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by Solvokina » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:10 pm
by Neutraligon » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:20 pm
by Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:29 pm
by Neutraligon » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:34 pm
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:Neutraligon wrote:Sorta, I would say the rural poor and generally "uneducated". They have been for a very long time ignored by both parties.
Ah. So not the nationalists, then. I can't exactly... agree.... Look, let's just say that the idea that Trump was elected by the uneducated is... quite the hot take. People might think you're a liberal for it.
Also I mean the rural folk have always been voting republican, so again, nothing new.
by Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:44 pm
Neutraligon wrote:Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:Ah. So not the nationalists, then. I can't exactly... agree.... Look, let's just say that the idea that Trump was elected by the uneducated is... quite the hot take. People might think you're a liberal for it.
Also I mean the rural folk have always been voting republican, so again, nothing new.
I may be wrong but I think Trump brought out voters who have not voted before. I left uneducated in quotes for a reason. As to people thinking I am a liberal, by most American definitions I am one.
by Glaristant » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:52 pm
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:12 pm
by Jedi Council » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:01 pm
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Salus Maior » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:15 pm
by Shofercia » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:18 pm
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:Panslavicland wrote:We should thank devoutly religious people for helping to elect and soon to re-elect President Trump. I think its fair to say their support has been among the most unwavering right from the start. And why shouldn't it? Of course the Republicans are the only party offering religious freedom and standing up for traditional values, and among Republicans President Trump stands out above the others for his commitment to those values.
Doesn't Christianity have a history of being staunch against Democracy? What with the "divine right of kings" and whatnot.
Also Trump aint gonna do what you think he will because he's a loose populist lol.
Jedi Council wrote:I certainly would agree that one of the most dangerous things about faith based religions is that they do not encourage critical thinking, and they rely upon mystical nonsense to manipulate and indoctrinate people. There are clear similarities here to the ability of Trump supporters to wave away reality when it suits them.
However, I do not think we can blame religion for Trump by way of that route. There are plenty of perfectly kind, well adjusted people of faith who find Trump and his policies nearly as abhorrent as I do.
What I think is the more convincing argument is that organized religion, especially evangelical Christianity, has now been proven, by way of that communities unwavering support for Trump, to be nothing more than a cabal of gullible hypocrites, led by a host of charlatans, and monstrously deluded Priests, Pastors, and Reverends who earn a living by deluding the masses.
I mean, lets look at Trump, he is the personifaction of every single one of the Seven Deadly Sins. He is the most un-Christian man ever elected President. He shamelessly uses religion as a crutch, even when it is clear he has never personally believed, nor even had the slightest understanding of his own supposed faith. He openly admitted his favourite verse from the Bible was "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," which is an originally Israelite teaching specifically repudiated by Jesus, and then invented his own passage when he said his real favoruite was "Proverbs, the Chapter Never Bend to Envy," which is not even a real.
Anyone who is actually a devout Christian should not be able to reconcile their faith with supporting someone so evidently ignorant of, and frankly antithetical to, their supposed moral teachings.
Shofercia wrote:If you're going to vote for Religious Virtue in American Politics, than you might as well not vote. Did Governor Cuomo love his neighbors by exterminating them through placing infected people in elderly homes, a more modern version of British Smallpox Blankets?
Diopolis wrote:Religious Christians- and other religious people- have always cared more about a leaders policies than their personal behavior. This isn't new. Sometimes it's theologically justified(Roman Catholicism, for example) sometimes it's not(most Arminian protestants), and sometimes the denomination in question acts all confused when you ask them to justify it theologically, but it is a universal rule.
Atheris wrote:Blaming religion for Trump is like blaming science for tear gas.
by Jedi Council » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:31 pm
Shofercia wrote:Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:
Doesn't Christianity have a history of being staunch against Democracy? What with the "divine right of kings" and whatnot.
Also Trump aint gonna do what you think he will because he's a loose populist lol.
That depends on the religion, but most religious people I know tend to keep religion and politics separate.Jedi Council wrote:I certainly would agree that one of the most dangerous things about faith based religions is that they do not encourage critical thinking, and they rely upon mystical nonsense to manipulate and indoctrinate people. There are clear similarities here to the ability of Trump supporters to wave away reality when it suits them.
However, I do not think we can blame religion for Trump by way of that route. There are plenty of perfectly kind, well adjusted people of faith who find Trump and his policies nearly as abhorrent as I do.
What I think is the more convincing argument is that organized religion, especially evangelical Christianity, has now been proven, by way of that communities unwavering support for Trump, to be nothing more than a cabal of gullible hypocrites, led by a host of charlatans, and monstrously deluded Priests, Pastors, and Reverends who earn a living by deluding the masses.
I mean, lets look at Trump, he is the personifaction of every single one of the Seven Deadly Sins. He is the most un-Christian man ever elected President. He shamelessly uses religion as a crutch, even when it is clear he has never personally believed, nor even had the slightest understanding of his own supposed faith. He openly admitted his favourite verse from the Bible was "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," which is an originally Israelite teaching specifically repudiated by Jesus, and then invented his own passage when he said his real favoruite was "Proverbs, the Chapter Never Bend to Envy," which is not even a real.
Anyone who is actually a devout Christian should not be able to reconcile their faith with supporting someone so evidently ignorant of, and frankly antithetical to, their supposed moral teachings.
Matthew 22:21
Also:Shofercia wrote:If you're going to vote for Religious Virtue in American Politics, than you might as well not vote. Did Governor Cuomo love his neighbors by exterminating them through placing infected people in elderly homes, a more modern version of British Smallpox Blankets?Diopolis wrote:Religious Christians- and other religious people- have always cared more about a leaders policies than their personal behavior. This isn't new. Sometimes it's theologically justified(Roman Catholicism, for example) sometimes it's not(most Arminian protestants), and sometimes the denomination in question acts all confused when you ask them to justify it theologically, but it is a universal rule.Atheris wrote:Blaming religion for Trump is like blaming science for tear gas.
The majority of people who voted for Trump, did so for one of four reasons:
1. Economics - quite a few of Trump voters benefited from his economic plan, at least until COVID-19 hit
2. Attention Seeking - the need to have someone pretend to pay attention to them, and empower, or at least pretend to empower them
3. Anti-Hilary Clinton - this is the "anyone but Hilary" crowd
4. Anti-establishment - Hilary was establishment, Donald wasn't
I can't think of a single Trump voter that I know, that didn't have at least one of those four reasons play a key role in his/her vote. Even if a person is deeply religious, said person has two choices: disenfranchise himself/herself, (because let's face it, who was the last truly Christian President? JFK? Ford?) and let those who aren't deeply religious have even more voting power, or let the political reality dictate the choice.
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Jedi Council is in fact, the big gay... The lord of all gays.
by Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:58 pm
Shofercia wrote:Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:
Doesn't Christianity have a history of being staunch against Democracy? What with the "divine right of kings" and whatnot.
Also Trump aint gonna do what you think he will because he's a loose populist lol.
That depends on the religion, but most religious people I know tend to keep religion and politics separate.
by Shofercia » Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:00 am
Jedi Council wrote:Shofercia wrote:
That depends on the religion, but most religious people I know tend to keep religion and politics separate...
The majority of people who voted for Trump, did so for one of four reasons:
1. Economics - quite a few of Trump voters benefited from his economic plan, at least until COVID-19 hit
2. Attention Seeking - the need to have someone pretend to pay attention to them, and empower, or at least pretend to empower them
3. Anti-Hilary Clinton - this is the "anyone but Hilary" crowd
4. Anti-establishment - Hilary was establishment, Donald wasn't
I can't think of a single Trump voter that I know, that didn't have at least one of those four reasons play a key role in his/her vote. Even if a person is deeply religious, said person has two choices: disenfranchise himself/herself, (because let's face it, who was the last truly Christian President? JFK? Ford?) and let those who aren't deeply religious have even more voting power, or let the political reality dictate the choice.
I dont disagree with almost anything you say, as none of it changes the inherent hypocrisy that Diopolis pointed out and that I did as well.
Religious people who vote for someone they find personally repugnant because of policies are incredibly hypocritical, as anyone in that situation, religious or otherwise would be.
You are correct in saying that the primary reasons people voted for Trump are not religious, but one cannot deny that the large majority of the evangelical Christians in America voted for someone who embodies what they are supposed to hate. That is a fact. Why religion can thus be at least somewhat faulted for Trump is that it convinces people who would otherwise not support someone, to support someone.
Taking it another way, if the exact embodiment of my policy views existed, but was entirely antithetical to my personal moral beliefs, I could not vote for that person.
This brings us to the point you raise about religious people having the choice to either be hypocrites, or disenfranchise themselves. That's a false choice. The US upset system is incredibly resistant to change, but that doesnt mean one should not try to do so.
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:Shofercia wrote:
That depends on the religion, but most religious people I know tend to keep religion and politics separate.
I was talking more historically. Modern Christianity has certainly been declawed by 400 years of secular thinking and the separation of church and state, but Christianity historically is against Democracy.
And also the American Revolution and French Revolution basically erased Christianity's autocratic tendencies by destroying that idea of the "divine right of kings."
by Punished UMN » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:32 am
by Region of Dwipantara » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:49 am
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:Doesn't Christianity have a history of being staunch against Democracy? What with the "divine right of kings" and whatnot.
1418-DZQ-02/1998-MAR-03
RADIO FREE SOUTHEAST ASIA | Charta Politica February polling: Pro-Khilafah 35.6% (PKI 28.7%, SI 6.9%); Pro-Republiken 64.4% (PAN 7.4%, PKB 13.2%, PRD 5.8%, PDDP 37.9%)
by Page » Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:34 am
by Geneviev » Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:46 am
Page wrote:American Evangelical Christianity stands behind the Republican Party with near unconditional loyalty, and despite Trump being a man who worships nothing but himself, he benefits as much as any other Republican.
by Vassenor » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:13 am
Ammostan wrote:As a Christian, I like Trump because he ISN'T constantly telling me that I am a stupid inbred racist troglodyte.
by Vassenor » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:20 am
by Geneviev » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:22 am
Ammostan wrote:As a Christian, I like Trump because he ISN'T constantly telling me that I am a stupid inbred racist troglodyte.
by Vassenor » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:23 am
by Borderlands of Rojava » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:24 am
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