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by Cossack Peoples » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:24 am
"You give a monkey a stick, inevitably he’ll beat another monkey to death with it."
— Sadavir Errinwright, Expanse S2E12
by The Akasha Colony » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:45 am
Cossack Peoples wrote:Could an APS, such as the Trophy system, deal with the projectiles of recoilless anti-tank rifles, or are those too fast-moving?
by Cossack Peoples » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:49 am
The Akasha Colony wrote:Cossack Peoples wrote:Could an APS, such as the Trophy system, deal with the projectiles of recoilless anti-tank rifles, or are those too fast-moving?
Modern recoilless weapons like the Carl Gustaf are generally around the same speed if not slower than anti-tank missiles like TOW or Javelin.
"You give a monkey a stick, inevitably he’ll beat another monkey to death with it."
— Sadavir Errinwright, Expanse S2E12
by Purpelia » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:56 am
by United Muscovite Nations » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:59 am
Purpelia wrote:What I ask now I ask from a position of newer having fired a firearm. So bear with me.
I assume that if I fired one into someones elbow or knee at short range I could make the effected arm or leg fall off. And I mean completely fall off. As in completely 100% separate from the rest of the body. Am I correct in thus assumption?
If so, what would be the optimal distance to do so at? I know shotgun pellets tend to spread out over range. But I also know that 12 gauge is something like 19mm so just pressing the gun against the target area would not do either as it would just yield a 19mm hole. So there has to be a sweet spot for doing this. I presume there is some way of calculating shotgun spread that would make it possible to figure this out. And ideally some way that would let me calculate on the fly the correct distance for given limb dimensions.
These questions are serious so please answer them seriously.
by Gallia- » Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:56 am
Austrasien wrote:In terms of intensity of losses, the top 10 saddest anime deaths (of armoured spearheads) have all involved opposing armour in a significant capacity. Though modern IFVs with ATGMs probably muddy this situation a lot. While a wall of ATGMs has merit on paper in practice it will be hard to bring the fire of very large numbers of ATGM teams to bear at any given point unless the battlefield was prepared very meticulously in advance and you made very good guesses about the axis of attack. Which is really just a case of the general problem defenders face...
Cossack Peoples wrote:Could an APS, such as the Trophy system, deal with the projectiles of recoilless anti-tank rifles, or are those too fast-moving?
by Purpelia » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:04 am
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Purpelia wrote:What I ask now I ask from a position of newer having fired a firearm. So bear with me.
I assume that if I fired one into someones elbow or knee at short range I could make the effected arm or leg fall off. And I mean completely fall off. As in completely 100% separate from the rest of the body. Am I correct in thus assumption?
If so, what would be the optimal distance to do so at? I know shotgun pellets tend to spread out over range. But I also know that 12 gauge is something like 19mm so just pressing the gun against the target area would not do either as it would just yield a 19mm hole. So there has to be a sweet spot for doing this. I presume there is some way of calculating shotgun spread that would make it possible to figure this out. And ideally some way that would let me calculate on the fly the correct distance for given limb dimensions.
These questions are serious so please answer them seriously.
You are incorrect. At least in like 95% of cases.
by Gallia- » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:06 am
by Purpelia » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:09 am
Gallia- wrote:If you shot someone with a gun that had a caliber bigger than their leg it would amputate it. Or if it was really fast and sharp.
by United Muscovite Nations » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:09 am
Purpelia wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:You are incorrect. At least in like 95% of cases.
Really? I figured that buckshot at close range would have enough force to rip through flesh and break bone to the point where it all sheers off. Are you saying I would need multiple shots? How many do you think I'd need? Now I am worried that it would take too long which would seriously going to ruin the psychological effect of the act.
by Spirit of Hope » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:11 am
Purpelia wrote:Gallia- wrote:If you shot someone with a gun that had a caliber bigger than their leg it would amputate it. Or if it was really fast and sharp.
That's why I figured shotguns would do it. Their shot spreads out in a cone so presumably you'd have a sweet spot where the spread would be sufficiently wide to cover the limb sufficiently to rip it off but not enough for the projectiles to be too wide apart and just make holes.
Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!
by Purpelia » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:13 am
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Purpelia wrote:Really? I figured that buckshot at close range would have enough force to rip through flesh and break bone to the point where it all sheers off. Are you saying I would need multiple shots? How many do you think I'd need? Now I am worried that it would take too long which would seriously going to ruin the psychological effect of the act.
Buckshot at close range might do it under some circumstances but for the most part bullets are what scientists call "very fast" and as a result they tend to go through appendages pretty quickly. The vast majority of firearms would not achieve the result you are seeking, and even with the weapon you are describing it would almost never happen under battlefield conditions.
by United Muscovite Nations » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:14 am
Purpelia wrote:United Muscovite Nations wrote:Buckshot at close range might do it under some circumstances but for the most part bullets are what scientists call "very fast" and as a result they tend to go through appendages pretty quickly. The vast majority of firearms would not achieve the result you are seeking, and even with the weapon you are describing it would almost never happen under battlefield conditions.
I am not talking about battlefield conditions though. I figured so much was clear when I asked for a formula which would allow me to pick the perfect amputation range. Basically imagine me taking someone, tying her up in a torture dungeon and taking a shotgun to her limbs.
by Purpelia » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:14 am
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Purpelia wrote:I am not talking about battlefield conditions though. I figured so much was clear when I asked for a formula which would allow me to pick the perfect amputation range. Basically imagine me taking someone, tying her up in a torture dungeon and taking a shotgun to her limbs.
Why do you want to know this?
by United Muscovite Nations » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:18 am
by Purpelia » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:23 am
by New Solaurora » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:26 am
Purpelia wrote:Oh come on. Can't you just consider the thought experiment?
by Purpelia » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:28 am
by Gallia- » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:56 am
Purpelia wrote:Gallia- wrote:If you shot someone with a gun that had a caliber bigger than their leg it would amputate it. Or if it was really fast and sharp.
That's why I figured shotguns would do it. Their shot spreads out in a cone so presumably you'd have a sweet spot where the spread would be sufficiently wide to cover the limb sufficiently to rip it off but not enough for the projectiles to be too wide apart and just make holes.
by Purpelia » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:14 am
Gallia- wrote:Purpelia wrote:That's why I figured shotguns would do it. Their shot spreads out in a cone so presumably you'd have a sweet spot where the spread would be sufficiently wide to cover the limb sufficiently to rip it off but not enough for the projectiles to be too wide apart and just make holes.
Whose leg do you know is less than 18mm wide?
I have the dainty hands of a female and my little finger is almost 2 cm wide.
by Gallia- » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:18 am
by Kassaran » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:19 am
Purpelia wrote:That's why I am talking about range. Basically I want to play to the cone shaped aspect of shotgun blasts knowing that at some point the diameter of the cone has to be sufficiently wide to do it.
Really, if I had access to a shotgun and some plywood sheets I could just map this out and figure out the spread calculation from that. It'd be half a hour worth job of just measuring the hole diameter after each shot and walking back until I have enough data points to say the diameter grows by Xmm for every Ymm of distance. But I don't.
Zarkenis Ultima wrote:Tristan noticed footsteps behind him and looked there, only to see Eric approaching and then pointing his sword at the girl. He just blinked a few times at this before speaking.
"Put that down, Mr. Eric." He said. "She's obviously not a chicken."
by Triplebaconation » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:45 am
by Purpelia » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:50 am
Gallia- wrote:If you turn someone's knee into Swiss cheese it won't amputate it.
It'll just turn their knee into Swiss cheese.
by Purpelia » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:57 am
Kassaran wrote:Purpelia wrote:That's why I am talking about range. Basically I want to play to the cone shaped aspect of shotgun blasts knowing that at some point the diameter of the cone has to be sufficiently wide to do it.
Really, if I had access to a shotgun and some plywood sheets I could just map this out and figure out the spread calculation from that. It'd be half a hour worth job of just measuring the hole diameter after each shot and walking back until I have enough data points to say the diameter grows by Xmm for every Ymm of distance. But I don't.
So, pellets wouldn't do that. They'd just make hamburger meat of the limb. You'd want to use like a heavy rifle round or slug. That'd have to be aimed at center-of-mass of the point and limb you wish to remove, and then you'd fire. Maybe then you'd get limb amputation, but- yeah. No. Purp, if you need to torture someone, do it a good ole' fashioned way with a blade. Rubbing alcohol and a lighter would do wonders too. Apply as you see fit.
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