"Sexual" clothing in fiction and real life

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

OP, here's a thought. you currently have five threads on the front page of this subforum, most of them connected to sex, family planning, or marriage in some way, shape or form. while a few of them encourage some kind of discussion or critical thinking, such as the "Catholic Church on birth control" prompt, others, such as this one, really have no purpose. your opening post poses no question, has little connection to the real world, and at the very bet is going to generate a unproductive and very sexist conversation based on its subject matter and wording.

therefore, i want to make a polite suggestion, that due to your affinity to "people-watching," you create a blog for you to log your musings on the clothing choices of online personalities, or perhaps seek apprenticeship at a haute-couture brand.

The last thread, as I already pointed out in it when I linked to it, was getting off track. What was I supposed to do, derail it further?

Don't like it, don't read. But you don't speak for everyone here. Some people were intent on actually reading it.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

There is no excuse for rape, ever. That being said, it's ridiculous when a girl flips out and has a damn fit when men stare at her while she's wearing provacative clothes. If you dress to attract attention and then get mad when you attract attention, that just makes you an idiot at that point. When I walk into a bar and everyone in my squad looking like the guys in the video below, I bathe in the attention and welcome it with open arms.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PaP-Yd_pzII

thank you for your thoughts on the matter. i am sure this very comforting to the minors who get catcalled and harassed for choosing to wear shorts during the summer.

By whom? Adults, or others their age?

Adults could very reasonably be expected to assume by default people are interested in their own age group. They could not be reasonably expected to assume whether a particular woman is into skinny guys or muscular guys, or [insert trait dichotomy here]...

[Rojava Free State]

There is no excuse for rape, ever. That being said, it's ridiculous when a girl flips out and has a damn fit when men stare at her while she's wearing provacative clothes. If you dress to attract attention and then get mad when you attract attention, that just makes you an idiot at that point. When I walk into a bar and everyone in my squad looking like the guys in the video below, I bathe in the attention and welcome it with open arms.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PaP-Yd_pzII

thank you for your thoughts on the matter. i am sure this very comforting to the minors who get catcalled and harassed for choosing to wear shorts during the summer.

When you wear a shirt with low cleveage and an exposed midrift, and shorts cut up to your ass cheeks, you don't get to turn around and go "EVERYONE IS HARASSING ME!" don't like it? Don't dress to attract. It's not hard. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Fahran]

Clothing does constitute a form of speech and can communicate a provocative or sexual message. With that said, it's quite possible, easy even, to misinterpret those messages, especially when you personally find someone attractive or else have a propensity towards less well-mannered behaviors. It's also possible to convey a message without intending to do so. For example, a lot of my athletic shorts or yoga pants aren't exactly the least provocative articles of clothing in existence. They're comfortable and functional when I'm jogging, playing soccer, or doing stretches or poses. They're also the regular length and make for those types of clothes. Unfortunately for me, wearing yoga pants on a university campus isn't always interpreted as just athletic or fitness related. Hence the problem.

I would feel uncomfortable and/or annoyed if people cat-called me in a sleazy way. That's why I'd suggest that you shouldn't ever cat-call a woman. And, if you're over eighteen, don't ever, ever, ever cat-call a girl. You don't know the context so you can't reliably understand the intended message. Additionally, even if you're correct about that message being provocative or sexual in nature, there's a very strong possibility it's not actually intended for you. In my experience, there's also a pretty stark difference between trying to look hot and look sexy. Not my direct experience, mind you, because I look like one of those creepy porcelain dolls half the time, but you get the point. You need an extra level of communication beyond clothing to really understand someone's intention.

I'm not telling you that you can't talk to women, compliment us on our appearance, or flirt with us. It's just best to do that in a way that acknowledges our humanity and agency so that you're actually able to add an additional and necessary level of communication into the interaction. That's a lot more likely to get you a number or a date than shouting "nice ass" from across the street. And just staring is creepy so don't do that.

[Rojava Free State]

Clothing does constitute a form of speech and can communicate a provocative or sexual message. With that said, it's quite possible, easy even, to misinterpret those messages, especially when you personally find someone attractive or else have a propensity towards less well-mannered behaviors. It's also possible to convey a message without intending to do so. For example, a lot of my athletic shorts or yoga pants aren't exactly the least provocative articles of clothing in existence. They're comfortable and functional when I'm jogging, playing soccer, or doing stretches or poses. They're also the regular length and make for those types of clothes. Unfortunately for me, wearing yoga pants on a university campus isn't always interpreted as just athletic or fitness related. Hence the problem.

I would feel uncomfortable and/or annoyed if people cat-called me in a sleazy way. That's why I'd suggest that you shouldn't ever cat-call a woman. And, if you're over eighteen, don't ever, ever, ever cat-call a girl. You don't know the context so you can't reliably understand the intended message. Additionally, even if you're correct about that message being provocative or sexual in nature, there's a very strong possibility it's not actually intended for you. In my experience, there's also a pretty stark difference between trying to look hot and look sexy. Not my direct experience, mind you, because I look like one of those creepy porcelain dolls half the time, but you get the point. You need an extra level of communication beyond clothing to really understand someone's intention.

I'm not telling you that you can't talk to women, compliment us on our appearance, or flirt with us. It's just best to do that in a way that acknowledges our humanity and agency so that you're actually able to add an additional and necessary level of communication into the interaction. That's a lot more likely to get you a number or a date than shouting "nice ass" from across the street. And just staring is creepy so don't do that.

You can stop a man from cat calling but it's hard to stop a man from staring.

As I said earlier on this page, if you dress in a way that attracts attention, you will attract attention. We can debate all day what is and isn't too proactive but if you go out in public literally dressed like a hooker (not you as in you yourself, I mean a random person), people are gonna react to you like you're a hooker. If I go out in public wearing a shirt with Mao's face on it, it's my own fault when someone yells "get outta here you pinko scum" from across the road.

[Purpelia]

You can stop a man from cat calling but it's hard to stop a man from staring.

And frankly we shouldn't try. It is idiotic and altogether wrong to punish people for looking at someone the wrong way.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You can stop a man from cat calling but it's hard to stop a man from staring.

And frankly we shouldn't try. It is idiotic and altogether wrong to punish people for looking at someone the wrong way.

If it’s just looks, meh. As uncomfortable as some may be, looks aren’t going to result, usually, into harm. If the looks then turn into actions or harm, then yeah.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

OP, here's a thought. you currently have five threads on the front page of this subforum, most of them connected to sex, family planning, or marriage in some way, shape or form. while a few of them encourage some kind of discussion or critical thinking, such as the "Catholic Church on birth control" prompt, others, such as this one, really have no purpose. your opening post poses no question, has little connection to the real world, and at the very bet is going to generate a unproductive and very sexist conversation based on its subject matter and wording.

therefore, i want to make a polite suggestion, that due to your affinity to "people-watching," you create a blog for you to log your musings on the clothing choices of online personalities, or perhaps seek apprenticeship at a haute-couture brand.

Personally I was thinking his obsession came from a desire of his own to get laid.

But I like your idea, too.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Personally I was thinking his obsession came from a desire of his own to get laid.

We all "desire to get laid." Or most of us do. Evolution would've cut down on the numbers of those who didn't.

Yet these ideas of mine don't seem very popular. Even compared to other things often attributed to sexual jealousy. (Eg. anti-abortion attitudes.)

So either men "secretly" hold them, but conceal them TO get laid, or something else happened here.

But I wouldn't expect rationality from someone who doesn't know better than to claim to know someone's motives based solely on forum posts.

[Bromagia]

Personally I was thinking his obsession came from a desire of his own to get laid.

We all "desire to get laid." Or most of us do. Evolution would've cut down on the numbers of those who didn't.

Yet these ideas of mine don't seem very popular. Even compared to other things often attributed to sexual jealousy. (Eg. anti-abortion attitudes.)

So either men "secretly" hold them, but conceal them TO get laid, or something else happened here.

But I wouldn't expect rationality from someone who doesn't know better than to claim to know someone's motives based solely on forum posts.

When the majority of your time on the forum has been spent making obviously desperate comments about sex....yeah, it's fair to assume your motive.

[Saiwania]

When you wear a shirt with low cleveage and an exposed midrift, and shorts cut up to your ass cheeks, you don't get to turn around and go "EVERYONE IS HARASSING ME!" don't like it? Don't dress to attract. It's not hard. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I do have to agree that lustful eyes aren't practical to protest against if your clothing isn't modest enough, and that this is mostly Feminazi nonsense when it happens. The fact is that any piece of clothing you wear in public, is going to have a consequence tied to it in terms of how people rate your fashion sense: whether you're rated higher or lower in terms of your appearance and whether you fit in.

If I just wore anything too outlandish, people looking at me would automatically not have as much respect for me and so on. You dress in accordance to your local culture/fashions if not the weather at minimum.

[New haven america]

thank you for your thoughts on the matter. i am sure this very comforting to the minors who get catcalled and harassed for choosing to wear shorts during the summer.

When you wear a shirt with low cleveage and an exposed midrift, and shorts cut up to your ass cheeks, you don't get to turn around and go "EVERYONE IS HARASSING ME!" don't like it? Don't dress to attract. It's not hard. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Just cause you may have trouble with self control, doesn't mean we all do.

Plus don't lump us together please~

[Bromagia]

When you wear a shirt with low cleveage and an exposed midrift, and shorts cut up to your ass cheeks, you don't get to turn around and go "EVERYONE IS HARASSING ME!" don't like it? Don't dress to attract. It's not hard. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Just cause you may have trouble with self control, doesn't mean we all do.

Plus don't lump us together please~

You haven't got a right not to be looked at.

And for that matter, the sexual gaze is at least partially involuntary. It's not purely a matter of self control. Don't expose your tasty bits if you don't want them looked at.

[New haven america]

Just cause you may have trouble with self control, doesn't mean we all do.

Plus don't lump us together please~

You haven't got a right not to be looked at.

And for that matter, the sexual gaze is at least partially involuntary. It's not purely a matter of self control. Don't expose your tasty bits if you don't want them looked at.

Here's a little secret: Most women don't give a shit about a cursory glace, a lot of them even do it themselves towards men and women.

However, deciding to stare down someone or harass someone because they dare show a bit of ankle? Yeah, they're not the problem.

[The Two Jerseys]

If you wear a plain black armband with literally no lettering or anything on it, it means you are opposed to a war.

Since when is that a thing? I've always known it as a sign of mourning.

[Galloism]

If you wear a plain black armband with literally no lettering or anything on it, it means you are opposed to a war.

Since when is that a thing? I've always known it as a sign of mourning.

1965

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v. ... l_District

[James_xenoland]

Ughh.. At this whole issue really.. I have no greater contempt than for those, prudes, (both real life and especially about fiction) who whine and bitch about the newest made up term or _ism that is totally horrible and ruinously harmful to something...something...someone....somewhere. Along the way of the last ~20 years or so we've not only nearly completely forgot how to truly fiction/fantasy in general (see the current obsession with grit, edgy darkness, hopelessness and tragedy.. or as they have come to be known today, "realism") and along with them we forgot that with fiction and especially fantasy, concepts like idealization are the ****ing point, not a trope or side effect! And certainly not some sinister force there to "harm", "oppress" or "shame" anyone. That especially goes for sexy!

But you do bring up a good point. One side does indeed seem to focus on fiction while the other, at least historically, on real life. God help us if they ever truly start agreeing on either!

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

When the majority of your time on the forum has been spent making obviously desperate comments about sex....yeah, it's fair to assume your motive.

Horse shit. I talk about all kinds of things.

The latest cluster was, as pointed out in the OP, a case of a "chain reaction" where one spins off into a tangent and I make another about that tangent. If you doubted that you could've disputed this then and there, instead of ignoring that.

People on this site have tried to claim to know someone's motives based on mere forum posts before. And they've been wrong all the time. Almost as if anyone smart enough to be any good at deducing motives knows better than to consider forum posts evidence of such motives in the first place. What makes you think your case is any different?

If people are jumping to conclusions about me based on this latest chain-reaction of sexuality-themed threads, good. It makes the irrational ones easier to identify.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

You haven't got a right not to be looked at.

And for that matter, the sexual gaze is at least partially involuntary. It's not purely a matter of self control. Don't expose your tasty bits if you don't want them looked at.

Here's a little secret: Most women don't give a shit about a cursory glace, a lot of them even do it themselves towards men and women.

However, deciding to stare down someone or harass someone because they dare show a bit of ankle? Yeah, they're not the problem.

Different people have different opinions on the line between a "cursory glance" and "staring," though, so how is any bystander to know whether or not their "cursory glance" is the one being complained about?

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Personally I was thinking his obsession came from a desire of his own to get laid.

We all "desire to get laid." Or most of us do. Evolution would've cut down on the numbers of those who didn't.

Yet these ideas of mine don't seem very popular. Even compared to other things often attributed to sexual jealousy. (Eg. anti-abortion attitudes.)

So either men "secretly" hold them, but conceal them TO get laid, or something else happened here.

But I wouldn't expect rationality from someone who doesn't know better than to claim to know someone's motives based solely on forum posts.

Bro, at the very least you're sex-obsessed. It's a topic you feel compelled to discuss at any given opportunity. Most often in complaint to how women approach it. It definitely makes you come off as Incel at times.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Bro, at the very least you're sex-obsessed.

Any more than the rest of us? Might I remind you what gun owners and truck owners alike are made out to be "compensating" for?

Only real difference is I'm more honest about it.

It's a topic you feel compelled to discuss at any given opportunity.

>Implying there aren't many more things that could be compared/tied to sex that I haven't.

YTP/R34 have proven just how gutterminded human nature can be. And how useful their guttermindedness can be when they're more open about it.

Most often in complaint to how women approach it.

Yes. To oppose this site's bias in the opposite direction.

It definitely makes you come off as Incel at times.

Despite the numerous references to fear of child support induced poverty?

People I know in person; including those who don't share the aforementioned fear; never mistake me for this kind of thing. If you do, that says a lot more about you than it does about me.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Bro, at the very least you're sex-obsessed.

Any more than the rest of us? Might I remind you what gun owners and truck owners alike are made out to be "compensating" for?

Only real difference is I'm more honest about it.

It's a topic you feel compelled to discuss at any given opportunity.

>Implying there aren't many more things that could be compared/tied to sex that I haven't.

YTP/R34 have proven just how gutterminded human nature can be. And how useful their guttermindedness can be when they're more open about it.

Most often in complaint to how women approach it.

Yes. To oppose this site's bias in the opposite direction.

It definitely makes you come off as Incel at times.

Despite the numerous references to fear of child support induced poverty?

People I know in person; including those who don't share the aforementioned fear; never mistake me for this kind of thing. If you do, that says a lot more about you than it does about me.

No, it says more about the way you're phrasing your sentences.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Any more than the rest of us? Might I remind you what gun owners and truck owners alike are made out to be "compensating" for?

Only real difference is I'm more honest about it.



>Implying there aren't many more things that could be compared/tied to sex that I haven't.

YTP/R34 have proven just how gutterminded human nature can be. And how useful their guttermindedness can be when they're more open about it.



Yes. To oppose this site's bias in the opposite direction.



Despite the numerous references to fear of child support induced poverty?

People I know in person; including those who don't share the aforementioned fear; never mistake me for this kind of thing. If you do, that says a lot more about you than it does about me.

No, it says more about the way you're phrasing your sentences.

Anyone could use this as an excuse for any conclusion they jump to about anyone else. It is purely arbitrary.

[Fahran]

And frankly we shouldn't try. It is idiotic and altogether wrong to punish people for looking at someone the wrong way.

If it’s just looks, meh. As uncomfortable as some may be, looks aren’t going to result, usually, into harm. If the looks then turn into actions or harm, then yeah.

I tend to draw a distinction between looking/noticing, ogling, and an uncomfortable level of staring. The first one is completely acceptable in a public setting. The second is frowned upon in polite company but not really that big of a deal unless you're ogling a child - in which case, Imma call Chris Hansen. The third one is unnerving and, honestly, at that point shoot your shot unless you're wearing your "may I speak to the manager face of unyielding judgement."

[Fahran]

I do have to agree that lustful eyes aren't practical to protest against if your clothing isn't modest enough, and that this is mostly Feminazi nonsense when it happens.

Looks like we need to don burqas, ladies. Modesty, in every case, is rooted in cultural attitudes and conventions. I have been verbally accosted by one those street preachers who I'm convinced is trying to get assaulted for wearing a dress that fell just above my knees with tights under it because I was "dressed like a whore." Different people and different subcultures often have radically different conceptions of what modest behavior looks like. My dress is usually extremely modest by the standards of anyone who isn't a religious zealot. But that's not a certain shield against getting cat-called or ogled.

The fact is that any piece of clothing you wear in public, is going to have a consequence tied to it in terms of how people rate your fashion sense: whether you're rated higher or lower in terms of your appearance and whether you fit in.

Yes, but imagine, if you will, someone calling you a slut for wearing shorts. Or somebody ogling you for wearing a perfectly innocent article of clothing because they thought you looked sexy. It literally happens to teenage girls wearing jean shorts and tank tops. That's not really cool. That's not really socially acceptable either. Most men wouldn't do that in front of their mothers, would they?

If I just wore anything too outlandish, people looking at me would automatically not have as much respect for me and so on. You dress in accordance to your local culture/fashions if not the weather at minimum.

I agree with this overall.