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Infantry Discussion Thread part 11: Gallas Razor edition.

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Champagne Socialist Sharifistan
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Posts: 4471
Founded: Dec 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:43 am

Is this a believable profile of a typical infantry Private:
- 17.5 years old
- male
- born in Sharifistan (the country he fights for)
- Muslim
-Pashtun
-Has 1 wife and 1 mistress
-Apart from the mistress he's practising (doesn't drink, prays 5 times a day when operational demands permit etcetera).
-Son of a factory worker and his wife (a housewife)
-Political ideology: Islamic constitutional monarchism, Sharifistani nationalism.
-Height: 5 ft 11 inches
Last edited by Champagne Socialist Sharifistan on Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
A nation which partly represents my views.
Founder of the Traditionalist Military Alliance:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=493756
The Turkish War of Independence and everything before along with 2014 modernisation are set in stone.
Everything else is subject to change

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Crookfur
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Crookfur » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:53 am

Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:Is this a believable profile of a typical infantry Private:
- 17.5 years old
- male
- born in Sharifistan (the country he fights for)
- Muslim
-Pashtun
-Has 1 wife and 1 mistress
-Apart from the mistress he's practising (doesn't drink, prays 5 times a day when operational demands permit etcetera).
-Son of a factory worker and his wife (a housewife)
-Political ideology: Islamic constitutional monarchism, Sharifistani nationalism.
-Height: 5 ft 12 inches

Absolutely not. This is the most unrealistic thing I have ever seen, 5ft 12 is totally impossible!
The Kingdom of Crookfur
Your ordinary everyday scotiodanavian freedom loving utopia!

And yes I do like big old guns, why do you ask?

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TPFII
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Founded: Jan 21, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby TPFII » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:46 am

Crookfur wrote:-snip-


If recoil operating firearms that employ a rotating barrel don't have such a restriction, why would a rotating barrel blowback? It's going to end up with a long bullet to cheat the wind better, so that would help.

Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:-snip-


It's more realistic than my soldiers are tbh. I like it.

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Crookfur
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Crookfur » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:43 am

TPFII wrote:
Crookfur wrote:-snip-


If recoil operating firearms that employ a rotating barrel don't have such a restriction, why would a rotating barrel blowback? It's going to end up with a long bullet to cheat the wind better, so that would help.

Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:-snip-


It's more realistic than my soldiers are tbh. I like it.

On short recoil rotating barrel designs, it's the rearward movement of the barrel along a cam that turns the barrel not torque generated by the bullet
The Kingdom of Crookfur
Your ordinary everyday scotiodanavian freedom loving utopia!

And yes I do like big old guns, why do you ask?

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TPFII
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Postby TPFII » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:12 am

Perhaps, but rotating recoil-operated firearms can still use energy captured by the rifling to help time the system. The Beretta PX4 is a pertinent example, as it has rifling and locking lugs that are intentionally cut in the opposite direction. Since the operating mechanism is only serving to unlock the action around a rotational axis I don't know think it would require additional energy, and could potentially be more precise than a recoil operated rifle as a result of the barrel inherently moving less.

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Gallia-
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Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:22 am

Crookfur wrote:
Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:Is this a believable profile of a typical infantry Private:
- 17.5 years old
- male
- born in Sharifistan (the country he fights for)
- Muslim
-Pashtun
-Has 1 wife and 1 mistress
-Apart from the mistress he's practising (doesn't drink, prays 5 times a day when operational demands permit etcetera).
-Son of a factory worker and his wife (a housewife)
-Political ideology: Islamic constitutional monarchism, Sharifistani nationalism.
-Height: 5 ft 12 inches

Absolutely not. This is the most unrealistic thing I have ever seen, 5ft 12 is totally impossible!


List of longest things in the world:
1) A piece of string.
2) The ideal rifle barrel.
3) The distance between 6' and 5' 12".

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TPFII
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Founded: Jan 21, 2021
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Postby TPFII » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:14 pm

How about a reversed muzzle booster to drive the barrel forward and unlock a flapper locked bolt, which is then blown back? I'm not sure what that would do for the recoil, but I almost wonder if it'd be BARS-like since the action doesn't start reciprocating until after the bullet leaves the barrel.

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Triplebaconation
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Postby Triplebaconation » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:49 pm

Think about that for a moment.
Proverbs 23:9.

Things are a bit larger than you appear to think, my friend.

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TPFII
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Postby TPFII » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:03 pm

The bolt carrier could telescope onto the barrel trunnion, the barrel is driven forward shearing the locking lugs open, and the bolt is driven backwards by residual gas pressure. What doesn't work about it? :)
Last edited by TPFII on Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Triplebaconation
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Postby Triplebaconation » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:48 pm

If you visualize the forces at play you'll see you're relying on exponentially-decreasing residual pressure to perform at least three times as much work as a typical automatic action with more energy available.

There were some weird 19th-early 20th century designs with similar concepts but I'm not aware of any that bothered with blowing the entire barrel forward - again you should reflect on why this is impractical.
Last edited by Triplebaconation on Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proverbs 23:9.

Things are a bit larger than you appear to think, my friend.

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TPFII
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Postby TPFII » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:07 am

Admittedly I don't see why it would require 3x the work, but I can acknowledge that I'm not a mechanical engineer. It's supposed to be lighter weight and outrange the IJA, and be accepted by military brass averse to adding a gas tube because of the local biome. It sounds like I'm stuck on recoil or blowback operation, so now I'm just trying to decide on how they would employ that. They probably get a gas-operated rifle later so it doesn't need to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

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Austrasien
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Founded: Apr 07, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Austrasien » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:30 pm

TPFII wrote:The bolt carrier could telescope onto the barrel trunnion, the barrel is driven forward shearing the locking lugs open, and the bolt is driven backwards by residual gas pressure. What doesn't work about it? :)


The pressure has already dropped a lot by the time the bullet reaches the muzzle. Using a muzzle brake to drag the barrel forward and unlock the bolt isn't going to be very fast with a reasonably designed muzzle brake (you cannot just direct the gas straight back into the operators face...), and now you are relying on whatever is left of the pressure to cycle the whole action.

Having a high-efficiency muzzle brake aka "reverse booster" is essential to this action and the downsides of these are well known.
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Triplebaconation
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Postby Triplebaconation » Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:39 pm

Three times the work just refers to the times the residual pressure must actually arrest and reverse the momentum of a major component compared to normal operations. Actual joules that need to be extracted will be much higher since barrels are heavy.

The "I need a weird rifle because of my culture/jungle etc" is a trope that won't die, but if you really want to avoid a gas port because there are trees or something obviously the entire barrel doesn't have to move. You can blow a cup or sleeve or whatever forwards or backwards. Note that every military initially opposed to gas ports quickly changed their minds after the first batch of rifles.
Proverbs 23:9.

Things are a bit larger than you appear to think, my friend.

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Arkandros
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Founded: Jul 11, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Arkandros » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:14 pm

Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:Is this a believable profile of a typical infantry Private:
- 17.5 years old
- male
- born in Sharifistan (the country he fights for)
- Muslim
-Pashtun
-Has 1 wife and 1 mistress
-Apart from the mistress he's practising (doesn't drink, prays 5 times a day when operational demands permit etcetera).
-Son of a factory worker and his wife (a housewife)
-Political ideology: Islamic constitutional monarchism, Sharifistani nationalism.
-Height: 5 ft 11 inches

Why do you insist on mistresses? Also, statistically speaking, this implies that there is a 2 to 1 female to male ratio, or a significant number of Eskimo brothers amongst your armed forces.
Besides that, your “average” is also rather young, since assuming a fairly typical 4 year service, the average soldier must have enlisted prior to his 15th birthday (since “career” soldiers will be much older and drag the average up rapidly).
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Countesia
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Posts: 766
Founded: Oct 10, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Countesia » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:33 pm

Hi.

Possibly stupid question.

How are modern armies transported to battlefields across the sea? For example, almost 200,000 American and British troops invaded Iraq, would this have been done through troop transports or by plane?

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Gallia-
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Posts: 23179
Founded: Oct 09, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gallia- » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:38 pm

Countesia wrote:Hi.

Possibly stupid question.

How are modern armies transported to battlefields across the sea? For example, almost 200,000 American and British troops invaded Iraq, would this have been done through troop transports or by plane?


Troops by plane and equipment by ships.

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Amidia-
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Posts: 32
Founded: Jan 16, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Amidia- » Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:07 pm

I have come up with the basic permutation for an Amidian rifle platoon but have no real idea what to do for special weapons in a squad that replaces LMGs with just a lot I IARs with bigger magazines, also not a 100% on keeping around a platoon guide but I like having spare leaders to reduce the load on command and control.

Platoon Troop (1 Officer and 5 enlisted)
Platoon Commander (OF-1) IAR, GL
Platoon Sergeant (OR-5) IAR, GL
Platoon Guide (OR-4) IAR, GL
Radioman (OR-1) IAR
Mortarman (OR-3) IAR
Assistant Mortarman(OR-1) IAR
Combat Medic (OR-1) IAR**
Forward Observer (OR-1) IAR**
Forward Observer Radioman (OR-1) IAR**

Rifle squad (10 Enlisted)
Squad Leader (OR-4) IAR, GL
Deputy Squad Leader (OR-3) IAR, GL
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets

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Spirit of Hope
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Posts: 9965
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:22 pm

Countesia wrote:Hi.

Possibly stupid question.

How are modern armies transported to battlefields across the sea? For example, almost 200,000 American and British troops invaded Iraq, would this have been done through troop transports or by plane?


It is going to depend a bit, based on the types of troops you are deploying, where you are deploying them, and the agreements you have with any neighboring or near by nations.

Generally it is just about as fast to ship the vehicles of a mechanized force by ship as it is by air, while a ship takes longer they can carry a lot more per ship and the amount of large cargo planes that can handle armored vehicles is rather limited. That said, aircraft that can move troops are plentiful and troops can be crammed into spaces rather effectively. So it wouldn't be unexpected to move the vehicles by ship and troops by air.

A note to add to this is that the US has a lot of pre positioned equipment, either on ships already pre positioned in the ocean or at supply dumps located in friendly nations. This way the US doesn't need to ship equipment from the US to a conflict, the equipment is already in place (or almost in place) and they just need to bring the troops to the equipment.

Amidia- wrote:I have come up with the basic permutation for an Amidian rifle platoon but have no real idea what to do for special weapons in a squad that replaces LMGs with just a lot I IARs with bigger magazines, also not a 100% on keeping around a platoon guide but I like having spare leaders to reduce the load on command and control.

Platoon Troop (1 Officer and 5 enlisted)
Platoon Commander (OF-1) IAR, GL
Platoon Sergeant (OR-5) IAR, GL
Platoon Guide (OR-4) IAR, GL
Radioman (OR-1) IAR
Mortarman (OR-3) IAR
Assistant Mortarman(OR-1) IAR
Combat Medic (OR-1) IAR**
Forward Observer (OR-1) IAR**
Forward Observer Radioman (OR-1) IAR**

Rifle squad (10 Enlisted)
Squad Leader (OR-4) IAR, GL
Deputy Squad Leader (OR-3) IAR, GL
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets
Rifleman (OR-1) IAR, Disposable Rockets


A platoon probably doesn't need a dedicated forward observer, that is probably a company or battalion asset depending on how much artillery you have and how you control the fire missions for artillery. For the mortars in the platoon your mortar men and squad leader can control the lay of fire fine.

As for special weapons, something heavier than a disposable rocket (what type) for explosive throwing. RPG-7, Carl Gustaf, SMAW, etc. are all options to think about. You could also think about a medium/universal MG, potentially something like the M240 or MG3. you could also just not have any special weapons in the platoon outside of the mortar, it isn't a requirement.
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Amidia-
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Founded: Jan 16, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Amidia- » Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:30 pm

the asterisks are attached from higher, I should have specified. I was going to issue rockets from LAWs if there shouldn't be tanks all the way up to AT12s for actually killing tanks.

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Spirit of Hope
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Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:35 pm

Amidia- wrote:the asterisks are attached from higher, I should have specified. I was going to issue rockets from LAWs if there shouldn't be tanks all the way up to AT12s for actually killing tanks.


Every platoon shouldn't have a forward observer, maybe every company could get one attached to them, the level of guns that a forward observer is directing are going to impact a larger scope than a platoon can really exploit.

Every platoon doesn't need a medic, but that isn't as big a deal. I have medics at the platoon level as well.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

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Dayganistan
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Postby Dayganistan » Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:27 pm

Squad composition made in Arma because I can't draw.

This would be an armoured infantry squad, as would belong to an armoured brigade. The distinction between armoured and mechanized infantry in my armed forces is primarily that armoured use tracked IFVs and are attached to armoured brigades, mechanized have wheeled IFVs and have their own mech infantry brigades. Light infantry and airborne would replace the vehicle crew with an MG3 team.

Sig 550 series rifles were adopted in the early 2000s. They're likely to be phased out and replaced with an AR-15 derived design during the 2020s.

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Countesia
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Postby Countesia » Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:07 pm

Back again with another question, one i've done a bit of research for but found nothing that really answers my questions. Mostly trying to sound realistic here.

How are smaller units like Brigades and Battalions typically numbered?

For example, if i have an army of 1,000,000 and I decide my battalions are on average 5000 soldiers strong. Am i looking like an idiot trying to have a "170th Brigade" or a "405st Battalion"

What i've been doing, trying to not sound ridiculous, is anything smaller than a brigade the numbers start over. For example, A soldier from Countesia might be designated as being from "67th Brigade, 2nd Battalion, 1st Company, 1st Platoon" Is this a good way to go about it, or am i overcomplicating things?

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Kassaran
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kassaran » Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:56 pm

Countesia wrote:Back again with another question, one i've done a bit of research for but found nothing that really answers my questions. Mostly trying to sound realistic here.

How are smaller units like Brigades and Battalions typically numbered?

For example, if i have an army of 1,000,000 and I decide my battalions are on average 5000 soldiers strong. Am i looking like an idiot trying to have a "170th Brigade" or a "405st Battalion"

What i've been doing, trying to not sound ridiculous, is anything smaller than a brigade the numbers start over. For example, A soldier from Countesia might be designated as being from "67th Brigade, 2nd Battalion, 1st Company, 1st Platoon" Is this a good way to go about it, or am i overcomplicating things?

Generally they're numbered according to whatever organization system works best.
I will say that your battalions are pretty massive, given that companies are generally 100-200 people apiece.

For me, I have units labelled on a Corps, Division - Brigade level with Battalions and Companies being paired together before it to denote their specific role.

The 1st Corps has the 11th Infantry Division which has the 1-11th or First of the Eleventh Mountain Combat Brigade, which contains the 1st Mountain Infantry Battalion and it's five companies.

This fictional unit, taking the whole designation in stride, appears as A/1 1-11th, or Alpha Company, First Battalion, First of the Eleventh Infantry Brigade.
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Spirit of Hope
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Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:17 pm

Countesia wrote:Back again with another question, one i've done a bit of research for but found nothing that really answers my questions. Mostly trying to sound realistic here.

How are smaller units like Brigades and Battalions typically numbered?

For example, if i have an army of 1,000,000 and I decide my battalions are on average 5000 soldiers strong. Am i looking like an idiot trying to have a "170th Brigade" or a "405st Battalion"

What i've been doing, trying to not sound ridiculous, is anything smaller than a brigade the numbers start over. For example, A soldier from Countesia might be designated as being from "67th Brigade, 2nd Battalion, 1st Company, 1st Platoon" Is this a good way to go about it, or am i overcomplicating things?


Very generally platoons, companies, and battalions are numbered with regards to their higher unit. So yes: "67th Brigade, 2nd Battalion, 1st Company, 1st Platoon," is perfectly acceptable. Sometimes the brigade/regiment to battalion relationship will be shortened to something like "2/67," i.e. the 2nd Battalion of the 67th Brigade.

Though you might use/see letters for companies: "67th Brigade, 2nd Battalion, Alpha Company, 1st Platoon."

That said for specialty battalions that don't belong to brigades you might start seeing some weird numberings. Like the 440th Signals Battalion. That said it wouldn't be to insane to have all of your battalions of a certain type follow one numbering scheme, which is why you get things like the 555th Parachute Infantry Battalion.
Fact Book.
Helpful hints on combat vehicle terminology.

Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

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Countesia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 766
Founded: Oct 10, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Countesia » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:44 pm

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Very generally platoons, companies, and battalions are numbered with regards to their higher unit. So yes: "67th Brigade, 2nd Battalion, 1st Company, 1st Platoon," is perfectly acceptable. Sometimes the brigade/regiment to battalion relationship will be shortened to something like "2/67," i.e. the 2nd Battalion of the 67th Brigade.

Though you might use/see letters for companies: "67th Brigade, 2nd Battalion, Alpha Company, 1st Platoon."

That said for specialty battalions that don't belong to brigades you might start seeing some weird numberings. Like the 440th Signals Battalion. That said it wouldn't be to insane to have all of your battalions of a certain type follow one numbering scheme, which is why you get things like the 555th Parachute Infantry Battalion.


Kassaran wrote:Generally they're numbered according to whatever organization system works best.
I will say that your battalions are pretty massive, given that companies are generally 100-200 people apiece.

For me, I have units labelled on a Corps, Division - Brigade level with Battalions and Companies being paired together before it to denote their specific role.

The 1st Corps has the 11th Infantry Division which has the 1-11th or First of the Eleventh Mountain Combat Brigade, which contains the 1st Mountain Infantry Battalion and it's five companies.

This fictional unit, taking the whole designation in stride, appears as A/1 1-11th, or Alpha Company, First Battalion, First of the Eleventh Infantry Brigade.


Thank you both for your answers. They were incredibly helpful :hug:

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