Clearly it does. That's why they did it, and why our institutions buckled in the face of the violence and enacted major changes. That's why people like me excused it.
And thus we taught everyone that violence works to enact political change.
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by Galloism » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:40 am
by Page » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:47 am
by Galloism » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:52 am
Page wrote:Galloism wrote:
Clearly it does. That's why they did it, and why our institutions buckled in the face of the violence and enacted major changes. That's why people like me excused it.
And thus we taught everyone that violence works to enact political change.
Does the state itself not teach this lesson by existing? What is law but someone's will + the threat of violence to enforce it?
by Nakena » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:58 am
by Cannot think of a name » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:01 pm
Celritannia wrote:Galloism wrote:Oh there is, but they are both part of an escalating pattern of violence. They both meet the definition of sedition, but one of sedition with secessionist underpinnings, while the other is sedition and attempted coup.
Naturally, an attempted coup is a worse form of sedition than just sedition with secessionist underpinnings.
This extreme centrist view point is dangerous.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:30 pm
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:32 pm
Cannot think of a name wrote:Celritannia wrote:
This extreme centrist view point is dangerous.
It is in fact how racist power structures have remained in place for so long. People wearing sheets and burning crosses could never have enough influence over society without polite society making rational excuses for them.
Imagine the frustration of people struggling for their civil rights over the last year, being shot with rubber bullets and real bullets, tear gases and beaten and having in real time to constantly denounce the violence often not even enacted by them. Meanwhile when a racist drives his car into their demonstration the President of the United States literally does a “both sides.” It’s not mistake that he wasn’t the only one to use his car as a weapon against civil rights protestors, and not only have they avoided jail time but Republican legislators have gone so far to make the act legal.
But those fighting for their civil rights have to repudiate violence while protesting 400 years of violence against them. And worse, they have, repeatedly. But like ED 209, the enlightened centrist empowering structural racism demands they comply.
Protestors negotiate a space to protest with the police but are unable to prevent all crime, so after two people do something unpardonable, the people who have been holding civic discussions, providing medical and food aid, and creating art are met with rubber bullets, tear gas, and batons. They spend the rest of the summer literally being snatched off the streets in unmarked vans by unidentified agents.
ED 209 demands they condemn the violence again.
Just a year or two earlier right wing militias aim weapons and back police off to protect a rich mans ability to abuse a public space. To protest what is essentially minimal consequences those same militias take over a federal park facility and suffer no consequences.
by Genivaria » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:33 pm
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Yes it is, like people who think Antifa and the Atomwaffen division are equivalent. I know you are a conservative but I'm sure you can see the difference between guys who break windows and burn garbage cans and a neo nazi terror cell.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:50 pm
Genivaria wrote:Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Yes it is, like people who think Antifa and the Atomwaffen division are equivalent. I know you are a conservative but I'm sure you can see the difference between guys who break windows and burn garbage cans and a neo nazi terror cell.
Indeed, such behavior makes them closer to soccer hooligans to be honest.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:51 pm
by Des-Bal » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:51 pm
Galloism wrote:Again, you're missing the bigger picture about the problem of teaching the general public that violence works to get the political results you want.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Adamede » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:54 pm
Celritannia wrote:Galloism wrote:Again, you're missing the bigger picture about the problem of teaching the general public that violence works to get the political results you want.
Violence does not work.
But comparing CHAZ to Capitol Hill is stupid.
And this is the last I shall speak on the matter with you.
by Des-Bal » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:11 pm
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Considering how things went, I think the trump mob would have run straight into death anyways.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:13 pm
by Vassenor » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:19 pm
by Galloism » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:26 pm
by Kowani » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:30 pm
Galloism wrote:Vassenor wrote:
So what political results did the 7% of BLM protests that were violent achieve?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsole ... 26f0ddd578
by Vassenor » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:33 pm
Kowani wrote:
Tbf, you’d have to prove that all of those places did it because of the violence, and not the 93% of other protests that were peaceful
by Cannot think of a name » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:33 pm
Kowani wrote:
Tbf, you’d have to prove that all of those places did it because of the violence, and not the 93% of other protests that were peaceful
by Senkaku » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:40 pm
by Celritannia » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:02 pm
My DeviantArt Obey When you annoy a Celritannian U W0T M8?
| Citizen of Earth, Commonwealthian, European, British, Yorkshireman. Atheist, Environmentalist |
by Des-Bal » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:03 pm
Cannot think of a name wrote:Which would be a difficult task, since many of those reforms were done in conversation with organizational members who frequently denounced violence at the time.
Senkaku wrote:So what, then? Violence does work to enact political change and has throughout all of human history, are we supposed to somehow remove this timeless and universal truth from people's minds now that they've already been made aware of it?
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Des-Bal » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:06 pm
Celritannia wrote:
In history? Sure.
But now? Well, look at all the arrests at capitol hill.
I do know how comparisons work, but in this context, it does not.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Cannot think of a name » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:08 pm
Des-Bal wrote:Cannot think of a name wrote:Which would be a difficult task, since many of those reforms were done in conversation with organizational members who frequently denounced violence at the time.
Who benefitted from the fact that the violence made some form of action necessary regardless of whether or not they personally endorsed it. Whether it was mass murder or institutional change somebody was going to do something and that was a handy foot in the door.
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