbh, I seriously doubt a 15-year-old girl would require massive direct application to the face for it to take effect

Spoken like someone who believes pepper spray from more than 10 feet, and away from the facial openings, is actually effective.

You would think a public servant who's supposedly dedicated their career to putting their life on the line to protect their community would be willing to accept a slightly higher risk of getting stabbed and use a taser instead of mowing down a 15-year-old girl but ok

Spoken like someone who has never had their life in danger.

Except, if you had bothered to actually review the case instead of exposing your ignorance on it, you would realize the girl wasn't trying to stab him but another girl. All of this, including the fact she was rearing back to stab her, is on video.

And a taser wouldn't work either? Who is this girl, wonderwoman?

[Senkaku]

did not say she was trying to stab him, was not aware till that still that she was literally in the process of winding up to stab the other girl who she had pinned against a car (fucking yikes) and figured it might've been a situation where she could've been tackled or something in time (obviously not), but still not going to feel bad for expressing a desire that they'd been able to resolve it without shooting her!

It was definitely a yikes.

I'd suggest a taser might have been a better option (to your point), although some force was definitely necessary. It's a much murkier situation than some of the other killings on video we've seen lately (IE Floyd, Rittenhouse, Toledo, where things are much more clear).

I mean, maybe in terms of the cop's personal culpability, but like... how the hell did she end up in this situation? How do you run a society so badly that potentially mentally ill 15-year-olds are brawling in the street with knives instead of... receiving the care and support they need to be healthy and safe?

One thing that did strike me funny (not funny ha-ha, funny interesting) was that the man who kicked a teenage girl in the head as hard as he could while she was on the ground immediately asked the officer was was wrong with him and that she was 15. He's not wrong per se, it's just... well, given his actions less than 5 seconds earlier it seemed really odd.

Eh, kicking a kid in the head is pretty fucking egregious, but not really on the same level as shooting them four times. I can see why that was the reaction.

[Senkaku]

Spoken like someone who believes pepper spray from more than 10 feet, and away from the facial openings, is actually effective.



Spoken like someone who has never had their life in danger.

Except, if you had bothered to actually review the case instead of exposing your ignorance on it, you would realize the girl wasn't trying to stab him but another girl. All of this, including the fact she was rearing back to stab her, is on video.

And a taser wouldn't work either? Who is this girl, wonderwoman?

Evidently not, since I think it was just demonstrated she wasn't bulletproof.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

And a taser wouldn't work either? Who is this girl, wonderwoman?

Is this superman?

That guy could be on drugs and he's a grown man. You can't seriously think a teen girl is gonna get tased and just look down at the dart then continue her rampage, right?

[Galloism]

It was definitely a yikes.

I'd suggest a taser might have been a better option (to your point), although some force was definitely necessary. It's a much murkier situation than some of the other killings on video we've seen lately (IE Floyd, Rittenhouse, Toledo, where things are much more clear).

I mean, maybe in terms of the cop's personal culpability, but like... how the hell did she end up in this situation? How do you run a society so badly that potentially mentally ill 15-year-olds are brawling in the street with knives instead of... receiving the care and support they need to be healthy and safe?

Another fantastically good question. All I really know about things before the, well, let's call it "the event" is that she was apparently in foster care at that time.

There's been some speculation that she made the 911 call in the first place, but I haven't gotten any proof to confirm or disprove that yet.

One thing that did strike me funny (not funny ha-ha, funny interesting) was that the man who kicked a teenage girl in the head as hard as he could while she was on the ground immediately asked the officer was was wrong with him and that she was 15. He's not wrong per se, it's just... well, given his actions less than 5 seconds earlier it seemed really odd.

Eh, kicking a kid in the head is pretty fucking egregious, but not really on the same level as shooting them four times. I can see why that was the reaction.

It's deadly force is what it is, just so you know.

It's not AS deadly as shooting someone four times of course, but kicking someone in the head as hard as you can is deadly force under any legal standard.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Yes, it seems the cop had no good options...

And that's what matters. You think I like the fact that a 15 year old was shot and killed? No, I don't, but this is hardly an instance of police brutality. Tragic, yes, but there isn't this obvious option that the officer had at the time.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Yes, it seems the cop had no good options...

And that's what matters. You think I like the fact that a 15 year old was shot and killed? No, I don't, but this is hardly an instance of police brutality. Tragic, yes, but there isn't this obvious option that the officer had at the time.

This wasn't a murder. It was a tragedy but the police involved don't deserve to be Punished, and for all we know they did not enjoy having to do this.

[Omniabstracta]

Spoken like someone who believes pepper spray from more than 10 feet, and away from the facial openings, is actually effective.



Spoken like someone who has never had their life in danger.

Except, if you had bothered to actually review the case instead of exposing your ignorance on it, you would realize the girl wasn't trying to stab him but another girl. All of this, including the fact she was rearing back to stab her, is on video.

And a taser wouldn't work either? Who is this girl, wonderwoman?

To be fair, a taser is 90% pain compliance, and the adrenaline rush and exhilaration associated with charged situations like a multiple-person fight and running with a knife can override a lot of its usefulness as an instrument to immediately disable somebody. I’m not at all defending what happened, and I think nonlethal force and deescalation should’ve been used to better effect earlier, it’s just that tasers aren’t guaranteed as an instant total knockout or able to stop somebody in their tracks on a dime or something.

[Senkaku]

I mean, maybe in terms of the cop's personal culpability, but like... how the hell did she end up in this situation? How do you run a society so badly that potentially mentally ill 15-year-olds are brawling in the street with knives instead of... receiving the care and support they need to be healthy and safe?

Another fantastically good question. All I really know about things before the, well, let's call it "the event" is that she was apparently in foster care at that time.

There's been some speculation that she made the 911 call in the first place, but I haven't gotten any proof to confirm or disprove that yet.

I've seen variously that she was reporting girls fighting outside or reporting that she was being abused at home... whatever the case may be, it's not really a positive reflection on the American state that its most significant interaction with her appears to have been sending an armed security agent to kill her when her situation got so bad that she became a mortal threat to someone else.

It's deadly force is what it is, just so you know.

It's not AS deadly as shooting someone four times of course, but kicking someone in the head as hard as you can is deadly force under any legal standard.

The "as deadly" part would be what I refer to, yes, I'm not under some impression that massive cranial trauma is good for you.