2020 US General Election Thread XI: Is It Over Yet?

[Plzen]

BERNIE WOULD HAVE WON AND I WILL DIE MAD :P

He wouldn't have.

Picked the same terrible campaign team that lost in 2016 nd didn't get enough minority support.

If I remember the Jacobin's August analysis correctly, Sanders did very well among Latino communities and somewhat well in working-class white neighbourhoods (you know, the kind that delivered Trump his electoral victory in 2016) in the Democratic primaries.

Of course one can't generalise from a primary fought against Biden to a Presidential election fought against Trump, but it does suggest that Sanders' reformist agenda wasn't completely unappealing to people outside of the traditional urban-youth progressive class.

It's hard to say anything definitive about counterfactuals, of course, but it's not out of the question that Sanders would've done better than Biden had he gone to the general instead of Biden.

[Valrifell]

Trump's lead in GA is now at 0.8%, but with 2% remaining, can it flip? I have no idea about the oustanding ballot situation there or whatnot.

The remaining ballots are from bluer areas of the state, he could flip it but it depends on his margins.

[Senkaku]

I don't want to know what's worse than Trump, but please tell me ahead of time so I can prepare my flight back home. Thanks.

Well lets say Trump successfully convinces his base that the election is stolen and they must raise up arms to push back. Gets the ball rolling and America plunges into more intense and pervasive political violence that quickly spirals out of control into a civil war at worst or something like the Years of Lead at best. I figure that would be worse than granting immunity to him.

You think letting him get away with all manner of crimes is okay because otherwise he would try to use violence to resist being held accountable...?

That's not a reason to let him off the hook, that's an even better reason to prosecute.

[Valrifell]

So is anyone else worried about why Nevada decided to delay vote counting?

Suspense.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

So is anyone else worried about why Nevada decided to delay vote counting?

I am a little, yes.

[Dresderstan]

AZ comin in 'ot

Have they started counting yet?

Yep.

[Sanghyeok]

+1.

It's a bad idea in the long run. The impunity would grant them undeserved legitimacy in the eyes of many, which would help to keep their political movement alive. And with that same impunity, his family could try to follow Keiko Fujimori's footsteps, and nobody wants that.

And speaking from the Argentine experience...

On the one hand, we have Videla, who got convicted for crimes against humanity and died sitting on his toilet in prison. Whatever political movement he could have inspired died with him, forever delegitimized by the fact that he was unequivocally, in the eyes of our most fundamental laws, an absolute piece of shit who was proven wrong about every justification he tried to use for his politics and policies in a court of law.

On the other hand, you have Menem, who was able to keep running for office with far more success than he deserved because none of the criminal cases against him went anywhere. And by the time he finally started to get convicted for anything, it was too late. Now the most likely thing is that he will die from old age while still holding a seat in the Senate.

I was surprised to not understand who Fujimori was, then I found out she was from Peru.

[Bombadil]

I hope it filps. I’m guessing ossof lost?

When it comes to GA, no one is certain if Biden will flip it. It’s close and not a whole lot of votes left to count.

Georgia will come through.. I've been super-vibing it with blue waves of energy for ages.

[Cultural Posadism]

You can walk and chew gum on this stuff. It's worth the effort. After all, that's how the right beat the left in the past couple of decades: they managed to "steal" the working class from the left despite that same working class not actually seeing eye-to-eye with them in terms of material reality and policy.

But I worry that they have become too invested in voting against their own material interests. Even if Trump loses, will it really help us to spend time and effort trying to convince them? Or will they remain focused on their cultural traditionalism? How can we tell them that progressive causes are indeed what would benefit them? Will they listen? Will they even be willing to join after, or will they remain centrist?

Those are valid worries, and I can't guarantee that you'd be proven wrong.

There are too many questions there, and I think it is better to focus on what we as leftists can do well- creating a next generation that can finally demand real change, whether it be through electoralism or direct action.

Hopefully both at once, but yes.

[Jerzylvania]

A word to Donald Trump.

ca·thar·sis
/kəˈTHärsəs/

noun: catharsis; plural noun: catharses

1.
the process of releasing, and thereby providing relief from, strong or repressed emotions.
"music is a means of catharsis for them"

Similar:
purgation
purification
cleansing
release
relief
emotional release
freeing
deliverance
exorcism
ridding
abreaction

[Thermodolia]

Trumps lead is shrinking in georgia. We are looking at a Michigan situation

Wast MI called for Biden already?

Yup. GA looks like it could be next.

Also it’s highly likely that both senate seats will be going to a runoff in January

[The Marlborough]

Very Kantian of you.

I have my moments now and then-- do you really think there's a convincing case that I'm wrong, though?

If it ends a war or prevents one, then yes it would be the wrong thing to do. It's why a number of dictators are granted immunity on the condition of exile. I think exile for Trump could also be part of such a deal.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It's a bad idea in the long run. The impunity would grant them undeserved legitimacy in the eyes of many, which would help to keep their political movement alive. And with that same impunity, his family could try to follow Keiko Fujimori's footsteps, and nobody wants that.

And speaking from the Argentine experience...

On the one hand, we have Videla, who got convicted for crimes against humanity and died sitting on his toilet in prison. Whatever political movement he could have inspired died with him, forever delegitimized by the fact that he was unequivocally, in the eyes of our most fundamental laws, an absolute piece of shit who was proven wrong about every justification he tried to use for his politics and policies in a court of law.

On the other hand, you have Menem, who was able to keep running for office with far more success than he deserved because none of the criminal cases against him went anywhere. And by the time he finally started to get convicted for anything, it was too late. Now the most likely thing is that he will die from old age while still holding a seat in the Senate.

I was surprised to not understand who Fujimori was, then I found out she was from Peru.

He. Alberto Fujimori.

[Bombadil]

So is anyone else worried about why Nevada decided to delay vote counting?

No, it will be irrelevant.

[New haven america]

He wouldn't have.

Picked the same terrible campaign team that lost in 2016 nd didn't get enough minority support.

If I remember the Jacobin's August analysis correctly, Sanders did very well among Latino communities and somewhat well in working-class white neighbourhoods (you know, the kind that delivered Trump his electoral victory in 2016) in the Democratic primaries.

Of course one can't generalise from a primary fought against Biden to a Presidential election fought against Trump, but it does suggest that Sanders' reformist agenda wasn't completely unappealing to people outside of the traditional urban-youth progressive class.

But he completely lost the black community and had a campaign team that spent most of their time attacking other candidates on Twitter instead of, y'know, campaigning.

[Andsed]

When it comes to GA, no one is certain if Biden will flip it. It’s close and not a whole lot of votes left to count.

Georgia will come through.. I've been super-vibing it with blue waves of energy for ages.

As I have proposed before, voodoo my dudes. Voodoo is the way.

[Aeritai]

Here is a question: Lets say the best way to get Trump to concede instead of plunging the US into turmoil is to offer him and his family immunity, both federal and state level. Is that a deal people are willing to make?

Nope. No immunity for him or his family.

What about Barron? As far as I'm concerned he didn't do anything wrong.

[The Marlborough]

Well lets say Trump successfully convinces his base that the election is stolen and they must raise up arms to push back. Gets the ball rolling and America plunges into more intense and pervasive political violence that quickly spirals out of control into a civil war at worst or something like the Years of Lead at best. I figure that would be worse than granting immunity to him.

You think letting him get away with all manner of crimes is okay because otherwise he would try to use violence to resist being held accountable...?

That's not a reason to let him off the hook, that's an even better reason to prosecute.

If he was just one man with a handful of dedicated followers, I would agree. But he's not.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

When it comes to GA, no one is certain if Biden will flip it. It’s close and not a whole lot of votes left to count.

Georgia will come through.. I've been super-vibing it with blue waves of energy for ages.

May your serious vibing session pan out.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Nope. No immunity for him or his family.

What about Barron? As far as I'm concerned he didn't do anything wrong.

I stated several posts ago that all of them except the kid. He’s a minor.

[Senkaku]

I have my moments now and then-- do you really think there's a convincing case that I'm wrong, though?

If it ends a war or prevents one, then yes it would be the wrong thing to do. It's why a number of dictators are granted immunity on the condition of exile. I think exile for Trump could also be part of such a deal.

What guarantee would there be that he wouldn't continue meddling and stirring up chaos from his safe haven in Moscow or Riyadh or wherever? You don't negotiate with terrorists, this is day one stuff.

[Thermodolia]

Trumps lead is shrinking in georgia. We are looking at a Michigan situation

I hope it filps. I’m guessing ossof lost?

Not yet. The lead is close but Perdue might not get the required 50%+1

[Dresderstan]

I hope it filps. I’m guessing ossof lost?

Not yet. The lead is close but Perdue might not get the required 50%+1

So we could see both Georgia Senate elections in January?

[Kowani]

AZ RESULTS

[Cannot think of a name]

When it comes to GA, no one is certain if Biden will flip it. It’s close and not a whole lot of votes left to count.

Georgia will come through.. I've been super-vibing it with blue waves of energy for ages.

A bunch of the film industry moved to the Atlanta area. It's grips and riggers mostly who are more conservative, but not so conservative that they'd like Trump.

This is my completely unscientific completely sloppy reasoning that Atlanta is gonna make it over the hump.