Emigrating from the USA to Europe

[Sibirsky]

I have an economic erection for Ireland.

[Great Void]

I have an economic erection for Ireland.

As you should. If you have money to invest, then it is time to invest in Ireland.

[Glorious Homeland]

Ireland's Celtic tiger has been hit by a proverbial bus. It'll take a while to recover, and even then, their economy isn't as strong and diverse as Germany with it's large manufacturing firms. No doubt the Republic will dust itself off and grow again, but it's no Norway or Sweden.

Oh stop. As long as they refuse to pay reparations to the EU, they'll be fine. (Fucking Germans, storming around the EU starting bank runs and demanding smaller countries then take 'rescue' loans. Well I'll hear no more pissing and moaning about the treaty of Versailles from those hypocritical sausage suckers, and henceforth any Hitler problems will be solely on the German heads).

But as long as Ireland keeps its awesome tax system it's going to do fine. It has a really educated law abiding population. I'd spend more time worrying about the UK TBH, which is a fucking train wreck waiting to happen.

Okay UKIP, calm down for a second and let's ignore your outdated racism for the Germans

...seriously, when we're comparing western European countries "really educated" and "law abiding" aren't really viable comparisons, especially since there's still more IRA-related terrorism being plotted in the Republic for across the border than say, Germany's native terrorists... so no, I don't think "law abiding" is something that you can actually say is more true of the Republic than other European countries. Indeed, in the latest PISA study Ireland did noticeably worse than the UK, while 6 years previously it had done slightly better. Irish universities are also not exactly in the top 100 in the world. So the claim it's "really educated" isn't true either.

Unlike the Republic, no one is talking about "bailing out" or loaning the UK "train wreck" economy money... so the idea that it's in a worse position seems a very inaccurate assessment. And you'll have to elaborate on why the Republic's tax system is "awesome" compared to other western European tax systems in a case by case comparison. Compare it to say, the UK or Germany.

Isn't the downside that the Finns as a people are notoriously shy and rarely discuss their true emotions or feelings to a fault? Could be a lot worse things to a fault, but still. From what I've heard...

Yeah. That was true some 20-30 years ago. Nowadays we can't get people to shut up anymore. And if you happen to find a shy Finn, just add booze...

Interesting.

[Cerod]

If you live in Europe(Apart from Ireland) HAHA! I live in Ireland and your tax goes to me! hehe

[Athenarena]

Be nice Cerod, we do not want to scare all the investors away

[Cerod]

Be nice Cerod, we do not want to scare all the investors away

hehe. I'm gonna ROFL when Britain crashes

[Glorious Homeland]

Be nice Cerod, we do not want to scare all the investors away

hehe. I'm gonna ROFL when Britain crashes

Because that's more likely than it happening to Ireland... :\ where do you people get your economic information? The Irish Communist Party's quarterly assessment?

[Jerenia]

Yeah. That was true some 20-30 years ago. Nowadays we can't get people to shut up anymore. And if you happen to find a shy Finn, just add booze...

Interesting.

Such thing as shyness doesn't exist in Finland. We call it soothing silence.

[Great Void]

If you live in Europe(Apart from Ireland) HAHA! I live in Ireland and your tax goes to me! hehe

Well, if you live near Galway or Kilkenny you might just find me moving to a house next to yours. Seriously considering buying a house there.
Laid back people, nice weather (yeah, well, I'm from Finland, so...), cheap (bringing my own cigarrettes) and lush. The only thing worrying me right now is wether buying a house in Ireland is as much of a hassle than renting one in the UK was.
One thing is for sure; not buying estate in Greece - my parents still spend their vacations in a half built villa after 3 years.

[Marcurix]

It could be that Militsia's relatives/friends are in one of those professions where unemployment rate is 30% in the US. Overall unemployment rate here is 20%. It's extremely high, and part of the reason why Dems got booted in Midterms. Obama was supposed to create jobs, he failed at that. So they could be trying to figure out where to move, due to lack of a job. In America, people only have savings for about 2 months, so if a person lost a job and cannot find another within a month - panic sets it. Personally, although I'm not considering moving to the EU, I find this thread helpful.

The unemployment rate nationally for the US is hovering around 10%

[Farnhamia]

It could be that Militsia's relatives/friends are in one of those professions where unemployment rate is 30% in the US. Overall unemployment rate here is 20%. It's extremely high, and part of the reason why Dems got booted in Midterms. Obama was supposed to create jobs, he failed at that. So they could be trying to figure out where to move, due to lack of a job. In America, people only have savings for about 2 months, so if a person lost a job and cannot find another within a month - panic sets it. Personally, although I'm not considering moving to the EU, I find this thread helpful.

The unemployment rate nationally for the US is hovering around 10%

It depends on how you want to calculate the numbers. If you include people who are no longer actively seeking work, it goes up from the low 9.somethings to around 22%.

[Sibirsky]

Oh stop. As long as they refuse to pay reparations to the EU, they'll be fine. (Fucking Germans, storming around the EU starting bank runs and demanding smaller countries then take 'rescue' loans. Well I'll hear no more pissing and moaning about the treaty of Versailles from those hypocritical sausage suckers, and henceforth any Hitler problems will be solely on the German heads).

But as long as Ireland keeps its awesome tax system it's going to do fine. It has a really educated law abiding population. I'd spend more time worrying about the UK TBH, which is a fucking train wreck waiting to happen.

Okay UKIP, calm down for a second and let's ignore your outdated racism for the Germans

...seriously, when we're comparing western European countries "really educated" and "law abiding" aren't really viable comparisons, especially since there's still more IRA-related terrorism being plotted in the Republic for across the border than say, Germany's native terrorists... so no, I don't think "law abiding" is something that you can actually say is more true of the Republic than other European countries. Indeed, in the latest PISA study Ireland did noticeably worse than the UK, while 6 years previously it had done slightly better. Irish universities are also not exactly in the top 100 in the world. So the claim it's "really educated" isn't true either.

Unlike the Republic, no one is talking about "bailing out" or loaning the UK "train wreck" economy money... so the idea that it's in a worse position seems a very inaccurate assessment. And you'll have to elaborate on why the Republic's tax system is "awesome" compared to other western European tax systems in a case by case comparison. Compare it to say, the UK or Germany.

GDP per capita, in chained 2005 USD, 1969-2010 for Ireland and Germany.

Projected GDP per capita, in chained 2005 USD, for Ireland and Germany 2010-2030

And you've got to be kidding about why Ireland's tax system is awesome. Start with a 12.5% corporate tax rate that has attracted foreign investment, created jobs, and created that Germany surpassing growth. That compares to top rates of 39% in the US (in addition to state taxes), 21-28% rates in the UK and and average rate of 29.8% in Germany.
Personal taxes go up to 41% and are indeed high. But relatively comparable to US' 35% (set to go to 39.6% perhaps?), the UK's 50% top rate and Germany's 45%.

[Cerod]

If you live in Europe(Apart from Ireland) HAHA! I live in Ireland and your tax goes to me! hehe

Well, if you live near Galway or Kilkenny you might just find me moving to a house next to yours. Seriously considering buying a house there.
Laid back people, nice weather (yeah, well, I'm from Finland, so...), cheap (bringing my own cigarrettes) and lush. The only thing worrying me right now is wether buying a house in Ireland is as much of a hassle than renting one in the UK was.
One thing is for sure; not buying estate in Greece - my parents still spend their vacations in a half built villa after 3 years.

I wouln't recommend it

[Great Void]

Well, if you live near Galway or Kilkenny you might just find me moving to a house next to yours. Seriously considering buying a house there.
Laid back people, nice weather (yeah, well, I'm from Finland, so...), cheap (bringing my own cigarrettes) and lush. The only thing worrying me right now is wether buying a house in Ireland is as much of a hassle than renting one in the UK was.
One thing is for sure; not buying estate in Greece - my parents still spend their vacations in a half built villa after 3 years.

I wouln't recommend it

Great! Sounds like a recommendation to me!

[Glorious Homeland]

GDP per capita, in chained 2005 USD, 1969-2010 for Ireland and Germany.

Projected GDP per capita, in chained 2005 USD, for Ireland and Germany 2010-2030

And you've got to be kidding about why Ireland's tax system is awesome. Start with a 12.5% corporate tax rate that has attracted foreign investment, created jobs, and created that Germany surpassing growth. That compares to top rates of 39% in the US (in addition to state taxes), 21-28% rates in the UK and and average rate of 29.8% in Germany.
Personal taxes go up to 41% and are indeed high. But relatively comparable to US' 35% (set to go to 39.6% perhaps?), the UK's 50% top rate and Germany's 45%.

So it's the tax rates, not the tax system... I thought you were referring to some structural difference which made it amazing. Of course when average incomes rise, what do you think will happen to the tax system? When the cost of supporting the dependants in society goes up as average earnings are more? Unless Ireland becomes a Swiss-like mecca for home-grown multi-billion dollar international companies, costs will have to be paid for with a rise in taxation. I don't say Ireland isn't good, but it's not the best because its economy isn't as large, diversified or established as many of its larger peers. It's certainly no Norway with almost entirely hydroelectric power generation and a vast oil surplus. There's a serious risk that long term overconfidence in large profitable sectors (like housing) will lead to an Iceland-like demise. I'm sure Ireland will do well and continue to grow, but the problem is that there are fundamental weaknesses which threaten to topple the system due to over reliance on particular sectors, otherwise there would be no talk of the possibility of the EU bailing them out right now.

Lol, 41% isn't high taxation... Denmark's 62% for the highest earners is high.

[Lacadaemon]

Okay UKIP, calm down for a second and let's ignore your outdated racism for the Germans

No really, the current crisis with the Irish banking system (though it is irretrievably broken in any case) was started by Merkel. The Germans engineered the bank run because they want to tie the Eurozone periphery into some kind of EU monster bailout/protectorate system in order to protect the humongous losses their banks are sitting on. So they are trying to ram this through in order to: a) cover up the fact their banks are in worse shape than the most badly run hedge fund (owing to their insane leverage ratios and poor 'investment' choices); and, b) get everyone else in the EU to help bail their banks out. The Germans are dancing on the raggedy fucking edge of all this and they know it, so they have to try and finesse something that will get them out of Weimar v. 2.0. Unfortunately people who are blindly into the whole EU project - mostly because they do not understand it but like it anyway because it warms the cockles of their black socialist hearts - refuse to look closely at what is actually going on here, and instead just insist that bailout = EU = good. Yet the whole thing is, in fact, utterly reprehensible from beginning to end. The Germans should be told to go pound sand. Ireland should pull an Iceland.

...seriously, when we're comparing western European countries "really educated" and "law abiding" aren't really viable comparisons, especially since there's still more IRA-related terrorism being plotted in the Republic for across the border than say, Germany's native terrorists... so no, I don't think "law abiding" is something that you can actually say is more true of the Republic than other European countries. Indeed, in the latest PISA study Ireland did noticeably worse than the UK, while 6 years previously it had done slightly better. Irish universities are also not exactly in the top 100 in the world. So the claim it's "really educated" isn't true either.

The Irish secondary education system is vastly superior to the UKs. And that's what really matters workforce wise. All this tertiary stuff is UN sponsored crap. As for crime, no really, Ireland - outside of stabbytown (Limerick) - is super safe. Also, economics wise, Irish workforces steal from their own companies less: which is why, amongst other things, multinationals like to base there.

And I mean, it's great and all that the UK can educate a tiny portion of its population to world class standards, must make them feel good and all. But it doesn't mean very much in terms of day to day operations, since there's not enough of them to go round 60,000,000. It's a bit like East Germany winning all those olympic medals, it doesn't mean very much.

Unlike the Republic, no one is talking about "bailing out" or loaning the UK "train wreck" economy money... so the idea that it's in a worse position seems a very inaccurate assessment. And you'll have to elaborate on why the Republic's tax system is "awesome" compared to other western European tax systems in a case by case comparison. Compare it to say, the UK or Germany.

Nobody is talking about the UK's problems because its external liabilities would sink the EU completely. It's a TBTF country. Just like Italy, but moreso. And apart from the huge problems lurking within its financial system, structurally it is FUBAR. Even the Gov. of the Bank of England - Merv the Swerve - admitted that any government that undertook the sort of structural reforms needed to fix the UK would be out of power for a generation. The UKs day is coming, and no-one anywhere can stop it, which is why no-one is talking about it. The best the UK can hope for is some sort of Japan^2 situation, though I suspect it will end up looking far more like a south american country in the 80s.

Ireland, on the other hand, has already fixed its structural problems. If it wasn't for the problems with the banking system, it would be well on the road to recovery. And since those problems are really other people's, I don't see why they should consider doing any more.

[Sibirsky]

Lol, 41% isn't high taxation... Denmark's 62% for the highest earners is high.

The hell it is. Getting 59 cents of every dollar you earn is ridiculous.

Andorra, Brunei, Monaco, UAE, and BVI have no personal income taxes.

[Great Void]

Lol, 41% isn't high taxation... Denmark's 62% for the highest earners is high.

The hell it is. Getting 59 cents of every dollar you earn is ridiculous.

Andorra, Brunei, Monaco, UAE, and BVI have no personal income taxes.

Those poor bastards are so ass-backwards they can't/could not bother to even exploit their own natural riches, that's why no taxes. Well, Andorra's and Monaco's natural richness is the no tax thing...

[Glorious Homeland]

Okay UKIP, calm down for a second and let's ignore your outdated racism for the Germans

No really, the current crisis with the Irish banking system (though it is irretrievably broken in any case) was started by Merkel. The Germans engineered the bank run because they want to tie the Eurozone periphery into some kind of EU monster bailout/protectorate system in order to protect the humongous losses their banks are sitting on. So they are trying to ram this through in order to: a) cover up the fact their banks are in worse shape than the most badly run hedge fund (owing to their insane leverage ratios and poor 'investment' choices); and, b) get everyone else in the EU to help bail their banks out. The Germans are dancing on the raggedy fucking edge of all this and they know it, so they have to try and finesse something that will get them out of Weimar v. 2.0. Unfortunately people who are blindly into the whole EU project - mostly because they do not understand it but like it anyway because it warms the cockles of their black socialist hearts - refuse to look closely at what is actually going on here, and instead just insist that bailout = EU = good. Yet the whole thing is, in fact, utterly reprehensible from beginning to end. The Germans should be told to go pound sand. Ireland should pull an Iceland.

...seriously, when we're comparing western European countries "really educated" and "law abiding" aren't really viable comparisons, especially since there's still more IRA-related terrorism being plotted in the Republic for across the border than say, Germany's native terrorists... so no, I don't think "law abiding" is something that you can actually say is more true of the Republic than other European countries. Indeed, in the latest PISA study Ireland did noticeably worse than the UK, while 6 years previously it had done slightly better. Irish universities are also not exactly in the top 100 in the world. So the claim it's "really educated" isn't true either.

The Irish secondary education system is vastly superior to the UKs. And that's what really matters workforce wise. All this tertiary stuff is UN sponsored crap. As for crime, no really, Ireland - outside of stabbytown (Limerick) - is super safe. Also, economics wise, Irish workforces steal from their own companies less: which is why, amongst other things, multinationals like to base there.

And I mean, it's great and all that the UK can educate a tiny portion of its population to world class standards, must make them feel good and all. But it doesn't mean very much in terms of day to day operations, since there's not enough of them to go round 60,000,000. It's a bit like East Germany winning all those olympic medals, it doesn't mean very much.

Unlike the Republic, no one is talking about "bailing out" or loaning the UK "train wreck" economy money... so the idea that it's in a worse position seems a very inaccurate assessment. And you'll have to elaborate on why the Republic's tax system is "awesome" compared to other western European tax systems in a case by case comparison. Compare it to say, the UK or Germany.

Nobody is talking about the UK's problems because its external liabilities would sink the EU completely. It's a TBTF country. Just like Italy, but moreso. And apart from the huge problems lurking within its financial system, structurally it is FUBAR. Even the Gov. of the Bank of England - Merv the Swerve - admitted that any government that undertook the sort of structural reforms needed to fix the UK would be out of power for a generation. The UKs day is coming, and no-one anywhere can stop it, which is why no-one is talking about it. The best the UK can hope for is some sort of Japan^2 situation, though I suspect it will end up looking far more like a south american country in the 80s.

Ireland, on the other hand, has already fixed its structural problems. If it wasn't for the problems with the banking system, it would be well on the road to recovery. And since those problems are really other people's, I don't see why they should consider doing any more.

That's all well and good, but care to cite any of these things you speak of? You're also refuting PISA as a relevant gauge of a country's educational ability?

[Sibirsky]

The hell it is. Getting 59 cents of every dollar you earn is ridiculous.

Andorra, Brunei, Monaco, UAE, and BVI have no personal income taxes.

Those poor bastards are so ass-backwards they can't/could not bother to even exploit their own natural riches, that's why no taxes. Well, Andorra's and Monaco's natural richness is the no tax thing...

Andorra and Monaco are the shit. UAE ain't too bad. BVI is fucking gorgeous.

[Quailtopia]

Norway or Sweden.

Agree

Wait, I forgot about the ideas you were posting in other threads.

The UK is probably the best place for you.

[Glorious Homeland]

Lol, 41% isn't high taxation... Denmark's 62% for the highest earners is high.

The hell it is. Getting 59 cents of every dollar you earn is ridiculous.

Andorra, Brunei, Monaco, UAE, and BVI have no personal income taxes.

Care not to use inflammatory smilies?
Most western countries require high income tax to pay for public services, you're basing the idea that 41% is high on the idea that it almost takes most of your money, rather than comparing income tax rates across the developed world to assess the average taxation required to pay for public services.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world
Max Income tax rates:

Japan: 50%
Belgium: 50%
France: 40%
Italy: 43%
Australia: 45%
Germany: 45%
Luxembourg: 39%
New Zealand: 33%
Norway: 47.8%
Sweden: 59%
Finland: 53%
Spain: 47%
Austria: 50%
Denmark: 57% (thought it was 62%...)
Portugal: 40%
Greece: 45%
UK: 50%
Netherlands: 52%
Iceland: 46%
USA: 45%
Switzerland: 13%
Ireland: 41%
Canada: 53%

It's not a high income tax rate considering real averages. In the western world, anything below that would be considered low, at worst it's average. Unless you just ignore the costs of running a western country or kill public services. You see where I'm coming from?

[Quailtopia]

Those poor bastards are so ass-backwards they can't/could not bother to even exploit their own natural riches, that's why no taxes. Well, Andorra's and Monaco's natural richness is the no tax thing...

Andorra and Monaco are the shit. UAE ain't too bad. BVI is fucking gorgeous.

WOO DUBAI!

No war but class war

[Sibirsky]

Care not to use inflammatory smilies?
Most western countries require high income tax to pay for public services, you're basing the idea that 41% is high on the idea that it almost takes most of your money, rather than comparing income tax rates across the developed world to assess the average taxation required to pay for public services.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world
Max Income tax rates:

Japan: 50%
Belgium: 50%
France: 40%
Italy: 43%
Australia: 45%
Germany: 45%
Luxembourg: 39%
New Zealand: 33%
Norway: 47.8%
Sweden: 59%
Finland: 53%
Spain: 47%
Austria: 50%
Denmark: 57% (thought it was 62%...)
Portugal: 40%
Greece: 45%
UK: 50%
Netherlands: 52%
Iceland: 46%
USA: 45%
Switzerland: 13%
Ireland: 41%
Canada: 53%

It's not a high income tax rate considering real averages. In the western world, anything below that would be considered low, at worst it's average. Unless you just ignore the costs of running a western country or kill public services. You see where I'm coming from?

Yes, I see where you're coming from. I'm coming from an idea that people should ultimately be responsible for their own services some of which are provided by the government in those nations, to a greater extent, and hence should have a lower tax rate. Switzerland looks damn fine in that list.

[Sibirsky]

Andorra and Monaco are the shit. UAE ain't too bad. BVI is fucking gorgeous.

WOO DUBAI!

No war but class war

That's not Dubai.