NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Vol. 11.0

[United Earthlings]

So, a hypothetical situation here; a nuclear attack submarine resembling an Akula-Class has just attacked a convoy with torpedoes. Now, an alert has been lifted and fighter aircraft are dropping sonar buoys randomly throughout the area. How can the sub evade them, short term or even in the long run?

The sub has three general options.

1. Prepare to join the navy of Davy Jones.
2. If possible, rig for ultra quiet and dive below a thermal layer that will negate the sonar buoys.
3. If possible, repeat first part of 2 and head straight for the ocean bottom, then play dead.

[Gallia-]

The sub can literally just turn around (or better, go through) because the noise of all the sinking ships will mask any movement it makes lol.

[Saranidia]

Would a Nazbol insurgency with a poorly educated,working-class demographic be able to get it's hands on anti-air defences and know how to use them?
I realise that most fighters pilots are officers but what about the people who operate remote air defences?

[Gallia-]

They would be bombed and then lose.

[Saranidia]

Does a society where soldiers have de-facto and/or de-jure privileges under the legal system promote military morale?
I'm asking because in one of my other nations military personnel are legally exempt from civilian police jurisdiction (if the city police catch a soldier in a fight gone horribly wrong they arrest them but then hand them back to the gendarmerie), as their police are military personnel themselves a blind eye is usually turned to gambling.
In addition this nation allows married soldiers to bring mistresses with them (despite adultery normally being a crime) and soldiers receive more leninent sentences for some things
(Though for drug and alcohol use or physical abuse of women the sentences are harsher).

Would this increase morale?
If so what price would this come at in terms of discipline?

[Saranidia]

They would be bombed and then lose.

The revolutionaries have already received control of the govt in this.
My question is: would they know how to operate these?
Please bear in mind that the enlisted men mostly joined the rebels but none of the commissioned officers did.

[Gallia-]

They would be bombed and then lose.

The revolutionaries have already received control of the govt in this.
My question is: would they know how to operate these?
Please bear in mind that the enlisted men mostly joined the rebels but none of the commissioned officers did.

They wouldn't operate them very well, and in any case air defense systems aren't effective against aircraft, only other aircraft are. Just blow them up or something so someone else won't have to. Take Strelas/Stingers/etc. and shoot down helicopters with them. Insurgents don't need air defenses because they aren't easily bombed to death. They don't need planes because they have VBIEDs, mortars, and land mines.

[Ideal Britain]

The revolutionaries have already received control of the govt in this.
My question is: would they know how to operate these?
Please bear in mind that the enlisted men mostly joined the rebels but none of the commissioned officers did.

They wouldn't operate them very well, and in any case air defense systems aren't effective against aircraft, only other aircraft are. Just blow them up or something so someone else won't have to. Take Strelas/Stingers/etc. and shoot down helicopters with them. Insurgents don't need air defenses because they aren't easily bombed to death. They don't need planes because they have VBIEDs, mortars, and land mines.

Thanks.
Will send this to the Munkcestrian Concilliar Republic

Would the arrest of charismatic and in some cases (E.G. Nigel Farage) mainstream politicians for hate speech followed by clashes between mostly their actual supporters (as opposed to just libertarians and traditional liberals) and riot police at demonstrations lead to far-right terrorism?

[The Akasha Colony]

Does a society where soldiers have de-facto and/or de-jure privileges under the legal system promote military morale?
I'm asking because in one of my other nations military personnel are legally exempt from civilian police jurisdiction (if the city police catch a soldier in a fight gone horribly wrong they arrest them but then hand them back to the gendarmerie), as their police are military personnel themselves a blind eye is usually turned to gambling.
In addition this nation allows married soldiers to bring mistresses with them (despite adultery normally being a crime) and soldiers receive more leninent sentences for some things
(Though for drug and alcohol use or physical abuse of women the sentences are harsher).

Would this increase morale?
If so what price would this come at in terms of discipline?

Probably the opposite.

Or perhaps more accurately, it will negatively affect discipline, which will have similar effects on fighting performance.

If soldiers are not expected to be at least as disciplined as civilians in following the laws of the land, why would you expect them to have the additional discipline needed to carry out their duties in a combat environment? This sounds like a great way to breed corruption, and corruption destroys fighting effectiveness. It will entice those looking for a way to indulge in their vices rather than those looking to serve.

[Ideal Britain]

Would the arrest of charismatic and in some cases (E.G. Nigel Farage) mainstream politicians for hate speech followed by clashes between mostly their actual supporters (as opposed to just libertarians and traditional liberals) and riot police at demonstrations lead to far-right terrorism?

In this scenario most pockets of far-right activity are in Yorkshire
(Mostly rural areas in South and West), Essex
and South Wales (formerly mining villages).

Many far-right demonstrators have been arrested for hate speech.
Most have given-up marches but the ones who do are more militant.

[Transcaucasian Military District]

Assuming the level of diplomatic isolation that would take place if the Transcaucasian Military District of the USSR managed to breakaway and take over the Transcaucasian republics during the fall of the Soviet Union, how difficult would it be to build the necessary industry (unless it's already there, I don't know) to maintain a the military equipment in the Transcaucuses. Moreover, how costly and difficult would it be to bum off roughly 600 T-72's off of the other Post-Soviet states in order to replace some of the non-T-72 tanks in inventory to simplify logistics?

[The Inter-Stellar Federation]

This is an FT nation where you have to do 1 years military service to vote.
What jobs would such a military have?
Besides the obvious spaceship captain, ground control, space marines etc.

[Triplebaconation]

Counting the fuzz on a caterpillar by touch.

[Gallia-]

i used to pet kittypillars as a shild (:

[The Manticoran Empire]

This is an FT nation where you have to do 1 years military service to vote.
What jobs would such a military have?
Besides the obvious spaceship captain, ground control, space marines etc.

Look up United States Army Military Occupational Specialty and you'll get an idea. There are approximately 190 MOS for Enlisted Army personnel, the US Navy has 50 or 60 odd Ratings (their idea of an MOS), the Marines have at least 100 MOS codes, and the Air Force has its own bunch of job codes. Then there are additional jobs for officers and warrant officers. So there will quite literally be a job for everything.

[The Manticoran Empire]

Assuming the level of diplomatic isolation that would take place if the Transcaucasian Military District of the USSR managed to breakaway and take over the Transcaucasian republics during the fall of the Soviet Union, how difficult would it be to build the necessary industry (unless it's already there, I don't know) to maintain a the military equipment in the Transcaucuses. Moreover, how costly and difficult would it be to bum off roughly 600 T-72's off of the other Post-Soviet states in order to replace some of the non-T-72 tanks in inventory to simplify logistics?

This is all assuming that Russia doesn't launch the Caucasus War and shell Grozny to rubble like they did when Chechnya tried to do just this.

[The Dolphin Isles]

Does a society where soldiers have de-facto and/or de-jure privileges under the legal system promote military morale?
I'm asking because in one of my other nations military personnel are legally exempt from civilian police jurisdiction (if the city police catch a soldier in a fight gone horribly wrong they arrest them but then hand them back to the gendarmerie), as their police are military personnel themselves a blind eye is usually turned to gambling.
In addition this nation allows married soldiers to bring mistresses with them (despite adultery normally being a crime) and soldiers receive more leninent sentences for some things
(Though for drug and alcohol use or physical abuse of women the sentences are harsher).

Would this increase morale?
If so what price would this come at in terms of discipline?

Probably the opposite.

Or perhaps more accurately, it will negatively affect discipline, which will have similar effects on fighting performance.

If soldiers are not expected to be at least as disciplined as civilians in following the laws of the land, why would you expect them to have the additional discipline needed to carry out their duties in a combat environment? This sounds like a great way to breed corruption, and corruption destroys fighting effectiveness. It will entice those looking for a way to indulge in their vices rather than those looking to serve.

I would second this. Your military should always be subservient or at least equal to your civil sector. Otherwise, you have a military junta which aren't necessarily known for their combat effectiveness. Having a military with no oversight and just relying on internal policing (which from your description is very minimal) leads to possible corruption, abuse of power, and coups. The soldiers might dangerously start valuing their commanders over their "patriotic duties". After all, they are above civil society and are disconnected from it. The only main caste they belong to is the military society with its separate laws and norms.

They might have an increase in morale during peacetime, but this will dissipate rapidly if you ask them to fight and die for a society that they feel they are above and not a part of. This can be seen with armies in the Middle East with a severe drop in combat effectiveness and morale once people actually start shooting at their privileged warrior castes. They are almost fighting a war in a foreign country when they should be motivated by the luster of "protecting the motherland".

"Why should I die for these peasants that are below me when my general says that we (he) deserve(s) to be in charge instead of the politician elected by said lowly peasants?"

In the perspective of your citizens:
"Why should I support a government that is paying a mafia-like organization to harm me and my community with no recourse?"

A disgruntled populace is a keen target for foreign interference.

[Lisander]

So, I spent all of the last years in NS Sports but recently I felt I should give a chance if not to military roleplaying, at least to the building of realistic and decent Modern Tech (MT) armed forces.

I started collecting all data that seemed important and making some assumptions and calculations with that Epizy NS Tracker (that I don't know that's reliable, but that's what I have for now).

Basic Info
Area: ~93.000 km²
RP Population: 11,470,000
Total Military: 132,554 (Active: 92,788; Reserve: 39,767)
Population Ratio: 21.47 people / 1,000
GDP (NS Tracker calculated) L$ 249,579,927,968.58 ($452,163,955,500)

NS Stats
Government Expenditures: 23.3% of GDP
Defense Expenditures: 10.3% of Government Expenditures (L$ 5,989,668,691.36)
Defense Forces: 4,570.83 (26,096th)
Industry: Arms Manufacturing: 11,875.78 (20,295th)
Industry: Information Technology: 52,233.30 (2,357th)
Scientific Advancement: 571.08 (4,182nd)

According to NS Tracker
Land Forces: Active 37,115 active; 15,907 reserves; 5 divisions
Naval Forces: 30,620 active; 13,123 reserves; 4 squadrons
Air Forces:25,053 active; 10,737 reserves; 3 air-wings.

So, what can you say about it? What are the flaws of this data? How would you suggest I develop this?

[Kassaran]

So, I spent all of the last years in NS Sports but recently I felt I should give a chance if not to military roleplaying, at least to the building of realistic and decent Modern Tech (MT) armed forces.

I started collecting all data that seemed important and making some assumptions and calculations with that Epizy NS Tracker (that I don't know that's reliable, but that's what I have for now).

So, what can you say about it? What are the flaws of this data? How would you suggest I develop this?

Data is just that, but the number one thing that differs between NS Sports and NSMRC is that while sports tend to have defined rules, boundaries, and plays... war does not.

So, before you begin applying the data you collected, look at the geographic, geopolitical, and economic needs of your nation and determine what kind of military you actually need. You say 'modern', but that varies wildly from a Swiss Modern to the US Modern, to the China Modern and everything in-between.

[The Manticoran Empire]

So, I spent all of the last years in NS Sports but recently I felt I should give a chance if not to military roleplaying, at least to the building of realistic and decent Modern Tech (MT) armed forces.

I started collecting all data that seemed important and making some assumptions and calculations with that Epizy NS Tracker (that I don't know that's reliable, but that's what I have for now).

Basic Info
Area: ~93.000 km²
RP Population: 11,470,000
Total Military: 132,554 (Active: 92,788; Reserve: 39,767)
Population Ratio: 21.47 people / 1,000
GDP (NS Tracker calculated) L$ 249,579,927,968.58 ($452,163,955,500)

NS Stats
Government Expenditures: 23.3% of GDP
Defense Expenditures: 10.3% of Government Expenditures (L$ 5,989,668,691.36)
Defense Forces: 4,570.83 (26,096th)
Industry: Arms Manufacturing: 11,875.78 (20,295th)
Industry: Information Technology: 52,233.30 (2,357th)
Scientific Advancement: 571.08 (4,182nd)

According to NS Tracker
Land Forces: Active 37,115 active; 15,907 reserves; 5 divisions
Naval Forces: 30,620 active; 13,123 reserves; 4 squadrons
Air Forces:25,053 active; 10,737 reserves; 3 air-wings.

So, what can you say about it? What are the flaws of this data? How would you suggest I develop this?

What you have given us is some economic data, some personnel numbers, and a rough time period.

They data we need isn't this. We need the geopolitical and geostrategic situation that your nation faces. What access to resources does it have? Who are its neighbors? Are they friendly or not? Are there allied nations which can be counted on to aid you in time of war? These are important questions that must first be answered.

[Theodosiya]

Hmm...apparently I just approved mass killings of old people in my Nation. But seriously, is it a viable strategy IRL? I could think it would help deal with not having to care about old people + no need to invest huge amount to healthcare. And would it have effect on the military?

[The Manticoran Empire]

Hmm...apparently I just approved mass killings of old people in my Nation. But seriously, is it a viable strategy IRL? I could think it would help deal with not having to care about old people + no need to invest huge amount to healthcare. And would it have effect on the military?

Well you also lose the majority of government officials, Fortune 500 CEOs, and other such stuff.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Hmm...apparently I just approved mass killings of old people in my Nation. But seriously, is it a viable strategy IRL? I could think it would help deal with not having to care about old people + no need to invest huge amount to healthcare. And would it have effect on the military?

Just have the retirees jump off cliffs and blame it on some century-old cultural tradition. It'd be memeful.

Fortune 500 CEOs

ok m8

L$ 249,579,927,968.58 ($452,163,955,500)

This is more for the non-military consultation thread but, your exchange rate is not twice the USD with that GDP unless you have a bloody damn good reason to (often irl this amounts to sitting on seas of crude oil like the Arabian oil sheiks).

[Theodosiya]

Eh, 65+. Under those are safe.

[New Vihenia]

Hmm...apparently I just approved mass killings of old people in my Nation. But seriously, is it a viable strategy IRL? I could think it would help deal with not having to care about old people + no need to invest huge amount to healthcare. And would it have effect on the military?

You're risking to lost myriad amount of Brilliant minds and veterans which can help guide your military. e.g David Knox Barton. He's behind Patriot, BEMWS radar or at least the one installed at Thule Island and many radar books. and he's 93 Years old.
---------------

Anyway. a New conventional underwater warrior have joined our rank.

The Ephyon Class. Diesel-Electric attack submarine.




She is in between Type-214 and Type-216 Submarine. 88.5 m in length, 8 m in beam, double hull concept with 6.5 m pressure hull diameter. On the surface she displaces 2287 metric tonne, underwater, 3018 metric tonne. Propulsion is that Diesel electric with Fuel cell generator in between. So she can last like 93 days underwater, sustaining 6.2 Knot. Maximum speed is 23 Knot which could be sustained in 4 days. At surface cruising speed of 10.7 Knot with diesel engine, she can reach 18000 km. Crew is about 37 men/women + provisions for special forces maybe 1 squad (12-16 men). Maximum test depth is 500 m

Armaments are 8x 533mm torpedo tubes with 12 reloads. 2 VPM (Vertical Payload Module) 2.5 m diameter and 8 m vertical tube that can fit anything ranged from diver lockout chamber to VLS. In land attack mode she can carry 16 cruise missiles or two modules of Vertical gun system or a mix e.g diver lockout chamber + cruise missiles or diver lockout chamber + Vertical Gun System.

Sensors atm are those big white marks on the lower side of hull, that's where the Conformal array is.