Coronavirus Thread IV: Legends, Laments and Lockdowns

[Nobel Hobos 2]

There is a difference between anti-lockdown protesters and anti-police-violence protesters. The difference is that by spreading covid to protest lockdowns, the protesters were sabotaging the very thing they were protesting about. BLM protesters have since done far more damage to public health, but it has the quality of collateral damage not of sabotage.

Now I believe both groups have an equal right to protest. BLM people have no more right to assault cops because cops are what they're protesting about, than anti-lockdown protesters had a right to injure public health. But protests must always account for perceptions of the public, the whole point is to change those in the protesters' favor. Both kinds of protest should have organized and trained to protest in a less dangerous way.

[Galloism]

Precisely. It was well known people would die and suffer from those lockdowns but the benefit was considered worth the cost at the time they were implemented...it was a purely utilitarian decision. Now that we know more it is clear these lockdowns were a mistake it is unlikely they will be revived.

Show us the evidence then. Show us the people protesting for those reasons.

Here's people protesting they want to go back to work:

https://www.moodyonthemarket.com/protes ... k-to-work/

It's not because everyone loves working. It's because of this:

In St. Clair Shores, about a half-hour from Midtown Detroit, Renee Ansell and her family were grappling with the abrupt changes firsthand. Her husband, a local chef, hasn’t been able to work because no one’s dining out while covid-19 ravages Detroit, one of the worst hit in the country. Ansell said she filed for unemployment on her partner’s behalf in late March, only to be stymied by technical glitches and delays that have prevented them from receiving their first check.
Absent that aid, Ansell said she was worried about caring for her husband and three kids and paying the family’s bills and buying groceries. “People are going to be broke,” she said. “Blue-collar people around here don’t have a huge savings account.”

The high degree of joblessness has had a cascading effect. With businesses shuttered, and people out of a paycheck, shopping has slowed dramatically. That has heavily depressed income and sales taxes, local leaders say, threatening budgets. And far fewer tourists are traveling to Michigan, staying in hotels and visiting Grand Rapids on the west side of the state, where, typically, the local breweries are hot spots that generate economic activity for the region, said Mark Washington, the city’s manager.

...

State leaders may have no choice but to slash programs, many of which were already funded at reduced levels from the last economic downturn. Michigan also may have to cut back on the revenue it shares with cities such as Detroit and Flint, even as those cash-strapped local governments similarly struggle with the economic fallout caused by the coronavirus.

The blueprint would slash some city workers’ hours and tap funds meant to clean up dilapidated, abandoned houses and urban blight to stave off a budget catastrophe. Anything short of a balanced budget would see the state reassume control of Detroit’s finances, a loss of autonomy Duggan pledged to avoid.

...

Abby Finn, nutrition programs manager at Senior Services of Southwest Michigan, said she has witnessed the economic downturn firsthand. The number of housebound senior citizens requesting meal delivery from Meals on Wheels in her city, Kalamazoo, has jumped to about 170 in the past month, more than triple what it used to be.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... ronavirus/

These circumstances aren't unique. People weren't protesting "let us go back to work" because they just love waiting tables or manufacturing cars. It's because they were facing starvation.

You can see this in how food insecurity has increased in the US.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front ... n-america/

These people are facing bankruptcy and starvation Vassenor. And we vilified them for being upset about it.

[Neutraligon]

Show us the evidence then. Show us the people protesting for those reasons.

Here's people protesting they want to go back to work:

https://www.moodyonthemarket.com/protes ... k-to-work/

It's not because everyone loves working. It's because of this:

In St. Clair Shores, about a half-hour from Midtown Detroit, Renee Ansell and her family were grappling with the abrupt changes firsthand. Her husband, a local chef, hasn’t been able to work because no one’s dining out while covid-19 ravages Detroit, one of the worst hit in the country. Ansell said she filed for unemployment on her partner’s behalf in late March, only to be stymied by technical glitches and delays that have prevented them from receiving their first check.
Absent that aid, Ansell said she was worried about caring for her husband and three kids and paying the family’s bills and buying groceries. “People are going to be broke,” she said. “Blue-collar people around here don’t have a huge savings account.”

The high degree of joblessness has had a cascading effect. With businesses shuttered, and people out of a paycheck, shopping has slowed dramatically. That has heavily depressed income and sales taxes, local leaders say, threatening budgets. And far fewer tourists are traveling to Michigan, staying in hotels and visiting Grand Rapids on the west side of the state, where, typically, the local breweries are hot spots that generate economic activity for the region, said Mark Washington, the city’s manager.

...

State leaders may have no choice but to slash programs, many of which were already funded at reduced levels from the last economic downturn. Michigan also may have to cut back on the revenue it shares with cities such as Detroit and Flint, even as those cash-strapped local governments similarly struggle with the economic fallout caused by the coronavirus.

The blueprint would slash some city workers’ hours and tap funds meant to clean up dilapidated, abandoned houses and urban blight to stave off a budget catastrophe. Anything short of a balanced budget would see the state reassume control of Detroit’s finances, a loss of autonomy Duggan pledged to avoid.

...

Abby Finn, nutrition programs manager at Senior Services of Southwest Michigan, said she has witnessed the economic downturn firsthand. The number of housebound senior citizens requesting meal delivery from Meals on Wheels in her city, Kalamazoo, has jumped to about 170 in the past month, more than triple what it used to be.

These circumstances aren't unique. People weren't protesting "let us go back to work" because they just love waiting tables or manufacturing cars. It's because they were facing starvation.

You can see this in how food insecurity has increased in the US.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front ... n-america/

e basically learned that the US paycheck from the federal government was not sufficient to cover multiple months of lockdown, shock.

[Galloism]

e basically learned that the US paycheck from the federal government was not sufficient to cover multiple months of lockdown, shock.

Well and some states (looking at you Michigan) so bungled their unemployment system response it was unreal. The system that was supposed to catch these folks - and even got a huge injection of cash to do so from Congress - got overwhelmed and failed.

[Post War America]

e basically learned that the US paycheck from the federal government was not sufficient to cover multiple months of lockdown, shock.

Well and some states (looking at you Michigan) so bungled their unemployment system response it was unreal. The system that was supposed to catch these folks - and even got a huge injection of cash to do so from Congress - got overwhelmed and failed.

Then that is the problem, not necessarily that lockdowns are happening. Alternatively, one could note that employment as a requirement for survival, is and will continue to be a significant problem that ought to be protested.

[Neutraligon]

e basically learned that the US paycheck from the federal government was not sufficient to cover multiple months of lockdown, shock.

Well and some states (looking at you Michigan) so bungled their unemployment system response it was unreal. The system that was supposed to catch these folks - and even got a huge injection of cash to do so from Congress - got overwhelmed and failed.

That too. There was some relief in some places as states prevented evictions and the like, or had places set up payment plans, but that does not do much for food.

[Galloism]

Well and some states (looking at you Michigan) so bungled their unemployment system response it was unreal. The system that was supposed to catch these folks - and even got a huge injection of cash to do so from Congress - got overwhelmed and failed.

Then that is the problem, not necessarily that lockdowns are happening. Alternatively, one could note that employment as a requirement for survival, is and will continue to be a significant problem that ought to be protested.

There's multiple things that led to the protests, just as there's multiple things that led to the current protests.

But, and this was the point back at the beginning, the narrative about whether protest is a good thing or foolish thing literally turned on a dime in a matter of days with no new scientific data based largely on who was doing the protesting.

Which completely burns the credibility of basically anyone talking about what needs to be done about Covid. We have a serious problem and a public who we just convinced to change the channel, and now we can't reach them.

[Neutraligon]

Then that is the problem, not necessarily that lockdowns are happening. Alternatively, one could note that employment as a requirement for survival, is and will continue to be a significant problem that ought to be protested.

There's multiple things that led to the protests, just as there's multiple things that led to the current protests.

But, and this was the point back at the beginning, the narrative about whether protest is a good thing or foolish thing literally turned on a dime in a matter of days with no new scientific data based largely on who was doing the protesting.

Which completely burns the credibility of basically anyone talking about what needs to be done about Covid. We have a serious problem and a public who we just convinced to change the channel, and now we can't reach them.

Sigh, as soon as the protests (either) started I was like well there goes the chance of cases continuing to decline.

[Valrifell]

There's multiple things that led to the protests, just as there's multiple things that led to the current protests.

But, and this was the point back at the beginning, the narrative about whether protest is a good thing or foolish thing literally turned on a dime in a matter of days with no new scientific data based largely on who was doing the protesting.

Which completely burns the credibility of basically anyone talking about what needs to be done about Covid. We have a serious problem and a public who we just convinced to change the channel, and now we can't reach them.

Sigh, as soon as the protests (either) started I was like well there goes the chance of cases continuing to decline.

America simply can not resist framing every disaster in a partisan light. How we made a global pandemic work in the "Democrat vs. Republican" paradigm I'll never fully understand.

[Post War America]

Sigh, as soon as the protests (either) started I was like well there goes the chance of cases continuing to decline.

America simply can not resist framing every disaster in a partisan light. How we made a global pandemic work in the "Democrat vs. Republican" paradigm I'll never fully understand.

Largely because one party is capitalist to the extreme of total disregard for human life, and the other is more in line with other neoliberals in the world.

[Galloism]

There's multiple things that led to the protests, just as there's multiple things that led to the current protests.

But, and this was the point back at the beginning, the narrative about whether protest is a good thing or foolish thing literally turned on a dime in a matter of days with no new scientific data based largely on who was doing the protesting.

Which completely burns the credibility of basically anyone talking about what needs to be done about Covid. We have a serious problem and a public who we just convinced to change the channel, and now we can't reach them.

Sigh, as soon as the protests (either) started I was like well there goes the chance of cases continuing to decline.

Well yes, but you're The Batman, not a blind partisan.

[San Lumen]

https://abc7ny.com/6263232/?ex_cid=TA_W ... e=facebook

The iconic Stonewall Inn in Manhattan where the lgbt rights movement was born in 1969 is in danger of closing due to the pandemic. I really hope this doesn’t happen

[Fartsniffage]

Does everyone remember how we hated China for blatantly lying about Covid numbers? We the US has now had Trump admit he told staff to test less so fewer cases would be found and Florida is obviously fudging their numbers.

Time to get our hate on for the USA?

[The Black Forrest]

https://abc7ny.com/6263232/?ex_cid=TA_WABC_FB&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

The iconic Stonewall Inn in Manhattan where the lgbt rights movement was born in 1969 is in danger of closing due to the pandemic. I really hope this doesn’t happen

Hmmm? How is/was the food? I am guessing not well?

A bookstore in my area faced the same thing. A gofundme campaign raised over 300K.....

[Stylan]

Does everyone remember how we hated China for blatantly lying about Covid numbers? We the US has now had Trump admit he told staff to test less so fewer cases would be found and Florida is obviously fudging their numbers.

Time to get our hate on for the USA?

The China hate and rampant sinophobia fucking disgusts me. It's incredibly obvious the U.S. establishment wants to crush China as China is clearly on track to overtaking the U.S. as the leading world power, which could lead to a socialist world.

China in the case of Coronavirus messed up, yes, but so did every other fucking country.

[Cisairse]

Plenty of restaurants only survive by paying their employees less than minimum wage. Maybe they should stop doing that and their employees will care about the wellbeing of their business.

Except, many people have tried to get servers in Restaurants to want to switch to al giving wage and get rid of tipping, that didn't go over well with them. In your standard dine-in joint, a Server can make upwards of around $19 an hour in unclaimed Cash Tips. If you want those same Restaurants to pay a "living wage", they have to raise prices. They raise prices, customers don't come. Customers don't come, you are still in the same boat as you were beforehand. Because, as it stands now in the United States, your average diner will NOT go to a place that they cannot afford. And many places will not survive that way.

And I will tell you, where I work is known for Burgers. We use quality beef for the burgers and that makes them cost (as of right now) $5.99 for a plain burger. That's no cheese, no dressing, no onions, nothing. Just meat and bun.

If you want to get rid of TIpping and pay a "living wage", that price would go up at least another $3. And, do you know anyone that would pay nearly $9 for a burger, with nothing on it? I"m sure that you will not be able to find anyone for that, since they can go right down the street and get a very low quality burger from Burger King or McDonalds for $2.

This logic makes no sense. If a server is getting paid upwards of $19 an hour (and I know good servers who make much more than that), then that means their labor is worth that much. Which means they should be paid that much. Which means that the patrons of the business should be (and, obviously, are) paying that business enough to support that wage.

It makes no fucking sense to say that customers would be okay paying $7 for a burger and $2 for a tip, but would not be okay paying $9 for a burger. In fact, this is already how it works in upscale restaurants (where tips are generally included as part of the bill). The only patrons you would lose are patrons who were going to skimp on tips anyway, which is obviously why abolition of the tipping system is desirable in the first place.

[Post War America]

Except, many people have tried to get servers in Restaurants to want to switch to al giving wage and get rid of tipping, that didn't go over well with them. In your standard dine-in joint, a Server can make upwards of around $19 an hour in unclaimed Cash Tips. If you want those same Restaurants to pay a "living wage", they have to raise prices. They raise prices, customers don't come. Customers don't come, you are still in the same boat as you were beforehand. Because, as it stands now in the United States, your average diner will NOT go to a place that they cannot afford. And many places will not survive that way.

And I will tell you, where I work is known for Burgers. We use quality beef for the burgers and that makes them cost (as of right now) $5.99 for a plain burger. That's no cheese, no dressing, no onions, nothing. Just meat and bun.

If you want to get rid of TIpping and pay a "living wage", that price would go up at least another $3. And, do you know anyone that would pay nearly $9 for a burger, with nothing on it? I"m sure that you will not be able to find anyone for that, since they can go right down the street and get a very low quality burger from Burger King or McDonalds for $2.

This logic makes no sense. If a server is getting paid upwards of $19 an hour (and I know good servers who make much more than that), then that means their labor is worth that much. Which means they should be paid that much. Which means that the patrons of the business should be (and, obviously, are) paying that business enough to support that wage.

It makes no fucking sense to say that customers would be okay paying $7 for a burger and $2 for a tip, but would not be okay paying $9 for a burger. In fact, this is already how it works in upscale restaurants (where tips are generally included as part of the bill). The only patrons you would lose are patrons who were going to skimp on tips anyway, which is obviously why abolition of the tipping system is desirable in the first place.

Some very influential customers however, like having the option of taking out their frustration on restaurant workers, by threatening the tips they rely on to survive. If prices were raised to ensure that what would be tips are turned into guaranteed wages, the option to dick people over would be gone.

[Cisairse]

This logic makes no sense. If a server is getting paid upwards of $19 an hour (and I know good servers who make much more than that), then that means their labor is worth that much. Which means they should be paid that much. Which means that the patrons of the business should be (and, obviously, are) paying that business enough to support that wage.

It makes no fucking sense to say that customers would be okay paying $7 for a burger and $2 for a tip, but would not be okay paying $9 for a burger. In fact, this is already how it works in upscale restaurants (where tips are generally included as part of the bill). The only patrons you would lose are patrons who were going to skimp on tips anyway, which is obviously why abolition of the tipping system is desirable in the first place.

Some very influential customers however, like having the option of taking out their frustration on restaurant workers, by threatening the tips they rely on to survive. If prices were raised to ensure that what would be tips are turned into guaranteed wages, the option to dick people over would be gone.

Exactly. This is, obviously, a very desirable outcome.

[No State Here]

[Rojava Free State]

(Image)

He who controls the timelines controls the future.

[Greed and Death]

(Image)

He who controls the timelines controls the future.

/GM
Help the pandemic balancing patch has broke then game.

[Celritannia]

Well, places opening up too quickly are slowly seeing new cases.

[Greed and Death]

Well, places opening up too quickly are slowly seeing new cases.

And the protests, and now the political rallies.

[Celritannia]

Well, places opening up too quickly are slowly seeing new cases.

And the protests, and now the political rallies.

The protesters here were wearing masks.

[Kannap]

As rumored last week, Governor Cooper mandates face masks when in public statewide

I think this is a great thing and is basically the compromise between reopening and locking down. If we're going to be in public and around each other, we should all be wearing masks