by Cordel One » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:55 pm
by Kowani » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:56 pm
by San Lumen » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:02 pm
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:03 pm
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:04 pm
San Lumen wrote:As I explained to you. It was impossible to have abolished slavery in 1787. The southern states would have never gone for it. They would have walked out of the convention.
Jefferson wanted to admonish slavery in the Declaration of Independence but was persuaded not to by Adams and Franklin. The exact reasons for its removal are unknown.
The same reason they didn;t induce women's suffrage. it was not a widely held belief at the time nor was it something on many peoples radar.
The fact that we got the three fifths compromise is feat. It doesn't make what they did right but it was the best they could come up with at the time and not blow up the convention. That clause was repealed by the 14th amendment.
by Eukaryotic Cells » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:05 pm
by Parxland » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:06 pm
by San Lumen » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:06 pm
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:San Lumen wrote:As I explained to you. It was impossible to have abolished slavery in 1787. The southern states would have never gone for it. They would have walked out of the convention.
Jefferson wanted to admonish slavery in the Declaration of Independence but was persuaded not to by Adams and Franklin. The exact reasons for its removal are unknown.
The same reason they didn;t induce women's suffrage. it was not a widely held belief at the time nor was it something on many peoples radar.
The fact that we got the three fifths compromise is feat. It doesn't make what they did right but it was the best they could come up with at the time and not blow up the convention. That clause was repealed by the 14th amendment.
"Nows not a good time. Maybe later we can fight for rights" a common refrain from those who won't stand up.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:06 pm
San Lumen wrote:As I explained to you. It was impossible to have abolished slavery in 1787. The southern states would have never gone for it. They would have walked out of the convention.
Jefferson wanted to admonish slavery in the Declaration of Independence but was persuaded not to by Adams and Franklin. The exact reasons for its removal are unknown.
The same reason they didn;t induce women's suffrage. it was not a widely held belief at the time nor was it something on many peoples radar.
The fact that we got the three fifths compromise is feat. It doesn't make what they did right but it was the best they could come up with at the time and not blow up the convention. That clause was repealed by the 14th amendment.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Nilokeras » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:07 pm
by Neanderthaland » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:08 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:San Lumen wrote:As I explained to you. It was impossible to have abolished slavery in 1787. The southern states would have never gone for it. They would have walked out of the convention.
Jefferson wanted to admonish slavery in the Declaration of Independence but was persuaded not to by Adams and Franklin. The exact reasons for its removal are unknown.
The same reason they didn;t induce women's suffrage. it was not a widely held belief at the time nor was it something on many peoples radar.
The fact that we got the three fifths compromise is feat. It doesn't make what they did right but it was the best they could come up with at the time and not blow up the convention. That clause was repealed by the 14th amendment.
I must point out that slavery abolition wasn’t unheard of at the time, Lumen. Heck, Portugal abolished slavery there and its Indian colonies in 1761.
by Monsone » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:08 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:09 pm
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Eukaryotic Cells » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:10 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:San Lumen wrote:As I explained to you. It was impossible to have abolished slavery in 1787. The southern states would have never gone for it. They would have walked out of the convention.
Jefferson wanted to admonish slavery in the Declaration of Independence but was persuaded not to by Adams and Franklin. The exact reasons for its removal are unknown.
The same reason they didn;t induce women's suffrage. it was not a widely held belief at the time nor was it something on many peoples radar.
The fact that we got the three fifths compromise is feat. It doesn't make what they did right but it was the best they could come up with at the time and not blow up the convention. That clause was repealed by the 14th amendment.
I must point out that slavery abolition wasn’t unheard of at the time, Lumen. Heck, Portugal abolished slavery there and its Indian colonies in 1761.
by San Lumen » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:11 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:San Lumen wrote:As I explained to you. It was impossible to have abolished slavery in 1787. The southern states would have never gone for it. They would have walked out of the convention.
Jefferson wanted to admonish slavery in the Declaration of Independence but was persuaded not to by Adams and Franklin. The exact reasons for its removal are unknown.
The same reason they didn;t induce women's suffrage. it was not a widely held belief at the time nor was it something on many peoples radar.
The fact that we got the three fifths compromise is feat. It doesn't make what they did right but it was the best they could come up with at the time and not blow up the convention. That clause was repealed by the 14th amendment.
I must point out that slavery abolition wasn’t unheard of at the time, Lumen. Heck, Portugal abolished slavery there and its Indian colonies in 1761.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:13 pm
Eukaryotic Cells wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I must point out that slavery abolition wasn’t unheard of at the time, Lumen. Heck, Portugal abolished slavery there and its Indian colonies in 1761.
True, although the US wasn't there yet. They had a huge slave-owning planter class and many people saw little issue with enslaving people of African descent.
Economic considerations drive many decisions. For example, the Japanese-Americans living in Hawaii were not interned on a wide scale, mainly because they formed an important part of the labor market there.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Kowani » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:13 pm
laughs in Benjamin FranklinMonsone wrote:The Founding Father's held "conventional" and "mainstream" views for their time. Sadly those views normalized slavery, sexism, bigotry, racism, etc. But that was the typical viewpoint held by many. Were there abolitionists back in the late 18th century? Yes. Were there feminists? Yes. But they were a small minority that held little power.
Yet the main reason that slavery wasn't abolished was for economic reasons. Many founding fathers and many powerful supporters of the revolution owned slaves, there was no reason to give up economically beneficial free labor. Add in the fact that is wasn't really in their mindset to necessarily get rid of slavery along with a lack of incentives to do so, and you have the perfect storm to defer the act 15 presidents down the line
by The Two Jerseys » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:13 pm
by Eukaryotic Cells » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:18 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Eukaryotic Cells wrote:True, although the US wasn't there yet. They had a huge slave-owning planter class and many people saw little issue with enslaving people of African descent.
Economic considerations drive many decisions. For example, the Japanese-Americans living in Hawaii were not interned on a wide scale, mainly because they formed an important part of the labor market there.
Case by case basis, yes. I understand that every country had its idiosyncrasies. But it wasn’t an unheard of thing is what I mean.
by Cannot think of a name » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:22 pm
Parxland wrote:The First post is half-assed and ill-thought. The poster should be ashamed to have demonstrate so little intelligence with their text. I strongly encourage the poster to strengthen their empathy before revisiting this subject, since they're liable to get punched in the face if they dare to air this 'opinion' in real life to the wrong party.
by Rusozak » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:24 pm
by Aclion » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:25 pm
more importantly it requires looking at how the slave revolt in Haiti went for the whitesKowani wrote:laughs in Benjamin FranklinMonsone wrote:The Founding Father's held "conventional" and "mainstream" views for their time. Sadly those views normalized slavery, sexism, bigotry, racism, etc. But that was the typical viewpoint held by many. Were there abolitionists back in the late 18th century? Yes. Were there feminists? Yes. But they were a small minority that held little power.Yet the main reason that slavery wasn't abolished was for economic reasons. Many founding fathers and many powerful supporters of the revolution owned slaves, there was no reason to give up economically beneficial free labor. Add in the fact that is wasn't really in their mindset to necessarily get rid of slavery along with a lack of incentives to do so, and you have the perfect storm to defer the act 15 presidents down the line
This is ironically, only half true. Slavery was only economically beneficial to the landed classes who owned slaves (and northern whites who made the clothes I guess). But poor southern whites? No, slavery was economically harmful to them-yet they were some of its most fervent supporters.
Reconciling this contradiction requires an understanding of the ideology of white supremacy that slavery espoused.
by Royal Frankia » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:25 pm
Cordel One wrote:Hopefully this will contain my debate with San Lumen to one thread.
As much as Americans love to glorify the freedoms the Founding Fathers gave them with the Constitution, it's important to remember not everyone was free to enjoy these new liberties. Not only were women denied the right to vote, slavery remained a legal institution within the United States. Why did the founders allow slavery to remain? Was it apathy, was it the inability to do so, or was it white supremacy?
I believe they never intended to release the slaves. Less famous founders aside, Washington owned slaves (though he did free most) and had dentures of slave teeth, Jefferson raped one of his slaves, and very few founders even bothered to suggest such a thing.
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