I am not metaphorical. I think they can inform one-another.
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by United Muscovite Nations » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:09 am
by Shanghai industrial complex » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:33 am
by Albrenia » Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:35 am
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:I am not metaphorical. I think they can inform one-another.
It is not recommended that you choose an atheist as an example. Maybe you should choose a person without religious belief.There is a clear difference. The former is against theism, while the latter just doesn't believe it
by Washington Resistance Army » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:16 am
Sundiata wrote:Jedi Council wrote:
The Catholic Church is an abhorrent institution which should have been excised from existence years ago.
The evil they have caused this world far outweighs any good they may have done.
While I don't necessarily condone the actions and words of every member of my church, I recognize that the Catholic Church stands for what is right.
by United Muscovite Nations » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:20 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Sundiata wrote:While I don't necessarily condone the actions and words of every member of my church, I recognize that the Catholic Church stands for what is right.
Idk man, up until a few hundred years ago the church seemingly had few qualms about getting up to shockingly non-Christlike behavior.
by Dogmeat » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:21 am
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:I am not metaphorical. I think they can inform one-another.
It is not recommended that you choose an atheist as an example. Maybe you should choose a person without religious belief.There is a clear difference. The former is against theism, while the latter just doesn't believe it
by Dogmeat » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:25 am
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Idk man, up until a few hundred years ago the church seemingly had few qualms about getting up to shockingly non-Christlike behavior.
I'm not sure that's quite fair, it kind of varies over the centuries, though your point I think remains intact.
by United Muscovite Nations » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:29 am
Dogmeat wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:I'm not sure that's quite fair, it kind of varies over the centuries, though your point I think remains intact.
That's sort of the point though. The Church continuously claims to know better then the rest of society what's right and wrong.
But when you look at it's record, it's always just behind societies current understanding of morality.
For instance, they renounced antisemitism and the charges of deicide against the Jewish people. But only 20 years after the holocaust.
by Dogmeat » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:34 am
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Dogmeat wrote:That's sort of the point though. The Church continuously claims to know better then the rest of society what's right and wrong.
But when you look at it's record, it's always just behind societies current understanding of morality.
For instance, they renounced antisemitism and the charges of deicide against the Jewish people. But only 20 years after the holocaust.
I don't think that's accurate either. If you look back at, say, the High Middle Ages and parts of the Early-Modern period, the RCC was well-ahead of society on moral and political issues.
by United Muscovite Nations » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:44 am
Dogmeat wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:I don't think that's accurate either. If you look back at, say, the High Middle Ages and parts of the Early-Modern period, the RCC was well-ahead of society on moral and political issues.
I don't know man. Crusading and weird Christ-sex affective-spirituality stuff are certainly novel, but I'm not sure if I'd call them "ahead" of society.
It is true that they worked to limit the effects of warfare by encouraging codes of conduct, but whether that was "ahead" of society or not is difficult to say, because they're the only ones writing about it.
by Tholosis » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:44 am
by Washington Resistance Army » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:00 am
by Shanghai industrial complex » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:13 am
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Dogmeat wrote:That's sort of the point though. The Church continuously claims to know better then the rest of society what's right and wrong.
But when you look at it's record, it's always just behind societies current understanding of morality.
For instance, they renounced antisemitism and the charges of deicide against the Jewish people. But only 20 years after the holocaust.
I don't think that's accurate either. If you look back at, say, the High Middle Ages and parts of the Early-Modern period, the RCC was well-ahead of society on moral and political issues.
by Shanghai industrial complex » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:35 am
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Dogmeat wrote:I don't know man. Crusading and weird Christ-sex affective-spirituality stuff are certainly novel, but I'm not sure if I'd call them "ahead" of society.
It is true that they worked to limit the effects of warfare by encouraging codes of conduct, but whether that was "ahead" of society or not is difficult to say, because they're the only ones writing about it.
Crusading aside, the Church also ran massive amounts of hospitals, charities, etc. (in fact the Black Death severely weakened the Church as most clergy died, as they took care of the sick). Moreover, Ecclesiastical Law required nobility to have certain economic conduct towards peasants which promoted a type of welfare that was more progressive than anything that secular law would mandate until the 19th century. Furthermore, the Church did not allow usury, which is still allowed today and results in massive economic hardship. Until the early-modern period, the Church worked to outlaw slavery (and continued to do so within Europe).
And in the early-modern period, it was often the Church which crushed the nobility, and many clergy quashed the abuses of lesser clergy (Cardinal Richelieu is a great example of this). I think it's telling that, throughout the period of the Church's power, people preferred to be tried by Church courts than secular courts, as far as which was more progressive.
by Washington Resistance Army » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:48 am
Shanghai industrial complex wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:Crusading aside, the Church also ran massive amounts of hospitals, charities, etc. (in fact the Black Death severely weakened the Church as most clergy died, as they took care of the sick). Moreover, Ecclesiastical Law required nobility to have certain economic conduct towards peasants which promoted a type of welfare that was more progressive than anything that secular law would mandate until the 19th century. Furthermore, the Church did not allow usury, which is still allowed today and results in massive economic hardship. Until the early-modern period, the Church worked to outlaw slavery (and continued to do so within Europe).
And in the early-modern period, it was often the Church which crushed the nobility, and many clergy quashed the abuses of lesser clergy (Cardinal Richelieu is a great example of this). I think it's telling that, throughout the period of the Church's power, people preferred to be tried by Church courts than secular courts, as far as which was more progressive.
Where did you learn your history?
That only means that the European church was stronger than the secular power at that time, not that it was more advanced.In 1073, Gregory VII believed that the church should also have the right to take charge of secular affairs, and tried to remove some king.After that, their struggle became more intense, but it was mainly the church that prevailed.
The power of the church is weak until the urbanization and economic development of Europe.First, the total failure of the Crusades in 200 years hit the prestige of the church.Then the Mongol western expedition and the Black Death. The church's property gradually became less important and the Renaissance liberated the mind.When the church weakened, Europe came out of the dark middle ages.Historians, Protestants, and the enlightenment all believed that RCC was responsible for the dark ages. Although their description is probably exaggerated because of hostile attitude.But it's not historical to regard RCC as a progressive force in the middle ages
by The Alma Mater » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:02 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Sundiata wrote:While I don't necessarily condone the actions and words of every member of my church, I recognize that the Catholic Church stands for what is right.
Idk man, up until a few hundred years ago the church seemingly had few qualms about getting up to shockingly non-Christlike behavior.
by Nemohsis » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:21 am
by Rojava Free State » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:28 am
The Alma Mater wrote:Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Idk man, up until a few hundred years ago the church seemingly had few qualms about getting up to shockingly non-Christlike behavior.
Remember, the Catholic Church had standing orders to hinder investigations into child molestation schandals until february.
Yes, february 2020.
However, while "hindering investigations" and "being bad for science" can be linked if one really wants to; that debate probably fits better in one of the thousand other topics on morality, christianity etc.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Rojava Free State » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:29 am
Nemohsis wrote:Personally, Catholism is pretty sus
Catholics can be great like any Christian can be great- but there's a lot of pitfalls.
Bible makes it pretty clear church heirarchy is pretty much God at top and everyone else equal on the bottom. I'm comfortable with that. Trying to justify things about the Catholic Church doctrine has led to some pretty un scientific reasoning, and it's just not very academically professional.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by United Muscovite Nations » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:35 am
Nemohsis wrote:Personally, Catholism is pretty sus
Catholics can be great like any Christian can be great- but there's a lot of pitfalls.
Bible makes it pretty clear church heirarchy is pretty much God at top and everyone else equal on the bottom. I'm comfortable with that. Trying to justify things about the Catholic Church doctrine has led to some pretty un scientific reasoning, and it's just not very academically professional.
by Salus Maior » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:54 am
Nemohsis wrote:Personally, Catholism is pretty sus
Catholics can be great like any Christian can be great- but there's a lot of pitfalls.
Bible makes it pretty clear church heirarchy is pretty much God at top and everyone else equal on the bottom. I'm comfortable with that. Trying to justify things about the Catholic Church doctrine has led to some pretty un scientific reasoning, and it's just not very academically professional.
by Salus Maior » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:58 am
Rojava Free State wrote:The Alma Mater wrote:
Remember, the Catholic Church had standing orders to hinder investigations into child molestation schandals until february.
Yes, february 2020.
However, while "hindering investigations" and "being bad for science" can be linked if one really wants to; that debate probably fits better in one of the thousand other topics on morality, christianity etc.
I guess they interpreted leviticus as "man shall not lie with another man...unless it isn't consensual and then gay rape is a-okay."
by Page » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:59 am
Salus Maior wrote:Nemohsis wrote:Personally, Catholism is pretty sus
Catholics can be great like any Christian can be great- but there's a lot of pitfalls.
Bible makes it pretty clear church heirarchy is pretty much God at top and everyone else equal on the bottom. I'm comfortable with that. Trying to justify things about the Catholic Church doctrine has led to some pretty un scientific reasoning, and it's just not very academically professional.
The Catholic church compiled the Bible. It's not in conflict.
by United Muscovite Nations » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:04 am
Page wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
The Catholic church compiled the Bible. It's not in conflict.
If there wasn't some conflict between the Catholic Church and scripture, Martin Luther would not have had 95 theses to nail to the church door.
That's not to say Protestants don't have their own doctrine that conflict with the Bible, they do, but the Catholic Church has quite a lot of extra-biblical doctrine.
by Sundiata » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:05 am
The practices of the church are based upon scripture and Christian tradition. Luther really did the world a disservice by disseminating confusion.Page wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
The Catholic church compiled the Bible. It's not in conflict.
If there wasn't some conflict between the Catholic Church and scripture, Martin Luther would not have had 95 theses to nail to the church door.
That's not to say Protestants don't have their own doctrine that conflict with the Bible, they do, but the Catholic Church has quite a lot of extra-biblical doctrine.
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