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Coronavirus Thread IV: Legends, Laments and Lockdowns

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Have you or anyone in your vincinity been affected by COVID-19?

I don't know anyone who has been diagnosed with COVID-19
273
45%
I know someone was diagnosed with COVID-19
141
23%
Someone very close to me was diagnosed with COVID-19
35
6%
I know someone who was hospitalized with COVID-19
52
9%
Someone very close to me was hospitalized with COVID-19
25
4%
I was diagnosed with COVID-19
20
3%
I was hospitalized with COVID-19
8
1%
I don't know/unsure/other
49
8%
 
Total votes : 603

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu May 14, 2020 10:56 pm

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Don't talk to the banana. People will think you're crazy.


OK.....i see now

The banana person is a spammer who keeps reincarnating with various banana themed nations. Please don't reply to spammers. Giving them attention is what they want
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Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Thu May 14, 2020 10:59 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Well my position remains that customers should be allowed to bring their own re-usable containers. Service staff should assume they're unclean JUST LIKE THEY SHOULD WITH CASH. If changing their gloves is an effort for them that's just too bad.

Staff should be washing their hands or changing their gloves every time they handle cash from a customer. Yes or no?

Yes. So what about scoops? You haven't addressed scoops. Or tongs or whatever is used to transport food into the container? They would get more contaminated than the server's hands ever would. And how does this work with deliveries.

Further, ideally, the person handling cash would be a different individual to the one serving food. The person/s handling cash shouldn't be touching food


One person is responsible for collecting money, one person is responsible for packaging, and another person is responsible for delivering packaged food to customers.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu May 14, 2020 11:01 pm

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Yes. So what about scoops? You haven't addressed scoops. Or tongs or whatever is used to transport food into the container? They would get more contaminated than the server's hands ever would. And how does this work with deliveries.

Further, ideally, the person handling cash would be a different individual to the one serving food. The person/s handling cash shouldn't be touching food


One person is responsible for collecting money, one person is responsible for packaging, and another person is responsible for delivering packaged food to customers.

Correct. The person who handles cash doesn't touch the food. Which means that Nobel Hobos' point about paying cash then touching food is wrong (at least, in theory), because those tasks are handled by two separate persons. But I meant about delivery was, if we ban plastic containers, how do you package food for delivery?
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Thu May 14, 2020 11:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Neutraligon » Thu May 14, 2020 11:02 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
OK.....i see now

The banana person is a spammer who keeps reincarnating with various banana themed nations. Please don't reply to spammers. Giving them attention is what they want

He shows up, one of us gets to kill his various nations for the mod olympics and delete all his posts which takes maybe 10 second, rinse, repeat.
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Thu May 14, 2020 11:04 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:The banana person is a spammer who keeps reincarnating with various banana themed nations. Please don't reply to spammers. Giving them attention is what they want

He shows up, one of us gets to kill his various nations for the mod olympics and delete all his posts which takes maybe 10 second, rinse, repeat.

How is this cat making eighteen threads and I periodically have to identify all the pictures with a plane in it?


...this is probably not the place to ask that question.
Everything for the cat.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu May 14, 2020 11:06 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:He shows up, one of us gets to kill his various nations for the mod olympics and delete all his posts which takes maybe 10 second, rinse, repeat.

How is this cat making eighteen threads and I periodically have to identify all the pictures with a plane in it?


...this is probably not the place to ask that question.

Nope. We have a whole thread dedicated to that re-capture crap:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=485011
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Thu May 14, 2020 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Thu May 14, 2020 11:09 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:He shows up, one of us gets to kill his various nations for the mod olympics and delete all his posts which takes maybe 10 second, rinse, repeat.

How is this cat making eighteen threads and I periodically have to identify all the pictures with a plane in it?


...this is probably not the place to ask that question.

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu May 14, 2020 11:10 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Well my position remains that customers should be allowed to bring their own re-usable containers. Service staff should assume they're unclean JUST LIKE THEY SHOULD WITH CASH. If changing their gloves is an effort for them that's just too bad.

Staff should be washing their hands or changing their gloves every time they handle cash from a customer. Yes or no?

Yes.


Let's just hear that again. YES. Staff already make accommodations for customers wanting to use cash. They could make the same accommodation for having to physically handle their container.

So what about scoops? You haven't addressed scoops. Or tongs or whatever is used to transport food into the container? They would get more contaminated than the server's hands ever would.


It's apparently impossible to clean a scoop. And apparently impossible to scoop food without touching the container.

I've never worked in the industry so I guess I'll just have to take your word for those things.

And how does this work with deliveries.


Deliveries would have to be in the shop provided container. Just make sure the customer is paying the 50c or whatever, for the container, and we're good.


Further, ideally, the person handling cash would be a different individual to the one serving food


Good idea. Of course you won't require it by law ... how about requiring that OR washing hands every time, by law?

On a slightly different note, how about requiring an extra charge for the use of cash? To discourage customers from doing such a dirty thing which requires extra effort by staff ..?
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Shanghai industrial complex
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Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Thu May 14, 2020 11:11 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
One person is responsible for collecting money, one person is responsible for packaging, and another person is responsible for delivering packaged food to customers.

Correct. The person who handles cash doesn't touch the food. Which means that Noble Hobo's point about paying cash then touching food is wrong, because those tasks are handled by two separate persons. But I meant about delivery was, if we ban plastic containers, how do you package food for delivery?

I found a kind of corn colored lunch box when I asked for take out recently. I searched and found that it turned out to be a degradable lunch box.It's made of pulp and coated inside, but it feels like a plastic lunch box, but it's heavier.Of course, there are all kinds of paper lunch boxes
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu May 14, 2020 11:13 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:He shows up, one of us gets to kill his various nations for the mod olympics and delete all his posts which takes maybe 10 second, rinse, repeat.

How is this cat making eighteen threads and I periodically have to identify all the pictures with a plane in it?


Perhaps because you get cats and bananas confused ?
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No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu May 14, 2020 11:17 pm

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Yes. So what about scoops? You haven't addressed scoops. Or tongs or whatever is used to transport food into the container? They would get more contaminated than the server's hands ever would. And how does this work with deliveries.

Further, ideally, the person handling cash would be a different individual to the one serving food. The person/s handling cash shouldn't be touching food


One person is responsible for collecting money, one person is responsible for packaging, and another person is responsible for delivering packaged food to customers.


That's a McDonalds or something. Maybe all "take away" in China is built on that scale and you don't have any with 1 person serving and 1 person cooking.

Employing a third person just to handle money isn't really an option for the little places. They'd much rather not take cash at all.
Also, AiliAiliA
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu May 14, 2020 11:20 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Yes.


Let's just hear that again. YES. Staff already make accommodations for customers wanting to use cash. They could make the same accommodation for having to physically handle their container.

Easier said than done

So what about scoops? You haven't addressed scoops. Or tongs or whatever is used to transport food into the container? They would get more contaminated than the server's hands ever would.


It's apparently impossible to clean a scoop. And apparently impossible to scoop food without touching the container.

Not impossible, but extremely impractical. Especially if you're busy. Also, soap ain't free

I've never worked in the industry so I guess I'll just have to take your word for those things.

And how does this work with deliveries.


Deliveries would have to be in the shop provided container. Just make sure the customer is paying the 50c or whatever, for the container, and we're good.

What's the point in that? You're using the same amount of plastic either way, but now a person is financially worse off. Especially if they're poor and can only afford delivery as an occasional treat


Further, ideally, the person handling cash would be a different individual to the one serving food


Good idea. Of course you won't require it by law ... how about requiring that OR washing hands every time, by law?

It is the law to wash your hands. Technically you're supposed to wash after every single time you touch your fact. EVERY SINGLE TIME. Your nose itches and you scratch it? Time to wash your hands. By law.

IIRC, you are supposed to have a different person who handles food to the person who handles cash, but I might not remember, so don't quote me on that

On a slightly different note, how about requiring an extra charge for the use of cash? To discourage customers from doing such a dirty thing which requires extra effort by staff ..?

Wow, you really don't know anything about the industry. As someone who's studied hospitality. Let's just say, that's a dumb idea at best...
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu May 14, 2020 11:21 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
One person is responsible for collecting money, one person is responsible for packaging, and another person is responsible for delivering packaged food to customers.


That's a McDonalds or something. Maybe all "take away" in China is built on that scale and you don't have any with 1 person serving and 1 person cooking.

Employing a third person just to handle money isn't really an option for the little places. They'd much rather not take cash at all.

Au Contraire. Most little places are cash only.
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Thu May 14, 2020 11:22 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
That's a McDonalds or something. Maybe all "take away" in China is built on that scale and you don't have any with 1 person serving and 1 person cooking.

Employing a third person just to handle money isn't really an option for the little places. They'd much rather not take cash at all.

Au Contraire. Most little places are cash only.

I've always wondered why that is. Is it because that cash directly goes into funding the business?
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu May 14, 2020 11:24 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
One person is responsible for collecting money, one person is responsible for packaging, and another person is responsible for delivering packaged food to customers.


That's a McDonalds or something. Maybe all "take away" in China is built on that scale and you don't have any with 1 person serving and 1 person cooking.

Nope. Basic HACCP requirements. HACCP is the minimum global standard. In most countries, HACCP is the minimum standard to avoid getting your restaurant shut by the health inspector.
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Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Thu May 14, 2020 11:25 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
One person is responsible for collecting money, one person is responsible for packaging, and another person is responsible for delivering packaged food to customers.


That's a McDonalds or something. Maybe all "take away" in China is built on that scale and you don't have any with 1 person serving and 1 person cooking.

Employing a third person just to handle money isn't really an option for the little places. They'd much rather not take cash at all.



Emmm...Well . Usually we don't use cash, but pay by mobile phone.Just stick a QR code on the door, and the owner will put the goods on the table at the door If there's only one person in the store.I hate cash and I don't need cash now

However, I am not happy that KFC and McDonald's nearby have closed the cash register recently and only allow me to order food with app.I had to do operation myself, and before that I just had to say what I wanted to eat.
Last edited by Shanghai industrial complex on Thu May 14, 2020 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shanghai industrial complex
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Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Thu May 14, 2020 11:27 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
That's a McDonalds or something. Maybe all "take away" in China is built on that scale and you don't have any with 1 person serving and 1 person cooking.

Nope. Basic HACCP requirements. HACCP is the minimum global standard. In most countries, HACCP is the minimum standard to avoid getting your restaurant shut by the health inspector.

Does the standard also stipulate the number of employees?
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu May 14, 2020 11:34 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:Wow, you really don't know anything about the industry. As someone who's studied hospitality. Let's just say, that's a dumb idea at best...


And now I think we're done debating.

I conceded most of your points.

I did not concede your main claim, that customer reusable containers should not be allowed.

I put my own view that they should be allowed (not mind you, that shops be required to accept them), AND that there should be a charge for any disposable container.

I didn't bother making the argument that reusable plastic is pollution and should be discouraged, because plainly you don't give a fuck about pollution. Not interested, right?

With that last note I was trying to return our conversation to something even vaguely related to covid-19.

Do you have any alternative way to discourage customers from using cash? Or are we just going to rely on food staff to do what you admit the general public doesn't ...
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu May 14, 2020 11:34 pm

Atheris wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Au Contraire. Most little places are cash only.

I've always wondered why that is. Is it because that cash directly goes into funding the business?

Most customers like to pay in cash. You don't have to pay credit card fees. You don't have to pay debit card fees. The fees are killers for small businesses, and arguably, a form of extortion. You can still use cash if the electrical system fails. Cash is immediate. Sometimes you have to wait a couple business days for a card transaction to process, whilst cash is immediate. Cash is much faster. You pay, get your change, you're done. Prevents card fraud. You have to have enough credit card terminals to process every customer, and depending on the ratio of customers who pay by card, it becomes expensive. You have to get someone to actually pick up the terminal, bring it to you, wait for the card to process, then take it to the next customer. With credit cards, the number of transactions is limited by the number of terminals you have, how much battery is remaining, and how quickly you can transport them from one customer to another. Cash has no limitation. Ultimately, it's cheaper and easier.

Plus, if you're the kind to disobey the law, cash is good for tax avoidance and allows you to have under-the-table staff
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Thu May 14, 2020 11:35 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Atheris wrote:I've always wondered why that is. Is it because that cash directly goes into funding the business?

Most customers like to pay in cash. You don't have to pay credit card fees. You don't have to pay debit card fees. The fees are killers for small businesses, and arguably, a form of extortion. You can still use cash if the electrical system fails. Cash is immediate. Sometimes you have to wait a couple business days for a card transaction to process, whilst cash is immediate. Cash is much faster. You pay, get your change, you're done. Prevents card fraud. You have to have enough credit card terminals to process every customer, and depending on the ratio of customers who pay by card, it becomes expensive. You have to get someone to actually pick up the terminal, bring it to you, wait for the card to process, then take it to the next customer. With credit cards, the number of transactions is limited by the number of terminals you have, how much battery is remaining, and how quickly you can transport them from one customer to another. Cash has no limitation. Ultimately, it's cheaper and easier.

Plus, if you're the kind to disobey the law, cash is good for tax avoidance and allows you to have under-the-table staff

Ah, thank you. I'm not the kind of person that likes to go shopping offline so I don't know much about all the ways of payment.

As for that last part, that's good to know.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu May 14, 2020 11:37 pm

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
That's a McDonalds or something. Maybe all "take away" in China is built on that scale and you don't have any with 1 person serving and 1 person cooking.

Employing a third person just to handle money isn't really an option for the little places. They'd much rather not take cash at all.



Emmm...Well . Usually we don't use cash, but pay by mobile phone.Just stick a QR code on the door, and the owner will put the goods on the table at the door If there's only one person in the store.I hate cash and I don't need cash now

However, I am not happy that KFC and McDonald's nearby have closed the cash register recently and only allow me to order food with app.I had to do operation myself, and before that I just had to say what I wanted to eat.


I almost always use cash, but I recognize that it's a luxury I'm not entitled to. If a store will only take card, that's fair enough.

Dunno what I'll do when stores stop even taking cards and I can only pay with a phone. Not comfortable with it!
Also, AiliAiliA
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High rate of Nobel prizes and other academic achievements.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu May 14, 2020 11:37 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Wow, you really don't know anything about the industry. As someone who's studied hospitality. Let's just say, that's a dumb idea at best...


And now I think we're done debating.

I conceded most of your points.

I did not concede your main claim, that customer reusable containers should not be allowed.

I put my own view that they should be allowed (not mind you, that shops be required to accept them), AND that there should be a charge for any disposable container.

I didn't bother making the argument that reusable plastic is pollution and should be discouraged, because plainly you don't give a fuck about pollution. Not interested, right?

With that last note I was trying to return our conversation to something even vaguely related to covid-19.

Do you have any alternative way to discourage customers from using cash? Or are we just going to rely on food staff to do what you admit the general public doesn't ...

Would you be interested if I were to create a new thread?
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Green October Z
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Postby Green October Z » Thu May 14, 2020 11:38 pm

I really hope those people at Oxford really do manage to get their vaccine out by September. This has been going on too long.
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Shanghai industrial complex
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Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Thu May 14, 2020 11:38 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Do you have any alternative way to discourage customers from using cash? Or are we just going to rely on food staff to do what you admit the general public doesn't ...

In US,paypal or Apple pay? I also have a paypal
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Thu May 14, 2020 11:40 pm

Green October Z wrote:I really hope those people at Oxford really do manage to get their vaccine out by September. This has been going on too long.

If my school cancels extra-curricular activities and then reopens for September, I'm actually gonna pull Kristoph's breakdown from 4-4 but instead of screaming "WRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHHHTTT" I'm gonna scream "CCCCCCHHHHHHEEEESSSSSSSTTTEEEEERRRRRFFFFFIIIIIEEELLLLLDDDDDDD!"
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Ceranapis wrote:"Who needs a country when you can write Ace Attorney fan fiction?"
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Russell Crowe was the best Javert. You're just biased.
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Asexual and biromantic.
"To comment is human, to preview, divine." - Godot
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I write AA fanfiction. Fuck you if you judge me. Links in my factbook.
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