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Virgin-mockery; human nature?

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Virgin-mockery; human nature?

Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:17 pm

I recall once in my "lurking" days a thread about cheerleaders wherein some self-proclaimed asexual expressed negative stereotypes about cheerleaders. I was at first skeptical of these stereotypes; my sister alone was an exception to many of them.

But then I saw a few people merely assert; without proof, that the person express them must be "having difficulties getting laid;" and everyone else reiterated this assumption by failing to challenge it.

Now I'm kind of left wondering if "disagreement with these stereotypes" was cut from the same evolutionary cloth as willingness to believe (and/or pretend to believe) unverifiable assumptions about people based on evidence so flimsy as their forum posts, and therefore, if my sister was an anomaly in all of this.

For all the left's ability to call out unfalsifiability and false dichotomies in religion, they sure seem to repeat the same mistakes when partaking in virgin mockery.

There are 2 ways to interpret this.

1. If someone fails to "get laid" they have failed to prove themselves in the supposedly-highest goal; sexual desirability; and asexuality is no more nor less of a valid exception than legitimate fears of STDs and poverty-inducing child support bills. Then again, such people often get indignant at the same statement made about failing to achieve the promiscuous lifestyle in particular, even though it's only a difference of degree, if even that. (Obviously, this argument doesn't work on women, since males aren't known for pickiness.)

2. If someone doesn't have "personal experience" with sexuality they have no credibility on it. As if this medium weren't so rife with people so blatantly ignoring the personal experience they already have that they type at length, for free, about how profit is supposedly the only thing motivating hard work. You never hear anyone complain about that one. (No, not even me; I'm invoking this to make a point, and as much as I hate that characterization of human nature I can't afford to rule out the "only exceptions will point out the rule" possibility.) "Personal experience" deserves no sway in the cesspool of lying that is the Internet. As well, this one could theoretically apply just as well to a woman who is a virgin for religious and/or practical reasons. But it isn't used against women, and it isn't used by people who distance themselves from variant #1, so it can be presumed scarce.

Is this itself a false dichotomy? Is there a third possible explanation of this that I am missing?

As well, might it solely be in the nature of the sort of people this website attracts, rather than necessarily in human nature as a whole?
Last edited by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha on Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.

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Postby Saiwania » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:53 pm

The third perspective I'd offer is that you don't have to be bothered by other people trying to shame you on that basis. Practically speaking, most people aren't going to know too much about your private life. Especially if you're not too public about it or some celebrity. What you do after work hours is your own business. Pretend as if you've already had sex before (even if you haven't) and treat it as it being no big deal if that is what you see fit. The better approach is to let people think what they want.

It is better to be a virgin but not have an STI or any unwanted children, than to not be but have either of those as a consequence. You're more screwed generally speaking, if you aren't financially ready or fully self sufficient. Where I live, if you don't pay child support (if you're ordered to by a court) you will have your driver's license revoked. A few other negative consequences might happen, but yes- its a path to extreme poverty if not lower status to make too many stupid or reckless decisions, outside of just not being skilled/competitive enough to "win" under capitalism.

It is a harsh truth that no one is obligated to help lazy or subpar people a stable living, they have to make that happen on their own if not try to, when going out there. The same is true for someone in the realm of romance. It is on them to seduce someone, or to stay single for life.
Last edited by Saiwania on Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:20 pm

American SJWs calling someone a virgin is ironic. It's far better to be a virgin than to be a brainless twat who gets their panties in a bunch the minute they see a white guy with dreadlocks riding a skateboard and reacts with violence and hate.

Everyone is a virgin at one time in their life. Most of us are never dumb enough to stoop so low as to be a member of the outrage crowd.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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The Republic of Fore
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Postby The Republic of Fore » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:30 pm

Saiwania wrote:The third perspective I'd offer is that you don't have to be bothered by other people trying to shame you on that basis. Practically speaking, most people aren't going to know too much about your private life. Especially if you're not too public about it or some celebrity. What you do after work hours is your own business. Pretend as if you've already had sex before (even if you haven't) and treat it as it being no big deal if that is what you see fit. The better approach is to let people think what they want.

It is better to be a virgin but not have an STI or any unwanted children, than to not be but have either of those as a consequence. You're more screwed generally speaking, if you aren't financially ready or fully self sufficient. Where I live, if you don't pay child support (if you're ordered to by a court) you will have your driver's license revoked. A few other negative consequences might happen, but yes- its a path to extreme poverty if not lower status to make too many stupid or reckless decisions, outside of just not being skilled/competitive enough to "win" under capitalism.

It is a harsh truth that no one is obligated to help lazy or subpar people a stable living, they have to make that happen on their own if not try to, when going out there. The same is true for someone in the realm of romance. It is on them to seduce someone, or to stay single for life.

Bit of a side note, but I don't understand the mass panic people seem to have over STD's/STI's. You do know that condoms and STD tests both exist right? And that the vast majority of STD's are curable? Even children can be easily avoided.

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Postby Vetalia » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:34 pm

The Republic of Fore wrote:Bit of a side note, but I don't understand the mass panic people seem to have over STD's/STI's. You do know that condoms and STD tests both exist right? And that the vast majority of STD's are curable? Even children can be easily avoided.


Eh, I have that kind of attitude towards STIs. STIs are now resistant to multiple antibiotics and pretty soon they will be completely resistant, the rates have kept climbing in recent years and pretty soon it will be a serious public health problem. Ironically, they might end up being much more dangerous than HIV.
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Postby Saiwania » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:35 pm

The Republic of Fore wrote:Bit of a side note, but I don't understand the mass panic people seem to have over STD's/STI's. You do know that condoms and STD tests both exist right? And that the vast majority of STD's are curable? Even children can be easily avoided.


Most opportunities for sex aren't quite so formal, it could well be at a time/place where you aren't prepared and if you let it "just happen" you've already gone too far in that there are some consequences going forward perhaps. You and the other person aren't going to stay "lustful/turned on" if the momentum for it is broken. What you say can matter just as much as what you do.
Last edited by Saiwania on Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:52 pm

Saiwania wrote:
The Republic of Fore wrote:Bit of a side note, but I don't understand the mass panic people seem to have over STD's/STI's. You do know that condoms and STD tests both exist right? And that the vast majority of STD's are curable? Even children can be easily avoided.


Most opportunities for sex aren't quite so formal, it could well be at a time/place where you aren't prepared and if you let it "just happen" you've already gone too far in that there are some consequences going forward perhaps. You and the other person aren't going to stay "lustful/turned on" if the momentum for it is broken. What you say can matter just as much as what you do.


This is why I bring a condom in my wallet anytime the chance for interaction with females at a location is above 5%. Gotta be prepared
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:00 pm

Any argument about whether something constitutes human nature will inevitably descend into useless speculation; it's human nature.
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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:04 pm

Saiwania wrote:The third perspective I'd offer is that you don't have to be bothered by other people trying to shame you on that basis. Practically speaking, most people aren't going to know too much about your private life.

That's not an answer, it's a sidestep.

Firstly, if it is human nature to have more respect for males with a strong sexual history

Secondly, if women prefer men with a stronger sexual history, is it deceit by omission not to bring up my lack thereof, even though if you're a virgin past a given age threshold (whatever that threshold may be) it might be too late?

We have rape by fraud laws right now, and they're often applied to men who lied about whether they're Arab or Israeli. Might they be morally equivalent, if not legally equivalent, to having sex with a woman as a virgin when she wanted a non-virgin man?
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.

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Postby Cekoviu » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:07 pm

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Saiwania wrote:The third perspective I'd offer is that you don't have to be bothered by other people trying to shame you on that basis. Practically speaking, most people aren't going to know too much about your private life.

That's not an answer, it's a sidestep.

Firstly, if it is human nature to have more respect for males with a strong sexual history

is it though? or is that embedded within our social understanding, no longer discernible from innate qualities?
Secondly, if women prefer men with a stronger sexual history, is it deceit by omission not to bring up my lack thereof, even though if you're a virgin past a given age threshold (whatever that threshold may be) it might be too late?

If your premise is true, sure, but it isn't necessarily.
We have rape by fraud laws right now, and they're often applied to men who lied about whether they're Arab or Israeli. Might they be morally equivalent, if not legally equivalent, to having sex with a woman as a virgin when she wanted a non-virgin man?

No
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Postby New haven america » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:08 pm

They're just jealous of people who are waiting for their acceptance letters from Hogwarts.
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:09 pm

There's nothing wrong with being a virgin, there is something wrong with being an incel. The latter communicates some kind of deficit in interaction that needs to be solved.
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The Republic of Fore
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Postby The Republic of Fore » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:11 pm

Saiwania wrote:
The Republic of Fore wrote:Bit of a side note, but I don't understand the mass panic people seem to have over STD's/STI's. You do know that condoms and STD tests both exist right? And that the vast majority of STD's are curable? Even children can be easily avoided.


Most opportunities for sex aren't quite so formal, it could well be at a time/place where you aren't prepared and if you let it "just happen" you've already gone too far in that there are some consequences going forward perhaps. You and the other person aren't going to stay "lustful/turned on" if the momentum for it is broken. What you say can matter just as much as what you do.

As other people have mentioned, that's why you keep a condom on you. And an ever increasing number of girls carry them as well.

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Postby The Snazzylands » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:12 pm

Point #2 is partially true, though. If you have no personal experience with sex or relationships in general, your only exposure to it is going to be through unrealistic or romanticized portrayals in tv/movies, vidya, pornography, etc. or embellished anecdotes from people you know. As much as it bothers me sometimes, the "just have sex you virgin" quip that I keep seeing does have some validity in the sense that getting into a real relationship is probably the best thing to dispel many of the stereotypes/insecurities a lot of men have about what women are like, how they think, and what they find attractive in a partner.
Though I think generally the "just have sex" thing is unhelpful and fosters an unhealthy view of sex being an end in itself.

Regardless, if you're being made fun of for being a virgin or not getting laid enough, either stop stressing over other peoples' expectations of how you should be living your life, or surround yourself with people who are less judgmental and don't obsess over petty stuff like this. It really is no one's business but yours.
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The Republic of Fore
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Postby The Republic of Fore » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:12 pm

Vetalia wrote:
The Republic of Fore wrote:Bit of a side note, but I don't understand the mass panic people seem to have over STD's/STI's. You do know that condoms and STD tests both exist right? And that the vast majority of STD's are curable? Even children can be easily avoided.


Eh, I have that kind of attitude towards STIs. STIs are now resistant to multiple antibiotics and pretty soon they will be completely resistant, the rates have kept climbing in recent years and pretty soon it will be a serious public health problem. Ironically, they might end up being much more dangerous than HIV.

Even then, keep a condom on you man. And if you have a regular partner, both of you should get tested. IF you're responsible It's not hard to avoid it.

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Postby Vetalia » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:08 pm

The Republic of Fore wrote:Even then, keep a condom on you man. And if you have a regular partner, both of you should get tested. IF you're responsible It's not hard to avoid it.


I think the IF is the big part of the problem here. Really mystifying that safer sex practices are becoming less widespread despite much higher danger from STIs.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:10 pm

Vetalia wrote:
The Republic of Fore wrote:Even then, keep a condom on you man. And if you have a regular partner, both of you should get tested. IF you're responsible It's not hard to avoid it.


I think the IF is the big part of the problem here. Really mystifying that safer sex practices are becoming less widespread despite much higher danger from STIs.


Its cause people are being stupid again. Also abstinence only education is making life hell for americans. I knew a guy who once said he wouldn't get aids because his pullout game was on fleek. He later contracted HPV. And then the seniors got blue waffle, and that was just some full on Stephen King level horror shit
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:49 pm

Never understood how a culture that evolved on Christian traditions - in which a virgin is a key, central figure - ended up bagging on folks who can't get laid/haven't been laid yet.

I'm not ashamed to admit I'm a virgin. Don't understand how anyone can be.
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Postby Saiwania » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:51 pm

The Republic of Fore wrote:As other people have mentioned, that's why you keep a condom on you. And an ever increasing number of girls carry them as well.


No, I can't just keep one on me, given that the norm for me is more likely to not be having sex anytime soon (if ever). By the time sex is a possibility, the condom could be expired. This is putting aside the fact that condoms are said to take away 90%+ of the pleasure to be had with sex away from the man.
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Postby Cekoviu » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:52 pm

Saiwania wrote:
The Republic of Fore wrote:As other people have mentioned, that's why you keep a condom on you. And an ever increasing number of girls carry them as well.


No, I can't just keep one on me, given that the norm for me is more likely to not be having sex anytime soon (if ever). By the time sex is a possibility, the condom could be expired. This is putting aside the fact that condoms are said to take away 90%+ of the pleasure to be had with sex away from the man.

By whom?
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:57 pm

Saiwania wrote:
The Republic of Fore wrote:As other people have mentioned, that's why you keep a condom on you. And an ever increasing number of girls carry them as well.


No, I can't just keep one on me, given that the norm for me is more likely to not be having sex anytime soon (if ever). By the time sex is a possibility, the condom could be expired. This is putting aside the fact that condoms are said to take away 90%+ of the pleasure to be had with sex away from the man.

Oh... no? It feels better without, but this 90% figure is ludicrous.

Also, it really doesn't take that much effort to switch out the condom in your wallet every six months. Just do it when you get your oil changed.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:58 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Saiwania wrote:
No, I can't just keep one on me, given that the norm for me is more likely to not be having sex anytime soon (if ever). By the time sex is a possibility, the condom could be expired. This is putting aside the fact that condoms are said to take away 90%+ of the pleasure to be had with sex away from the man.

By whom?


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Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:58 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Saiwania wrote:
No, I can't just keep one on me, given that the norm for me is more likely to not be having sex anytime soon (if ever). By the time sex is a possibility, the condom could be expired. This is putting aside the fact that condoms are said to take away 90%+ of the pleasure to be had with sex away from the man.

Oh... no? It feels better without, but this 90% figure is ludicrous.

Also, it really doesn't take that much effort to switch out the condom in your wallet every six months. Just do it when you get your oil changed.


They make condoms now where you dont even feel them. It's like raw sex
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:58 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:There's nothing wrong with being a virgin, there is something wrong with being an incel. The latter communicates some kind of deficit in interaction that needs to be solved.

Mockery of the former doesn't hinge on one being the latter.


Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Never understood how a culture that evolved on Christian traditions - in which a virgin is a key, central figure - ended up bagging on folks who can't get laid/haven't been laid yet.

The Bible contradicts itself enough to have plausible deniability on everything contained within it.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.

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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:03 pm

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Firstly, if it is human nature to have more respect for males with a strong sexual history.


Nope, the majority of that is purely cultural. I'd say more people care about your wealth/status than what you do in your private life. Too many people are focused on their own problems, unless they're into gossip.

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Secondly, if women prefer men with a stronger sexual history, is it deceit by omission not to bring up my lack thereof, even though if you're a virgin past a given age threshold (whatever that threshold may be) it might be too late?


No, people don't get to cry rape just because they didn't enjoy the sex or have regrets. Either they agreed to it or they didn't. Either the person stopped when consent was withdrawn or they continued anyways.

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:We have rape by fraud laws right now, and they're often applied to men who lied about whether they're Arab or Israeli. Might they be morally equivalent, if not legally equivalent, to having sex with a woman as a virgin when she wanted a non-virgin man?


No its not equivalent. Besides which, there is hardly any difference practically speaking, between a virgin and a person who had sex the one time and never did again for years if not longer. If it isn't something provable in court, you more likely than not- have nothing to worry about.
Last edited by Saiwania on Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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