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by Lancaster of Wessex » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:08 am
by Mathuvan Union » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:14 am
Punished UMN wrote:Mathuvan Union wrote:I dunno, because I don't really like explorers raiding helpless beings.
that is basically the only bad side of him and even then, it didn't happen much.
That doesn't make him controversial though. Whether he was bad or not doesn't necessarily spur controversy. I don't think Zheng He is particularly bad, so this example is unrelated, but like, Hitler is really evil, but that's not really a controversial opinion about Hitler. It's not like people preface "Hitler was evil" with "I don't want to get political or anything." Controversy would mean there are people who both revile and celebrate the person, in relatively equal measure.
by The New California Republic » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:19 am
Lancaster of Wessex wrote:Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
by Mathuvan Union » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:21 am
The New California Republic wrote:Lancaster of Wessex wrote:Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
There is something that might need pointing out here: how much of the controversy of certain people is actually due to the words and actions of the person, and how much of it is due to those words and actions being twisted and misinterpreted over the course of centuries?
by The New California Republic » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:27 am
Mathuvan Union wrote:The New California Republic wrote:There is something that might need pointing out here: how much of the controversy of certain people is actually due to the words and actions of the person, and how much of it is due to those words and actions being twisted and misinterpreted over the course of centuries?
Maybe hitler was a good painter but everyone hated him.
by Hypersensible Crybabies » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:30 am
by Lancaster of Wessex » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:31 am
The New California Republic wrote:Lancaster of Wessex wrote:Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
There is something that might need pointing out here: how much of the controversy of certain people is actually due to the words and actions of the person, and how much of it is due to those words and actions being twisted and misinterpreted over the course of centuries?
by Mathuvan Union » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:32 am
by Resilient Acceleration » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:34 am
Mathuvan Union wrote:The New California Republic wrote:There is something that might need pointing out here: how much of the controversy of certain people is actually due to the words and actions of the person, and how much of it is due to those words and actions being twisted and misinterpreted over the course of centuries?
Maybe hitler was a good painter but everyone hated him.
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by Mathuvan Union » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:35 am
Resilient Acceleration wrote:Mathuvan Union wrote:Maybe hitler was a good painter but everyone hated him.
IIRC, one of the selector's biggest criticism against Hitler's artworks is that they're too organized, orderly, and don't really show expression. After rejecting him, they even advised Hitler that he'll be more suitable in architecture. Considering that art is highly influenced by one's self, this felt like a bad premonition...
by West Bromwich Holme » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:54 am
by West Leas Oros 2 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:13 am
WLO Public News: Outdated Factbooks and other documents in process of major redesign! ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE: <error:not found>
by The New California Republic » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:02 am
Resilient Acceleration wrote:Mathuvan Union wrote:Maybe hitler was a good painter but everyone hated him.
IIRC, one of the selector's biggest criticism against Hitler's artworks is that they're too organized, orderly, and don't really show expression. After rejecting him, they even advised Hitler that he'll be more suitable in architecture. Considering that art is highly influenced by one's self, this felt like a bad premonition...
by Ethel mermania » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:09 am
The New California Republic wrote:Resilient Acceleration wrote:IIRC, one of the selector's biggest criticism against Hitler's artworks is that they're too organized, orderly, and don't really show expression. After rejecting him, they even advised Hitler that he'll be more suitable in architecture. Considering that art is highly influenced by one's self, this felt like a bad premonition...
I'm sure everyone would much rather he'd designed some pretty mediocre and uninspired houses in comparison to what he did.
by The Blaatschapen » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:09 am
The New California Republic wrote:Resilient Acceleration wrote:IIRC, one of the selector's biggest criticism against Hitler's artworks is that they're too organized, orderly, and don't really show expression. After rejecting him, they even advised Hitler that he'll be more suitable in architecture. Considering that art is highly influenced by one's self, this felt like a bad premonition...
I'm sure everyone would much rather he'd designed some pretty mediocre and uninspired houses in comparison to what he did.
by United Hemand Insia » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:12 am
by Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:36 pm
The Archregimancy wrote:Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:Well this is discussing who is the most controversial person in history, not exactly who is mildly controversial to a few people or ethnic groups.
Which is specifically why I offered a short list of some of the most controversial people in history pre-dating the 15th century rather than people who were mildly controversial to a few people or ethnic groups.
This may perhaps come as a surprise, but I do have a passing familiarity with historical topics.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:10 pm
by Ottoman Syldavia » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:13 pm
by United Hemand Insia » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:15 pm
Ottoman Syldavia wrote:I believe it is Richard Nixon. He helped the US in many ideals, but... I mean... Water gate duh.
by Somerania » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:18 pm
Mathuvan Union wrote:Kiu Ghesik wrote:Good point. I stand corrected. Though I still don't see how von Braun specifically can be blamed for it. Operation Paperclip and introducing a bunch of nasty fellows into the intelligence apparatus? Yeah, but I don't think von Braun ever had connections to that apparatus.
there was another one who certainly did because he was executed for war crimes.
Von Braun helped with the design of space suits, but likely only because of horrific tests performed on enslaved jews that involved oxygen deprivation.
by Destyntine » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:20 pm
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Christian Weston Chandler. He is also the most documented person in history.
by The Blaatschapen » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:31 pm
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Christian Weston Chandler. He is also the most documented person in history.
by The New California Republic » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:32 pm
Ottoman Syldavia wrote:I believe it is Richard Nixon. He helped the US in many ideals, but... I mean... Water gate duh.
by The Blaatschapen » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:32 pm
Nousa wrote:In a specifically American context, I'd say Robert E. Lee, given the ongoing debate about Confederate History contrasted with his generally well regarded moderate nature and battlefield success. Overall, however? Adolf Hitler, without question as we all live in the shadow of the Second World War.
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