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by Foril » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:26 am
Lyroidia wrote:"The People's Republic of Lyroidia supports this act, as maintaining transparency of the military's action in Lyroidia and maintaining a well-trusted press are valuable to the nation."
by Kenmoria » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:27 am
by Honeydewistania » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:02 am
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by Maowi » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:04 am
Honeydewistania wrote:Is someone able to determine if the category is correct? It doesn't really read as 'Education and Creativity' or 'A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts', although maybe I'm just dumb.
Also, are you campaigning for this?
by Honeydewistania » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:07 am
Maowi wrote:Honeydewistania wrote:Is someone able to determine if the category is correct? It doesn't really read as 'Education and Creativity' or 'A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts', although maybe I'm just dumb.
Also, are you campaigning for this?
OOC: I'm helping Fori out with an API campaign for this because he doesn't have access to a device to leave running for long enough. Also, I'm pretty sure the "Free Press" AoE for the Education and Creativity category is explicitly designed for this sort of thing.
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by Tinfect » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:35 am
Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
by Mathuvan Union » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:25 am
Honeydewistania wrote:Is someone able to determine if the category is correct? It doesn't really read as 'Education and Creativity' or 'A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts', although maybe I'm just dumb.
Also, are you campaigning for this?
by Ardiveds » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:35 am
Mathuvan Union wrote:Honeydewistania wrote:Is someone able to determine if the category is correct? It doesn't really read as 'Education and Creativity' or 'A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts', although maybe I'm just dumb.
Also, are you campaigning for this?
OOC: it's subset it Free Press, so presumably its the correct category. journalism is a art
by Mathuvan Union » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:53 am
by Owarinai » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:02 am
by Maowi » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:29 am
Tinfect wrote:"The legislation continues to mandate that Member-States allow Civilians to deliberately endanger themselves and the lives of military personnel by wandering freely about active warzones. The Imperium is opposed, as would be any Member-State with genuine concern for the lives of either group."
by Foril » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:53 am
Owarinai wrote:You can rest assured that The People's Republic of Owarinai will fully support this proposal. The fact that such a proposal haven't been passed in the past is honestly astonishing.
With regards, The People's Republic of Owarinai
by Flying Eagles » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:50 pm
by Araraukar » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:23 pm
Flying Eagles wrote:Transparency is vital in war
the opponents to this resolution are likely just trying to deflect from undesirable acts committed by their military
Anyways, this is a free world, and if a journalist wants to be dumb and get themselves killed, that's not our business.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Kenmoria » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:46 pm
by Maowi » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:29 pm
Araraukar wrote:"I am sure that whatever enemies you might go into war with, will thank you for your journalists leaking all your troop movements to the international media."
Kenmoria wrote:“Clause 4d is a rather huge loophole. A journalist going almost anywhere will harm militaristic activities to at least some extent, since that is the tradeoff that is made: between the effectiveness of soldiers and freedom of information. Because this makes the proposal less useful than it could otherwise be, I won’t be supporting the legislation at this time.”
by Foril » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:20 pm
Flying Eagles wrote:We support in full. Transparency is vital in war; the opponents to this resolution are likely just trying to deflect from undesirable acts committed by their military. Anyways, this is a free world, and if a journalist wants to be dumb and get themselves killed, that's not our business.
Kenmoria wrote:“Clause 4d is a rather huge loophole. A journalist going almost anywhere will harm militaristic activities to at least some extent, since that is the tradeoff that is made: between the effectiveness of soldiers and freedom of information. Because this makes the proposal less useful than it could otherwise be, I won’t be supporting the legislation at this time.”
by Tinfect » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:32 pm
Maowi wrote:"In the course of their work, wartime journalists carry out a valuable task for any developed society, and I believe the exemptions specified in the proposal amply safeguard the military personnel involved. If citizens are permitted to put their lives very much on the line to further a state's military interests, I do not see the distinction that should make it impermissible for citizens to risk their lives to provide the similarly valuable service of wartime coverage."
Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
by Maowi » Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:43 am
Tinfect wrote:"What possible task could they carry out that could not be handled though means that do not put Imperial lives at risk, Ambassador? How is it so valuable if the Imperium has done without it for hundreds of years? Soldiers are specifically trained to perform a service to the Imperium, and intentionally deployed to fulfill that service. Any random civilian declaring themselves a journalist is neither, and should not be anywhere near a battlefield for any reason. The Imperium is fully capable of handling reporting through established Military and Civil Oversight channels.
We - er, Imperial Soldiers, have an absolute obligation to protect Civilian lives on a warzone. It is illegal for us to allow citizens to wander them freely, and it is illegal for us not to provide military escort and protection for citizens stuck in battlefields. Any reasonable country would do the same; I don't see why having any regard for Civilian and military lives is considered unreasonable by you foreigners."
by Refuge Isle » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:42 am
Kenmoria wrote:“Clause 4d is a rather huge loophole. A journalist going almost anywhere will harm militaristic activities to at least some extent, since that is the tradeoff that is made: between the effectiveness of soldiers and freedom of information. Because this makes the proposal less useful than it could otherwise be, I won’t be supporting the legislation at this time.”
by Foril » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:55 pm
Refuge Isle wrote:This resolution seems to try to grant two abilities that arguably already existed in most people's nations:"Wartime journalists must be allowed freedom of movement in war zones and will not be denied access to an area to report on events there"
and"Wartime journalists may report on any activity that occurs within a war zone"
The entire rest of the resolution just talks about when those shouldn't apply. What constitutes espionage, what can be considered a weapon, and who is to decide these things? Presumably the government of the country the journalist is in, right? Can a government official or military officer take a screwdriver out of my camera van and call it a weapon while saying my reporting was spying on the state? Seems like a pretty big concern.Kenmoria wrote:“Clause 4d is a rather huge loophole. A journalist going almost anywhere will harm militaristic activities to at least some extent, since that is the tradeoff that is made: between the effectiveness of soldiers and freedom of information. Because this makes the proposal less useful than it could otherwise be, I won’t be supporting the legislation at this time.”
I feel the same way about 4d as I do with Clause 3:"3. Wartime journalists may report on any activity that occurs within a war zone, unless reporting on such activities could lead to loss of life or property, harm to individuals or property, or the jeopardisation of military efforts."
So, in my mind, journalism is necessary to tell people about what's happening. The most important pieces of information in those circumstances are going to be the ones that indicate wrongdoing or report threats to civilian lives and such. Journalism in the category of reporting "wrongdoing and threats to civilian lives" is also going to be in the category of "jeopardisation of military efforts" if a warring government feels like their casual atrocities being reported creates a vulnerability war operations. If I were a totalitarian regime trying to carry out a genocide, I don't think I'd be concerned by this resolution, because I can still call on a vague argument about military goals to lock out reporters.
I'm just not sure if this resolution provides any measurable benefit to journalists.
by Kenmoria » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:26 am
Foril wrote:Refuge Isle wrote:This resolution seems to try to grant two abilities that arguably already existed in most people's nations:"Wartime journalists must be allowed freedom of movement in war zones and will not be denied access to an area to report on events there"
and"Wartime journalists may report on any activity that occurs within a war zone"
The entire rest of the resolution just talks about when those shouldn't apply. What constitutes espionage, what can be considered a weapon, and who is to decide these things? Presumably the government of the country the journalist is in, right? Can a government official or military officer take a screwdriver out of my camera van and call it a weapon while saying my reporting was spying on the state? Seems like a pretty big concern.
I feel the same way about 4d as I do with Clause 3:"3. Wartime journalists may report on any activity that occurs within a war zone, unless reporting on such activities could lead to loss of life or property, harm to individuals or property, or the jeopardisation of military efforts."
So, in my mind, journalism is necessary to tell people about what's happening. The most important pieces of information in those circumstances are going to be the ones that indicate wrongdoing or report threats to civilian lives and such. Journalism in the category of reporting "wrongdoing and threats to civilian lives" is also going to be in the category of "jeopardisation of military efforts" if a warring government feels like their casual atrocities being reported creates a vulnerability war operations. If I were a totalitarian regime trying to carry out a genocide, I don't think I'd be concerned by this resolution, because I can still call on a vague argument about military goals to lock out reporters.
I'm just not sure if this resolution provides any measurable benefit to journalists.
Many WA nations are dictatorships, which means that journalist protection in those countries are often low or nonexistent. Furthermore, even if only one nation benefits from this, I argue that it’ll still have a positive effect.
Furthermore, the WA resolution here (viewtopic.php?p=35834891#p35834891/) lists what the “WA definition” of espionage is, and nations cannot apply their own twisted definition without violating that.
I hope this answers your concerns, otherwise let me know and I’ll try and go further in depth.
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