Thomas Paine was not a leftist. He was a liberal.
Have you read any Thomas Paine. If you did you might have some Common Sense...
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by -Ra- » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:08 am
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by Aureumterra » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:14 am
by Aureumterra » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:14 am
by Outer Acharet » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:16 am
News? What news? News is for people who don't have a bloated military-industrial complex strangling their apparatus of state. Wait, that sounds like a bad thing, doesn't it?
by Necroghastia » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:24 am
The very section of the article you cited wrote:In the United States, many leftists, social liberals, progressives and trade unionists were influenced by the works of Thomas Paine, who introduced the concept of asset-based egalitarianism, which theorises that social equality is possible by a redistribution of resources.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:30 am
Aureumterra wrote:Is the stuff shown in the cartoon really confined to leftism? Or any political view in general? It just seems a problem of toxicity, which sadly seems to be more prevalent than ever, since most people can hide behind a screen and be keyboard warriors.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:31 am
-Ra- wrote:Cordel One wrote:The term "left" originated in the French Revolution but leftist ideals are much older.
This is incorrect. Leftist ideals originated in the French revolution.
by Awesomeland012345 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:31 am
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by Outer Acharet » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:34 am
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
You hear that everyone? No one was ever politically left of center till the French Revolution.
News? What news? News is for people who don't have a bloated military-industrial complex strangling their apparatus of state. Wait, that sounds like a bad thing, doesn't it?
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:34 am
Awesomeland012345 wrote:People just want to be right. They don't care if they're wrong, then they'll use flawed logic to argue. And when that fails, they'll repeat their arguments. And so on. It's the same for everyone, except for the exceptionally levelheaded or logical.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:34 am
Outer Acharet wrote:Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
You hear that everyone? No one was ever politically left of center till the French Revolution.
While it's a misstatement, modern "liberalism" and that school of thought originated around this time. Not wholly from the French revolution, but secular government, democratic, free society, social equality of all peoples, etc. are outgrowths of the Enlightenment IIRC.
by Nuroblav » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:09 pm
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Guess we gotta define what "leftist ideals" are then.
by Outer Acharet » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:12 pm
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Outer Acharet wrote:While it's a misstatement, modern "liberalism" and that school of thought originated around this time. Not wholly from the French revolution, but secular government, democratic, free society, social equality of all peoples, etc. are outgrowths of the Enlightenment IIRC.
Guess we gotta define what "leftist ideals" are then.
News? What news? News is for people who don't have a bloated military-industrial complex strangling their apparatus of state. Wait, that sounds like a bad thing, doesn't it?
by Xmara » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:23 pm
by Outer Acharet » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:32 pm
Xmara wrote:What are we supposed to be discussing? And how does any of this constitute as “tampering with evidence?” I thought tampering with evidence referred to messing with stuff at a crime scene.
News? What news? News is for people who don't have a bloated military-industrial complex strangling their apparatus of state. Wait, that sounds like a bad thing, doesn't it?
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:05 pm
by Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:46 pm
by Steppe Khanate » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:51 pm
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by Lanoraie II » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:07 pm
by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:12 pm
Duvniask wrote:Cekoviu wrote:of course it is
god i cannot stand edgy "comedians"
Fuck no. George Carlin was good. If you think being edgy is all there was to him, you're missing out.
And no, I'm not going to condemn him for mocking the appearance of these pro-life weirdos. Precisely as he says, they are anti-women (and don't actually care about human life, if you take into account their usual accompanying positions), and to think people here might be getting more outraged at the mockery than what he is mocking... give me a break.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.
by Duvniask » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:14 pm
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Duvniask wrote:Fuck no. George Carlin was good. If you think being edgy is all there was to him, you're missing out.
And no, I'm not going to condemn him for mocking the appearance of these pro-life weirdos. Precisely as he says, they are anti-women (and don't actually care about human life, if you take into account their usual accompanying positions), and to think people here might be getting more outraged at the mockery than what he is mocking... give me a break.
To imply their appearance is fair game is to call appearance fair game, making it just as fair game in people of OTHER opinions, whether you acknowledge that or not. You can't have it both ways.
As well, there are motives for being anti-abortion that do not boil down to jealousy or you wouldn't see these same activists getting abortions when it's they themselves get pregnant.
So is George Carlin discredited by this sort of thing? He never outright said "if it isn't motivated by envy, it's motivated by estrogen/progesterone," which would give him some backpedal room for such cases, but also didn't outright say otherwise.
But as it is, I have reason to believe he was... not exactly of sound judgment in the conclusions he came to.
Okay, a few things I need to clear up.
1. I'm not calling politics in general an experiment in and of itself; merely indicating that it inadvertently doubles as one and I do not wish people to rig the game against legitimate generalizations (or evidence thereof) about which ideas correlate against which other ideas. If people being themselves gives your side a bad name, perhaps it deserves the bad name.
2. With all that said, the people asking if it's any more common on this side than the other really do raise a legitimate issue; I have yet to quantify this pattern. I would think if I noticed this pattern before it's for a reason. But it's possible I take a little more personally hearing people who support the same abortion policies I support say the exact same thing that used to be said about me when I bought into "niceguyism's" fearmongering about "bad boys." It's possible I take a little more personally hearing people who mock anti-gay figures' supposed homosexuality mock them for having gay sex and then claim to be less homophobic than them. (Surely "we're less willing to impose gender roles on people" should be a strong enough point.) It's possible I take a little more personally hearing people use the same cheap shot on Trump they use on Michael Moore. I just feel compelled not to stack the deck against it because we... might find out a little something about human nature while we're at it.
But that's the key phrase. We might.
by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:08 pm
Duvniask wrote:It can be fair game, I guess. Carlin is just doing an insult against these people who prattle on and on about the sanctity of life and the value of the unborn while also calling out their usual hypocrisy and the inconsistency of their arguments (i.e. if human life begins at fertilization, that means any fertilized eggs flushed out during a period are equivalent to the death of a human being).
Duvniask wrote:If you're going to be critical of that, you may as well levy a criticism against all insults and inflammatory language. I mean why not? Any kind of insult has an unnerving aspect to it, so if that by itself is the problem, then they must all be immmoral or at least problematic. Calling someone a "piece of shit" or "dumbfuck" is probably just as damaging if not more so than implying they are ugly/insufferable to be around. The issue, it seems to me, has more to do with whether it's fair/understandable or not to make the insult, not "HOW DARE YOU SAY SOMETHING BAD ABOUT ANOTHER PERSON".
Duvniask wrote:Perhaps, but I think it would be imprudent to think that means he is saying people are pro-life because they are ugly/insufferable or otherwise unattractive in some way.
Duvniask wrote:Making fun of homophobes for having gay sex, like Ted Haggard for instance, isn't a condemnation of homosexuality. It's a condemnation of their hypocrisy.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.
by Rusozak » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:16 pm
by Picairn » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:22 pm
Rusozak wrote:I'm confused. What evidence? What is it the evidence of? How is it being tampered with?
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