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by Sundiata » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:59 am
by Ainland » Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:09 am
Vassenor wrote:New Acardia wrote:I am going to ask a un popular question
How many of theses LGBT are only LGBT because it is now the cool thing to say or had goofy adults pound it (figuratively) in to there head that are LGBT ?
Why don't you start by establishing with actual objective evidence that this is a thing that happens.
by The New California Republic » Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:52 am
by Necroghastia » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:58 am
New Acardia wrote:In certain groups (Wealthy white upper class liberals . Who view it as a status symbol to have a
LGBT child)
by The New California Republic » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:03 am
by Vassenor » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:11 am
by Auzkhia » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:22 am
by Kilobugya » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:26 am
Vassenor wrote:Plus it's the classic TERF claim about TRAs forcing gay kids to be trans instead.
by Auzkhia » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:28 am
by The New California Republic » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:30 am
by Vassenor » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:32 am
The New California Republic wrote:Kilobugya wrote:
Are TERF actually a real thing in the "real world", apart from a vocal but very small group on the Internet ? Here in France I don't think they really exist.
They hijacked London Pride a few years ago.
by Ainland » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:33 am
The New California Republic wrote:Yup, the "they literally asked a question, they didn't make a claim" theory rings hollow.
by Kilobugya » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:34 am
Vassenor wrote:And forced the withdrawal of healthcare from trans* teens and kids last year.
by The New California Republic » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:36 am
by Vassenor » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:44 am
Just asking questions (also known as JAQing off) is a way of attempting to make wild accusations acceptable (and hopefully not legally actionable) by framing them as questions rather than statements. It shifts the burden of proof to one's opponent; rather than laboriously having to prove that all politicians are reptoid scum, one can pull out one single odd piece of evidence and force the opponent to explain why the evidence is wrong.
The tactic is closely related to loaded questions or leading questions (which are usually employed when using it), Gish Gallops (when asking a huge number of rapid-fire questions without regard for the answers) and Argumentum ad nauseam (when asking the same question over and over in an attempt to overwhelm refutations).
It should be noted that accusing one's opponent of "just asking questions" is a common derailment tactic and a way of poisoning the well. Asking questions in and of itself is not invalid.
The subjective nature of this charge, and its consequent ripeness for abuse, means that deploying it can be a very inflammatory move. One side may put forward the accusation that the other side is cynically "just asking questions" and believe that they are acting in good faith, and the other side may equally strongly believe that they were asking genuine questions in good faith and the first person is the one acting in bad faith.
by The New California Republic » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:57 am
Ainland wrote:I mean how much would it really hurt to just assume good faith, and give a sensible answer? A better and more effectively approach than all this, I'd argue.
by The New California Republic » Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:09 am
by The New California Republic » Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:20 am
by Prydania » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:32 pm
Ainland wrote:I mean how much would it really hurt to just assume good faith, and give a sensible answer? A better and more effectively approach than all this, I'd argue.
by Ainland » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:41 pm
Prydania wrote:Ainland wrote:I mean how much would it really hurt to just assume good faith, and give a sensible answer? A better and more effectively approach than all this, I'd argue.
I broadly assume good faith on the internet because it's better than not assuming that, but sometimes the person in question is so obvious in their conduct that it would be foolish for me to do so. I don't believe the person was "just asking a question" in good faith here. I believe they were asking a "question" meant to push a reactionary, bigoted viewpoint, given their follow-up statement. As much as I wish they weren't doing that it would be foolish for me to assume the best when all the available evidence is telling to I shouldn't.
To take the tone of your question and turn it around on the bigots in this thread...
How much would it really hurt to just accept your fellow human beings regarding their own personal orientations?
If you don't know a LGBTQ+ person then why do you care what strangers you don't know do in their bedrooms with significant others?
If you do know a LGBTQ+ person then why do you want to make that person's life miserable by forcing them to deny how they were born?
You see a lot of bad faith arguments here- that the number of open LGBTQ+ is only increasing because it's "trendy" or because of "pedophiles."
Both of which are nonsense arguments the study itself disproves, and are only desperate goalpost moving by people who REALLY want to remain bigoted when society is by and large moving to be more open.
So again...how much would it really hurt to just accept your fellow humans for who they are? It seems like the people upset about the fact that society is more accepting are expending far too much energy to remain bigoted.
You might point out that these questions I aim at transphobes and homophobes are loaded- and they are. I'm making a point about the ridiculousness of their continued bigotry and how silly it is that they jump through hoops to justify hating someone for an innate trait.
by Auzkhia » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:36 pm
Ainland wrote:I mean how much would it really hurt to just assume good faith, and give a sensible answer? A better and more effectively approach than all this, I'd argue.
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