Coronavirus Thread V: A Shot in the Arm (READ OP)

[San Lumen]

I doubt they would do something like that.

I doubt they would tell people they were doing something like that.

Big Pharma puts a lot more research into remedies than cures.

With a remedy the patient has to keep taking (and paying for) the pharmaceutical, and that can be priced quite reasonably while still making a lot of money from that patient (or their insurer) for years.

With a cure, everyone with the problem would pay the upfront cost (even if it's very high) to be cured. Then there would be no revenue at all.

Big Pharma doesn't want you cured ... any more than Big Oil wants you buying an electric car.

I consider myself to a pessimist sometimes but this is delving into the realm of conspiracy theory and it’s rather ridiculous sounding.

[The Black Forrest]

I doubt they would do something like that.

I doubt they would tell people they were doing something like that.

Big Pharma puts a lot more research into remedies than cures.

With a remedy the patient has to keep taking (and paying for) the pharmaceutical, and that can be priced quite reasonably while still making a lot of money from that patient (or their insurer) for years.

With a cure, everyone with the problem would pay the upfront cost (even if it's very high) to be cured. Then there would be no revenue at all.

Big Pharma doesn't want you cured ... any more than Big Oil wants you buying an electric car.

Exactly. Just like with AIDs; better to have a drug cocktail which will keep you alive and in debt to the drug companies for the rest of your days.

I was interested when Jonas Salk said he was going to get involved. Unfortunately; he passed away.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

That said, Big Pharma will likely act out of character when it comes to the coronavirus vaccine. Because of the enormous public profile each company associated with a vaccine will have. The reputation they can gain this time would be worth taking a substantial loss.

It's not all that incompatible. Pfizer (for instance) giving away vaccines for free doesn't make them philanthropists, as long as there is some other business motive for them to do that. The other business motive is: brand development.

[Rusozak]

That said, Big Pharma will likely act out of character when it comes to the coronavirus vaccine. Because of the enormous public profile each company associated with a vaccine will have. The reputation they can gain this time would be worth taking a substantial loss.

It's not all that incompatible. Pfizer (for instance) giving away vaccines for free doesn't make them philanthropists, as long as there is some other business motive for them to do that. The other business motive is: brand development.

Not to mention the economic benefit to ending the pandemic as soon as possible. More people alive with more money to spend on pharmaceuticals.

[The Black Forrest]

That said, Big Pharma will likely act out of character when it comes to the coronavirus vaccine. Because of the enormous public profile each company associated with a vaccine will have. The reputation they can gain this time would be worth taking a substantial loss.

It's not all that incompatible. Pfizer (for instance) giving away vaccines for free doesn't make them philanthropists, as long as there is some other business motive for them to do that. The other business motive is: brand development.

Probably future contracts and tax cuts.....

[The Black Forrest]

One promising thing I have been watching are the serious criticals. For months the number have bounced in the 16000s. It sits at 14000s for about a week now. Still the holiday and a few big events are still within the infection period so we shall see. Still a hopeful sign.....

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I doubt they would tell people they were doing something like that.

Big Pharma puts a lot more research into remedies than cures.

With a remedy the patient has to keep taking (and paying for) the pharmaceutical, and that can be priced quite reasonably while still making a lot of money from that patient (or their insurer) for years.

With a cure, everyone with the problem would pay the upfront cost (even if it's very high) to be cured. Then there would be no revenue at all.

Big Pharma doesn't want you cured ... any more than Big Oil wants you buying an electric car.

Exactly. Just like with AIDs; better to have a drug cocktail which will keep you alive and in debt to the drug companies for the rest of your days.

To be fair, a cure is more of a technical challenge. Many diseases are not from viruses or other pathogens, but are malfunctioning of the body. Surgery aims to change the body permanently, effecting a cure, but it's hard to do that with a pharmaceutical.

HIV is a great case, because it does have a vector that should be susceptible to some pharmaceutical. It should be possible, but I think the incentive to develop a cure by any one pharma, is stifled by the existence of remedies from another. Competition has its downsides, including this form of innovation: an entirely different means to the same end, and two distinctly different products having to compete in the same market.

I was interested when Jonas Salk said he was going to get involved. Unfortunately; he passed away.

The name rings a bell. Geneticist?

[The Black Forrest]

Exactly. Just like with AIDs; better to have a drug cocktail which will keep you alive and in debt to the drug companies for the rest of your days.

To be fair, a cure is more of a technical challenge. Many diseases are not from viruses or other pathogens, but are malfunctioning of the body. Surgery aims to change the body permanently, effecting a cure, but it's hard to do that with a pharmaceutical.

HIV is a great case, because it does have a vector that should be susceptible to some pharmaceutical. It should be possible, but I think the incentive to develop a cure by any one pharma, is stifled by the existence of remedies from another. Competition has its downsides, including this form of innovation: an entirely different means to the same end, and two distinctly different products having to compete in the same market.

I was interested when Jonas Salk said he was going to get involved. Unfortunately; he passed away.

The name rings a bell. Geneticist?

The polio vaccine guy.

[Neutraligon]

Pfizer coronavirus vaccine could be given to Americans before end of the year, CEO says

From what I understand, the Pfizer vaccine is still enrolling people in trials. The FDA has said they want a 2 month period after getting the final injection to study the results and possible complications of the vaccine. That 2 months and it being mid September means that at the earliest analysis by Pfizer can begin in mid November. Then the FDA needs time to review the analysis, and that will take a while. The FDA is likely already inspecting the manufacturing facilities, so at least that won't hold anything up.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

That said, Big Pharma will likely act out of character when it comes to the coronavirus vaccine. Because of the enormous public profile each company associated with a vaccine will have. The reputation they can gain this time would be worth taking a substantial loss.

It's not all that incompatible. Pfizer (for instance) giving away vaccines for free doesn't make them philanthropists, as long as there is some other business motive for them to do that. The other business motive is: brand development.

Probably future contracts and tax cuts.....

Big corporations aren't always good at making long-term decisions. But they hardly have to when bargaining with government, whose own planning doesn't seem to extend beyond the next election.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

That said, Big Pharma will likely act out of character when it comes to the coronavirus vaccine. Because of the enormous public profile each company associated with a vaccine will have. The reputation they can gain this time would be worth taking a substantial loss.

It's not all that incompatible. Pfizer (for instance) giving away vaccines for free doesn't make them philanthropists, as long as there is some other business motive for them to do that. The other business motive is: brand development.

Not to mention the economic benefit to ending the pandemic as soon as possible. More people alive with more money to spend on pharmaceuticals.

You're not thinking like a corporation. Unless there's some branding advantage, that money spent on pharmaceuticals will help their competitors just as much as them. It's also fairly inelastic: prescription medicines will be one of the last things people give up to save money.

Furthermore, pharmas are probably weathering the recession better than a lot of other industries. So while their revenue may be down, their whole sector is growing as part of the economy.

Small pharmas that might be targets for big ones to take over, may be struggling in the current economic climate, and the longer recession continues the more attractive they will be as targets.

After all, I think each pharma in the vaccine race has some incentive towards the economy recovering. But it's not all that strong an incentive, varies between one company and another, and may be negative in some cases. It's not much for or against the massive branding triumph of being the First In The World.

[Salandriagado]

Pfizer coronavirus vaccine could be given to Americans before end of the year, CEO says

From what I understand, the Pfizer vaccine is still enrolling people in trials. The FDA has said they want a 2 month period after getting the final injection to study the results and possible complications of the vaccine. That 2 months and it being mid September means that at the earliest analysis by Pfizer can begin in mid November. Then the FDA needs time to review the analysis, and that will take a while. The FDA is likely already inspecting the manufacturing facilities, so at least that won't hold anything up.

Pfizer has hit full enrollment for their original trial group. They've also started an expanded trial in vulnerable people (people with HIV/Hepatitis, for example) to see how well it performs in those groups. It's quite possible that we get an approval for most people before that latter trial gets enough data.

[The Alma Mater]

Pfizer coronavirus vaccine could be given to Americans before end of the year, CEO says

Trump says it will be ready in a few weeks.
He also added that it would have taken the previous administration years due to their love of FDAtesting and such; but that under his leadership testing properly is not needed.

[Kannap]

I doubt they would tell people they were doing something like that.

Big Pharma puts a lot more research into remedies than cures.

With a remedy the patient has to keep taking (and paying for) the pharmaceutical, and that can be priced quite reasonably while still making a lot of money from that patient (or their insurer) for years.

With a cure, everyone with the problem would pay the upfront cost (even if it's very high) to be cured. Then there would be no revenue at all.

Big Pharma doesn't want you cured ... any more than Big Oil wants you buying an electric car.

I consider myself to a pessimist sometimes but this is delving into the realm of conspiracy theory and it’s rather ridiculous sounding.

It's not a conspiracy theory if its what they routinely do as a matter of practice. That's the problem when they're private companies seeking to make money: they'll do things that make them more money.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I consider myself to a pessimist sometimes but this is delving into the realm of conspiracy theory and it’s rather ridiculous sounding.

It's not a conspiracy theory if its what they routinely do as a matter of practice. That's the problem when they're private companies seeking to make money: they'll do things that make them more money.

Unless they're Martin Shkreli and let the cat out of the bag. Most capitalist bloodsuckers would know to make up some reason before hiking the price on a common pharmaceutical. But he was a young buck, he just did it because "I'm allowed to"

Never faced charges for it either. Apparently he IS allowed to.

I wouldn't be surprised if his demise for securities fraud was payback from someone else in the pharma industry.

[Post War America]

I doubt they would tell people they were doing something like that.

Big Pharma puts a lot more research into remedies than cures.

With a remedy the patient has to keep taking (and paying for) the pharmaceutical, and that can be priced quite reasonably while still making a lot of money from that patient (or their insurer) for years.

With a cure, everyone with the problem would pay the upfront cost (even if it's very high) to be cured. Then there would be no revenue at all.

Big Pharma doesn't want you cured ... any more than Big Oil wants you buying an electric car.

I consider myself to a pessimist sometimes but this is delving into the realm of conspiracy theory and it’s rather ridiculous sounding.

That's literally how pharmaceutical corporations operate. So its certainly no more ridiculous than a lot of the hysterical bullshit you've been spewing.

[Greed and Death]

I doubt they would do something like that.

I doubt they would tell people they were doing something like that.

Big Pharma puts a lot more research into remedies than cures.

With a remedy the patient has to keep taking (and paying for) the pharmaceutical, and that can be priced quite reasonably while still making a lot of money from that patient (or their insurer) for years.

With a cure, everyone with the problem would pay the upfront cost (even if it's very high) to be cured. Then there would be no revenue at all.

Big Pharma doesn't want you cured ... any more than Big Oil wants you buying an electric car.

Not really. it is just alleviating symptoms is a lot easier than solving the root cause of those symptoms.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I doubt they would tell people they were doing something like that.

Big Pharma puts a lot more research into remedies than cures.

With a remedy the patient has to keep taking (and paying for) the pharmaceutical, and that can be priced quite reasonably while still making a lot of money from that patient (or their insurer) for years.

With a cure, everyone with the problem would pay the upfront cost (even if it's very high) to be cured. Then there would be no revenue at all.

Big Pharma doesn't want you cured ... any more than Big Oil wants you buying an electric car.

Not really. it is just alleviating symptoms is a lot easier than solving the root cause of those symptoms.

Not really. Remedies are more than just "alleviating symptoms" eg the HIV cocktail stops people developing AIDS and dying.

I mentioned before that developing cures is harder than developing remedies. Takes longer, costs more. But a cure is better than a remedy, and would be priced high enough (until it became unnecessary) to recover costs and make a profit. Bear in mind that surgery is the method of most cures, and to compete with surgery for patients, the price of a pharma cure could be that high.

The future earnings of a company are better served by remedies they can keep profiting from until the patent runs out, than by cures that, however high the price, will have a shorter market life.

[Ethel mermania]

The grave digging is the penalty. But imprisonment would be an acceptable alternative. Anything to keep these people away from society that would actually be a deterrent.

I think imprisonment for not wearing a mask is absurd.

50 dollar fine for a first offense.

[Greed and Death]

Pfizer coronavirus vaccine could be given to Americans before end of the year, CEO says

From what I understand, the Pfizer vaccine is still enrolling people in trials. The FDA has said they want a 2 month period after getting the final injection to study the results and possible complications of the vaccine. That 2 months and it being mid September means that at the earliest analysis by Pfizer can begin in mid November. Then the FDA needs time to review the analysis, and that will take a while. The FDA is likely already inspecting the manufacturing facilities, so at least that won't hold anything up.

It will be announced mid to late October and the FDA is doing studies on complications, contemporaneously with the phase three trials as the data comes in. The vaccine is also being manufactured with the FDA reviewing the manufacturing sites contemporaneously to production. We should see first doses going out mid November. And most of priority group one inoculated by end of the year.

[Greed and Death]

I think imprisonment for not wearing a mask is absurd.

50 dollar fine for a first offense.

agreed

[San Lumen]

From what I understand, the Pfizer vaccine is still enrolling people in trials. The FDA has said they want a 2 month period after getting the final injection to study the results and possible complications of the vaccine. That 2 months and it being mid September means that at the earliest analysis by Pfizer can begin in mid November. Then the FDA needs time to review the analysis, and that will take a while. The FDA is likely already inspecting the manufacturing facilities, so at least that won't hold anything up.

It will be announced mid to late October and the FDA is doing studies on complications, contemporaneously with the phase three trials as the data comes in. The vaccine is also being manufactured with the FDA reviewing the manufacturing sites contemporaneously to production. We should see first doses going out mid November. And most of priority group one inoculated by end of the year.

If that’s true I hope it doesn’t lead to a turnaround for Trump.

[Kowani]

It's not a conspiracy theory if its what they routinely do as a matter of practice. That's the problem when they're private companies seeking to make money: they'll do things that make them more money.

Unless they're Martin Shkreli and let the cat out of the bag. Most capitalist bloodsuckers would know to make up some reason before hiking the price on a common pharmaceutical. But he was a young buck, he just did it because "I'm allowed to"

Never faced charges for it either. Apparently he IS allowed to.

I wouldn't be surprised if his demise for securities fraud was payback from someone else in the pharma industry.

He’s working from jail.

[Sanghyeok]

Unless they're Martin Shkreli and let the cat out of the bag. Most capitalist bloodsuckers would know to make up some reason before hiking the price on a common pharmaceutical. But he was a young buck, he just did it because "I'm allowed to"

Never faced charges for it either. Apparently he IS allowed to.

I wouldn't be surprised if his demise for securities fraud was payback from someone else in the pharma industry.

He’s working from jail.

I don't usually support death penalty. I think 99% of even murderers do not deserve it, and many people can be rehabilitated.
But seeing people like him who intentionally exploits the weakest part of society....one struggles to hold on to reason.

[Post War America]

It will be announced mid to late October and the FDA is doing studies on complications, contemporaneously with the phase three trials as the data comes in. The vaccine is also being manufactured with the FDA reviewing the manufacturing sites contemporaneously to production. We should see first doses going out mid November. And most of priority group one inoculated by end of the year.

If that’s true I hope it doesn’t lead to a turnaround for Trump.

Amazing how quickly your views on vaccination dates turn around when it might be beneficial to your political opponents.