Ethel mermania wrote:Everything short of direct incitement should be allowed.
My thoughts on the matter as well.
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by Korhe » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:42 pm
Ethel mermania wrote:Everything short of direct incitement should be allowed.
by Kowani » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:47 pm
by Cekoviu » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:29 pm
CoraSpia wrote:Cekoviu wrote:allowing freedom of speech and the press means people and journalists can spread counterrevolutionary falsehoods and radicalize youth into right-wingers (which will damage the socialist revolution). america is a perfect case study of that, in fact.
Yeah, that's a good thing. Obviously I'd prefer no government to a right-wing government but I'd prefer a right-wing government to a socialist dictatorship.
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Cekoviu wrote:allowing freedom of speech and the press means people and journalists can spread counterrevolutionary falsehoods and radicalize youth into right-wingers (which will damage the socialist revolution). america is a perfect case study of that, in fact.
Sounds more like you want to clamp down on the speech of anyone who doesn’t fit into your own particular version of the socialist revolution, since there are plenty of socialists, including revolutionaries, who do value and want to protect freedom of speech. What you want is more restricting freedom just because.
Kowani wrote:Cekoviu wrote:allowing freedom of speech and the press means people and journalists can spread counterrevolutionary falsehoods and radicalize youth into right-wingers (which will damage the socialist revolution). america is a perfect case study of that, in fact.
In the position the left is in right now, much like the fascists, we cannot afford to lose freedom of speech.
by The Greater Ohio Valley » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:37 pm
Cekoviu wrote:The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Sounds more like you want to clamp down on the speech of anyone who doesn’t fit into your own particular version of the socialist revolution, since there are plenty of socialists, including revolutionaries, who do value and want to protect freedom of speech. What you want is more restricting freedom just because.
that's right, yeah! this guy gets it!
by The Greater Ohio Valley » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:41 pm
by Cekoviu » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:04 pm
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Cekoviu wrote:
that's right, yeah! this guy gets it!
Sounds like you don’t have the best interests of who you’re fighting for at heart then, you’re liberating people from oppressive capitalists only to assume the role of the oppressor yourself. Restricting freedom just for the sake of doing it is absolute garbage.
by Sanghyeok » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:06 pm
Cekoviu wrote:why? what's inherently good about freedom?
どんな時も、赤旗の眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister
by Sanghyeok » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:22 pm
どんな時も、赤旗の眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister
by Sanghyeok » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:23 pm
どんな時も、赤旗の眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister
by Cekoviu » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:24 pm
by Cekoviu » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:25 pm
Sanghyeok wrote:Cekoviu wrote:that does not answer the question and is not even based on an accurate premise
Certainly, sometimes more authoritarian means are required in reaching it, depending on the context - but the end goal of leftism is an equal, just, stable, and peaceful world with civil freedoms and no oppression.
by The Emerald Legion » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:25 pm
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Loben III wrote:
Right and the Bolsheviks were a complete improvement for all involved in Russia, the maoists and China and those fucktards in Eastern Europe after the 2nd world war. But seeing as how none of that pertains to free speech, you’re just blowing hot air.
I disagree with Bolsheviks of Maoists, and have no patience for tanky scum. As you can read, I have no love for anti-democratic ideologies of any kind, so Bolsheviks, Stalinists and Maoists can fuck right off for all I care. If their speech is anti-democratic, I don’t want to hear it.
But fo the average person, economic life did improve under these systems. But of course, I was talking about social democrats and other left-wing groups, as well as unions. But it seems to be either libertarian or stalinist in your book.The Emerald Legion wrote:
... You mean like you're doing right now? "Authoritarians will use their free speech to restrict speech using foul sorcery. Therefore we must preemptively restrict speech so they can't do it first."
Or maybe we could just make free speech a cornerstone and not fucking attack it constantly.
Fascist speech is both an attack on free speech and an attack on democratic values. Banning fascist speech is neither. It’s not dark magic, it’s probable historical fact that fascists do not engage in debate, only in propaganda.
“It’s only free speech if we allow ourselves to be destroyed by it!” Is a shit argument.
by Sanghyeok » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:27 pm
どんな時も、赤旗の眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister
by The Greater Ohio Valley » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:33 pm
Cekoviu wrote:why? what's inherently good about freedom?
by Cekoviu » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:37 pm
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Cekoviu wrote:why? what's inherently good about freedom?
I imagine people, and in turn society, is generally happier without the threat of being gulag’d, killed or tortured for daring to speak their mind on things they want to speak their minds on, enjoy the things they like enjoying (provided they aren’t raping, murdering or maiming other people) or just going about their day. You seem to be enjoying those freedoms right now.
by Vetalia » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:44 pm
Cekoviu wrote:why? what's inherently good about freedom?
by Gutaiai » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:52 pm
by The Emerald Legion » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:54 pm
Cekoviu wrote:The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:I imagine people, and in turn society, is generally happier without the threat of being gulag’d, killed or tortured for daring to speak their mind on things they want to speak their minds on, enjoy the things they like enjoying (provided they aren’t raping, murdering or maiming other people) or just going about their day. You seem to be enjoying those freedoms right now.
believe me, if i knew i could just easily get killed for writing politics online, i'd be thrilled, but that's beside the point
why are rape, murder, and maiming somehow a distinct class, the only prohibited things to you? what's special about them?
by Cordel One » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:55 pm
Gutaiai wrote:Free speech is inherently important for the exchange of ideas.
Why censor "hate speech" or extremists when you can use your rights to speak freely as an invitation to mock and ridicule their ideas?
Anyone who argues otherwise is just asking for a slippery slope where the government silences all opposition under the pretext of "hate speech" and "radicals" and becomes extremely totalitarian.
by Vetalia » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:01 pm
Cordel One wrote:The slippery slope is a logical fallacy.
by The Emerald Legion » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:03 pm
Cordel One wrote:Gutaiai wrote:Free speech is inherently important for the exchange of ideas.
Why censor "hate speech" or extremists when you can use your rights to speak freely as an invitation to mock and ridicule their ideas?
Anyone who argues otherwise is just asking for a slippery slope where the government silences all opposition under the pretext of "hate speech" and "radicals" and becomes extremely totalitarian.
The slippery slope is a logical fallacy.
by Tekania » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:03 pm
by Vetalia » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:06 pm
Tekania wrote:Everyone has a right to freedom of speech, and a right to free association. As such if I manage a forum I have a right to determine which speech I will or will not host. And if you manage a forum you can to.
In short, everyone has a right to free-speech, but a right to free-speech does not give you rights over someone elses platform.
by Cekoviu » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:10 pm
The Emerald Legion wrote:Cekoviu wrote:believe me, if i knew i could just easily get killed for writing politics online, i'd be thrilled, but that's beside the point
why are rape, murder, and maiming somehow a distinct class, the only prohibited things to you? what's special about them?
By and large, Rape, Murder, and Maiming people requires violating their freedom of choice.
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