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by Honeydewistania » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:31 pm
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by Free Las Pinas » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:13 pm
by East Durthang » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:54 pm
All Wild Things wrote:Another option would be to do away with the clicking altogether, and be randomly assigned packs for manually logging in every day. It could be set so that you have the same odds - the equivalent of 4 chances at 20% probability.
Awesomeland012345 wrote:Recently, there was a discussion on the cards discord that was sparked because N-Day requires Captchas. iirc, Virgolia said that they would cry if Captchas were added to cards. Of course, this wasn't to be taken literally, but it helps explain that adding Captchas to cards would make it so much more painful. I personally would not enjoy it, but I'm sure I would get used to it. Not that I'm not against it. It would be very, very, very painful though. But that's only me, others may have other opinions.
by Noahs Second Country » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:36 am
by One Small Island » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:58 am
by Giovanniland » Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:39 am
East Durthang wrote:They should probably be infrequent enough that going through a few nations worth of issues doesn't necessarily result in many captchas. Like a ratio averaging around 30 issues per 1 captcha after which you are guaranteed to be required to "pick all the motorcycles" or something. Captchas could also be made more tolerable by using non Google ones or even a completely custom implementation which generates an image containing a random number that has to be entered or selected within a certain amount of tries, after which you get locked out of answering any issue on that nation for several minutes for attempting to brute force it. "Pick the number" is a lot less painful compared to something like "select all images with <insert something> in them".
by Fhaengshia » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:31 am
by 9003 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:36 am
Giovanniland wrote:East Durthang wrote:They should probably be infrequent enough that going through a few nations worth of issues doesn't necessarily result in many captchas. Like a ratio averaging around 30 issues per 1 captcha after which you are guaranteed to be required to "pick all the motorcycles" or something. Captchas could also be made more tolerable by using non Google ones or even a completely custom implementation which generates an image containing a random number that has to be entered or selected within a certain amount of tries, after which you get locked out of answering any issue on that nation for several minutes for attempting to brute force it. "Pick the number" is a lot less painful compared to something like "select all images with <insert something> in them".
Ah, that's better. I was worried you wanted something like N-Day where every nation I'd join had a captcha, and the lengthy ones at that. I often needed to select every image of a car, then a pedestrian crossing, then a bicycle, then whatever until it finally unlocked. If we need captchas, please use the ones that we need to type a string of numbers or letters, those often crossed out or distorted to make it harder for bots.
by The Unified Missourtama States » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:44 am
Giovanniland wrote:Ah, that's better. I was worried you wanted something like N-Day where every nation I'd join had a captcha, and the lengthy ones at that. I often needed to select every image of a car, then a pedestrian crossing, then a bicycle, then whatever until it finally unlocked. If we need captchas, please use the ones that we need to type a string of numbers or letters, those often crossed out or distorted to make it harder for bots.
by Japanese Beetles » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:42 am
by The Emirate of The Emirate » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:44 am
The Unified Missourtama States wrote:The Emirate of The Emirate wrote:Card Packs DLC!
You know those old baseball card packs you got from the dollar store? You can get them now in Nationstates! Just spend some bank, and then you can get what you want! Here is what I thought of:
Regular Pack: 0.50 Bank
Legendary Pack: 5.00 Bank
Rainbow Pack: 1.00 Bank
there's a lot of problems with this idea, first of all you get bank from cards, so I don't know how you'd get the bank in the first place if you don't have any packs to get bank from...
Second your prices are horrifically nonsensical.
by HumanSanity » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:03 am
Sandaoguo wrote:HS is worth 100 times more than the insubstantial (to borderline non-existent) benefits the TNP-TSP “alliance” has created over the last several years.
by The Unified Missourtama States » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:57 am
by All Wild Things » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:04 pm
East Durthang wrote:All Wild Things wrote:Another option would be to do away with the clicking altogether, and be randomly assigned packs for manually logging in every day. It could be set so that you have the same odds - the equivalent of 4 chances at 20% probability.
The problem with tying card pack generation to logging in is that it's incredibly easy to script nation logins, meaning that while it would solve the issue answering issues, massive scale card farming becomes easier then ever.
by Fauzjhia » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:04 pm
The Unified Missourtama States wrote:First they limited auction time, then they nerfed TCALS, now it looks like we're heading back to lootboxes. Maybe they had it all correct in the original April Fools' event
All Wild Things wrote:East Durthang wrote:The problem with tying card pack generation to logging in is that it's incredibly easy to script nation logins, meaning that while it would solve the issue answering issues, massive scale card farming becomes easier then ever.
The existing system can tell the difference between answering issues via API and manually. I imagine it can do the same with logins via API vs manual. So as long as there's a rule saying that API login is the only legal way to login via script, there shouldn't be an issue. Card farmers would all go manual.
by Free Las Pinas » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:56 pm
by Warzone Codger » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:11 pm
by The Unified Missourtama States » Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:53 pm
Warzone Codger wrote:Throw our hands in the air and free the scripts by allowing API issue answering to generate cards. I don't think this is as a crazy suggestion as it sounds. Big Farma will move to the API which will make farming more efficient while simultaneously not affecting the site load as much. Once Big Farma has moved to API, issue answering statistics won't be as skewed as the majority of real issue answerers are done on site and I'm assuming the editors can filter API vs site issue answering.
Issue answering on site can still continue to spawn cards, so it won't affect the experience of casual players. They won't be able to compete with 'Big Farma', but they are never able to anyway, and Card collecting has always been more a single player game you take at your own pace, compared to the adversarial nature of R/D.
by Sanghyeok » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:06 pm
どんな時も、赤旗の眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister
by The Unified Missourtama States » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:10 pm
Sanghyeok wrote:Main Nation Name: Sanghyeok
Gift Nation Name: Sanghyeok
The Idea: I would argue a "confirmation button" for issue choices can be made mandatory if the system detects that ideas are being answered extremely quickly (example: more than 5 in under 30 seconds). The "confirmation button" would then remain for perhaps 10 issues after it begins.
Reasoning: This confirmation button is already an option, so less needs to be changed. Furthermore, the "penalty" is temporary, and disappears in a few days. It does not disadvantage people who answers quickly, but only people who are farming hard.
by Sanghyeok » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:12 pm
The Unified Missourtama States wrote:Sanghyeok wrote:Main Nation Name: Sanghyeok
Gift Nation Name: Sanghyeok
The Idea: I would argue a "confirmation button" for issue choices can be made mandatory if the system detects that ideas are being answered extremely quickly (example: more than 5 in under 30 seconds). The "confirmation button" would then remain for perhaps 10 issues after it begins.
Reasoning: This confirmation button is already an option, so less needs to be changed. Furthermore, the "penalty" is temporary, and disappears in a few days. It does not disadvantage people who answers quickly, but only people who are farming hard.
I actually like this, it's simple, and I think implementing it to every nation all the time wouldn't be that big an upset, however it is only one extra click, which isn't that much of a slowdown.
どんな時も、赤旗の眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister
by Racoda » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:11 pm
by Flanderlion » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:00 am
by Noahs Second Country » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:34 am
The Unified Missourtama States wrote:If this is really that big of an issue perhaps it's time to get rid of cards, people can obviously not be responsible users of this site.
If that's too extreme there is the option of a WA style cheatscanner for a one-player rule, then instead of a game of force cards becomes one of true investing risk and skill.
Add a parameter to nation creation which designates it as a card farming nation. Cards are generated directly in proportion to ads viewed, with a 20% chance of generating a pack per view and up to 4 ads per day.
This might not be the most elegant proposal, but perhaps a nation setting (enabled like vacation mode) that disables stat changes would help. (or rather, disables stat changes for issue-based stats, as DV/endorsements/influence aren't directly changed by issues). Of course, this idea completely relies upon the concept of cards always being inherently tied to issues.
Ad revenue is a difficult one. Specifically, trying to encourage people to allow the ads to load. The concept of a no-stats mode, by itself, does not really address this, but it thankfully doesn't make the problem worse. I am not personally familiar with the tools used by more serious farmers, but I know from experience that manually farming one's puppets often still gives enough time for advertisements to load, especially when one is sorting through the puppets' decks. However, that's basically a non-answer. It's possible that a reduced load on the servers (from not forcing it to calculate stat changes) would improve load times, and thus make it more likely for the ad to be loaded in, but that's only a guess. As I'd prefer that the advertising on the site remains unobtrusive, I have little I can offer here.
Get [violet] Herself to take out some adverts on NationStates.net explicitly promoting trading cards in perpetuity... perhaps place dozens of them on each issue page as well so that they take an extremely long time to load, thereby preventing rapid issue answering too
You know those old baseball card packs you got from the dollar store? You can get them now in Nationstates! Just spend some bank, and then you can get what you want! Here is what I thought of:
Regular Pack: 0.50 Bank
Legendary Pack: 5.00 Bank
Rainbow Pack: 1.00 Bank
What if there were a 20% chance to get packs from dismissing an Issue? Then the most widely-used scripts could be coded to dismiss Issues instead without compromising the chance of packs. (Are analytics about Issue dismissals as big a deal as the option statistics?) This would help with server load (as far as changing stats) as well.
Hang on — we aren't the entrées, right?
Introduce a random chance of captcha when answering issues
Create a yearly card festival event which is designed to be a time where getting cards is both easier and encouraged.
My idea isn't the best one there is but it would be a simple solution: separate issues from cards and then tie cards to the challenge mini-game.
Does anyone know why it was linked to issues in the first place?
The problem with tying card pack generation to logging in is that it's incredibly easy to script nation logins, meaning that while it would solve the issue answering issues, massive scale card farming becomes easier then ever.
Everyone's throttle solutions
This messes with several metrics that the issue editing team uses. When cards became bound to issues there was a 1000 fold increase in the amount of issues being answered. Most of these resulted in the first option being chosen many many many times more then any other options. This prevents issues editors from being able to identify issues that are leading or poorly worded.
Nationstates is run on ads you see them in the banner on the side. They might annoy you but they make the game money that it needs to keep it alive. Any solution should drive traffic to the website in a manor that allows the ads to load.
Currently the cards community coders are in an arms race to get as fast as possabile in a means to reach peak efficiency.
by Riemstagrad » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:48 am
Issues are being answered but not read
Massive Server Load
Lost potential ad revenue
Cards Farming Arms Race
All Solutions Must Be Long Term
The Solution May Not be Implemented
FREE CARDS LIKE LEGENDARY ONES!
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