Muslims and Christians, how can we improve relations?

[Adamede]

The two religions are too diametrically opposed for there to ever be total peace between the two.

No they aren't. They are two distant brethen from the same source.

Christians are considered people of the Book.

Hasn’t stopped the either the Muslims or the Christians from slaughtering each other.

[Vetalia]

Secularization and western values for both sides, to be honest. Teach things like human rights, patriotic values, and tolerance, independent of religion. Encourage religious mixing in schools and basically treat everyone as an equal part of society, a society and identity that belongs to and genuinely accepted by everyone.

Now I'm not religious anymore, but in particular, I saw that the best way to increase tolerance is to have friends outside of your own group. Because of that, I always actively criticized Islam's order of "do not closely befriend infidels" and try to find loopholes or twist the Quranic words in question to produce a different meaning. And had I became the valedictorian of my highschool (which sadly didn't happen), I planned to give a speech endorsing an inter-religious relationship between two of my close friends in front of everyone (of course without naming names) including their parents, pointing out that the Islamist-backed leader of the opposition has a Muslim father and a Christian mother.

This is sound advice.

[Resilient Acceleration]

But that proves my point, you're an outsider who doesn't understand the depth of faith and theology in Christianity and Islam. Absolute and unequivocal truth regarding God and His revelation to humanity are essential to the Abrahamic revealed religions...we both believe our faith is absolutely, unequivocally true and there is no room for dissension on the tenets of our respective faiths. I can't walk back my faith in the Resurrection of Christ as the Son of God and the Holy Trinity any more than a Muslim can deny the divine revelation granted to Muhammad or their concept of absolute montheism worshipping the One God.

If we admit that these are fundamental differences between us, we can improve our relations in the areas we do agree.

Very much this.

And this is very true for a lot if not the majority of moslems and the culture that comes with it. Thats why many westerners fail to understand Islam, because they see it simply as something that can be easily "reformed" or secularized. The idea of such absolute belief is alien to them.

But they do not understand how deep running this can be and how much, for this reason, a barrier it can form at some point. Theres a barrier of both understanding and believing in fundamentally different truths and worldviews as well.

And I think that includes many posters here in this thread too.

Doesn't mean it cannot be reformed. My country's secularism is basically dependent on religious orders like Nahdlatul 'Ulama, a mass organization with 90 million members established in 1912 to specifically combat the influence of radical Wahabbi clerics from Arabia. They basically try to reinterpret Islam, which has syncreticized with the local culture anyways as it genuinely spread peacefully here, to conform to national values as much as possible. Which is probably why, facing dire Islamist opposition, the incumbent president quickly appointed the boss of the organization as his vice president, giving him legitimacy to reverse uno card and basically brand Islamist hardliners as "heretic".

[Adamede]

End sectarianism. Our personal beliefs do not change the fact that many times both Muslims and Christians are in the same boat in terms of socioeconomic status.

Stop violence between the working class. No more brother wars.

“Brother wars”

I mainly hear his term from altright white nationalists. Regardless, it’s bullshit. Everyone on earth is human, but only a select few are my family.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

Secularization and western values for both sides, to be honest. Teach things like human rights, patriotic values, and tolerance, independent of religion. Encourage religious mixing in schools and basically treat everyone as an equal part of society, a society and identity that belongs to and genuinely accepted by everyone.

Now I'm not religious anymore, but in particular, I saw that the best way to increase tolerance is to have friends outside of your own group. Because of that, I always actively criticized Islam's order of "do not closely befriend infidels" and try to find loopholes or twist the Quranic words in question to produce a different meaning. And had I became the valedictorian of my highschool (which sadly didn't happen), I planned to give a speech endorsing an inter-religious relationship between two of my close friends in front of everyone (of course without naming names) including their parents, pointing out that the Islamist-backed leader of the opposition has a Muslim father and a Christian mother.

Religious people unfortunately perceive this as a blow against religious freedom.

[Salus Maior]

The two religions are too diametrically opposed for there to ever be total peace between the two.

No they aren't. They are two distant brethen from the same source.

Christians are considered people of the Book.

The book which also details how Christians should be treated as inferiors to Muslims.

I don't really give a crap about Islamic patronizing towards other religions.

[San Kalungsod Saludong]

Learn some convivencia! Like what happened in Medieval Spain and Sicily.

Muslims should learn Latin or Greek and Christians some Arabic. Let Christians have multiple wives or husbands and let Muslims drink wine and eat pork.

[Adamede]

Learn some convivencia! Like what happened in Medieval Spain and Sicily.

Muslims should lear Latin or Greek and Christians some Arabic. Let Christians have multiple wives or husbands and let Muslims drink wine and eat pork.

How the hell is any of that going to push for peaceful coexistence between Muslims and Christians?

[Rijk van Afrika]

Learn some convivencia! Like what happened in Medieval Spain and Sicily.

Muslims should lear Latin or Greek and Christians some Arabic. Let Christians have multiple wives or husbands and let Muslims drink wine and eat pork.

How the hell is any of that going to push for peaceful coexistence between Muslims and Christians?

I won't because Muslims and Christians cannot coexist peacefully.

[Adamede]

How the hell is any of that going to push for peaceful coexistence between Muslims and Christians?

I won't because Muslims and Christians cannot coexist peacefully.

I doubt that.

[San Kalungsod Saludong]

Learn some convivencia! Like what happened in Medieval Spain and Sicily.

Muslims should lear Latin or Greek and Christians some Arabic. Let Christians have multiple wives or husbands and let Muslims drink wine and eat pork.

How the hell is any of that going to push for peaceful coexistence between Muslims and Christians?

It existed before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Convivencia

The Christian French-Norman King of Sicily had Arabs make his Almanac called the Tabula Rogeriana.

In Spain, the Alhambra has statues of animals and humans since even though depictions of creatures are banned in Islam the Emir, Mohammed ben Al-Ahmar employed Christians to build that in the Alhambra.

[-Astoria-]

How the hell is any of that going to push for peaceful coexistence between Muslims and Christians?

I won't because Muslims and Christians cannot coexist peacefully.

X.

[Adamede]

How the hell is any of that going to push for peaceful coexistence between Muslims and Christians?

It existed before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Convivencia

The Christian French-Norman King of Sicily had Arabs make his Almanac called the Tabula Rogeriana.

In Spain, the Alhambra has statues of animals and humans since even though depictions of creatures are banned in Islam the Emir, Mohammed ben Al-Ahmar employed Christians to build that in the Alhambra.

That’s not what I’m fucking talking about dude.

[San Kalungsod Saludong]

It existed before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Convivencia

The Christian French-Norman King of Sicily had Arabs make his Almanac called the Tabula Rogeriana.

In Spain, the Alhambra has statues of animals and humans since even though depictions of creatures are banned in Islam the Emir, Mohammed ben Al-Ahmar employed Christians to build that in the Alhambra.

That’s not what I’m fucking talking about dude.

I'm just saying co-existence is not impossible.

[Adamede]

That’s not what I’m fucking talking about dude.

And that’s not what I fucking asked.

If Muslims wanted to live like Christians, and Christians wanted to live like Muslims, they’d convert to Islam or Christianity.

Fact is they don’t want to be either one of the groups, so you need to have them behave the same way.
I'm just saying co-existence is not impossible.

[Rijk van Afrika]

That’s not what I’m fucking talking about dude.

I'm just saying co-existence is not impossible.

It is. Citation: Europe today

[Adamede]

I'm just saying co-existence is not impossible.

It is. Citation: Europe today

What specifically?

[Rijk van Afrika]

It is. Citation: Europe today

What specifically?

The fact that Islamic mosques supported by Saudi extremists are trying to push for sharia law in European lands.

No thank you. I am 1/10th German and I don't want my fatherland to be destroyed like that

[The Alma Mater]

Muslims need to take more visible action to weed out rotten apples instead of seeming to support them.
Christians need to selfreflect and admit they have been quite shitty in the past.

That would be step 1.

[Adamede]

What specifically?

The fact that Islamic mosques supported by Saudi extremists are trying to push for sharia law in European lands.

No thank you. I am 1/10th German and I don't want my fatherland to be destroyed like that

This is fucking ridiculous.

By now there’s only two possibilities for you; either you’re not serious about this, or you are. And frankly I’ve wasted too much of my time either way.

[Adamede]

Muslims need to take more visible action to weed out rotten apples instead of seeming to support them.
Christians need to selfreflect and admit they have been quite shitty in the past.

That would be step 1.

I don’t think most Christians deny that.

[Rijk van Afrika]

The fact that Islamic mosques supported by Saudi extremists are trying to push for sharia law in European lands.

No thank you. I am 1/10th German and I don't want my fatherland to be destroyed like that

This is fucking ridiculous.

By now there’s only two possibilities for you; either you’re not serious about this, or you are. And frankly I’ve wasted too much of my time either way.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ambassador

[Plzen]

It is. Citation: Europe today

I don't think you quite get how a logical proof works. Your argument is not that Muslims and Christians don't coexist. Your argument is that it is not possible for Muslims and Christians to coexist. Such a statement cannot be demonstrated with a single counterexample.

There are no spoons on my dinner table, and therefore spoons don't exist. Utter nonsense.

---

Muslims need to take more visible action to weed out rotten apples instead of seeming to support them.

I don't know what the situation is like in the world as a whole, but I know for a fact that in the Netherlands prominent Muslim religious organisers have openly stated on-air that radicalism is a serious problem, and some of their clergy have been injured defending their institutions from physical assaults by radical Islamicists.

What more can you ask for? That's more than what some Reformed Christian churches do about nutcases in their ranks.

[Adamede]

This is fucking ridiculous.

By now there’s only two possibilities for you; either you’re not serious about this, or you are. And frankly I’ve wasted too much of my time either way.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ambassador

That’s not what I’m fucking talking about.

[The Alma Mater]

Muslims need to take more visible action to weed out rotten apples instead of seeming to support them.

I don't know what the situation is like in the world as a whole, but I know for a fact that in the Netherlands prominent Muslim religious organisers have openly stated on-air that radicalism is a serious problem, and some of their clergy have been injured defending their institutions from physical assaults by radical Islamicists.

What more can you ask for? That's more than what some Reformed Christian churches do about nutcases in their ranks.

What three people say does not matter if thousands are seen to support a different message.
It indeed is ironically reversed in many christian circles - thousands of believers denounce misdeeds while the clergy remains silent; while with muslims it is the clergy speaking up but the masses yelling louder.