Well it looks like Gibraltar is going to get fucked in the trade deal if the EU is going to play hardball.
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by The New California Republic » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:06 am
by The New California Republic » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:17 am
The Free Joy State wrote:The New California Republic wrote:It's a double-edged sword. On the one hand keeping them in prison protects the public, but on the other hand there is no evidence that deradicalisation programmes with the prisoners works, and the prisoners are likely to become even more radicalised in prison. Many terrorists have previously been in prison for other non-terrorism offences, and when they have been released they have committed acts of terrorism.
I think it needs to be a balance. You can't just lock up everyone who is ever jailed forever, simply because you know that prisons have tended to be Universities of Crime and Timmy the Thief may graduate as Timmy the Terrorist (I know that's not your argument, NCR; I'm just saying...). Although more investment in prison staff and rehabilitation is really needed to prevent prisons being Universities of Crime.
I think that judges need to be given more flexibility to sentence based on the risk still posed by that individual. If, upon the point of release it can be demonstrated to a reasonable standard that the prisoner still poses a substantial threat to the community, there should be greater flexibility.
I do believe that a sizable majority of people can and should be rehabilitated, and all effort should be made to do so. But some people will always pose a danger to the public.
by Alvecia » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:22 am
New Bremerton wrote:
Are they serious? Only the people of Gibraltar have a right to determine their destiny. This is like the United Nations backing China's claim over Hong Kong all the while completely ignoring the input of Hong Kong people, which is exactly what has happened.
The UK must stand with Gibraltar and tell the EU to go fuck itself. They are siding with Spanish fascist imperialists just to spite Britain's decision to Leave. It's absolutely vindictive and immoral.
by Vassenor » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:23 am
Alvecia wrote:New Bremerton wrote:
Are they serious? Only the people of Gibraltar have a right to determine their destiny. This is like the United Nations backing China's claim over Hong Kong all the while completely ignoring the input of Hong Kong people, which is exactly what has happened.
The UK must stand with Gibraltar and tell the EU to go fuck itself. They are siding with Spanish fascist imperialists just to spite Britain's decision to Leave. It's absolutely vindictive and immoral.
It's not really spite, it's just good sense for them.
The EU first and foremost has to look after its members. Now that we're not one, it's under no obligation to support us. Spain on the other hand is still a member, thus it benefits the EU to side with it's member over a non-member.
Thinking they wouldn't is naivety of the highest order.
by Alvecia » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:25 am
The New California Republic wrote:
Well it looks like Gibraltar is going to get fucked in the trade deal if the EU is going to play hardball.
by The New California Republic » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:29 am
The EU will back Spain over its territorial claims to Gibraltar in the next phase of Brexit negotiations by giving Madrid the power to exclude the British overseas territory from any trade deal struck with Brussels.
by The Free Joy State » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:30 am
The New California Republic wrote:The Free Joy State wrote:I think it needs to be a balance. You can't just lock up everyone who is ever jailed forever, simply because you know that prisons have tended to be Universities of Crime and Timmy the Thief may graduate as Timmy the Terrorist (I know that's not your argument, NCR; I'm just saying...). Although more investment in prison staff and rehabilitation is really needed to prevent prisons being Universities of Crime.
I think that judges need to be given more flexibility to sentence based on the risk still posed by that individual. If, upon the point of release it can be demonstrated to a reasonable standard that the prisoner still poses a substantial threat to the community, there should be greater flexibility.
I do believe that a sizable majority of people can and should be rehabilitated, and all effort should be made to do so. But some people will always pose a danger to the public.
The issue also is that a complete review is needed of the deradicalisation techniques used, as it has been pointed out that there is little evidence that they actually work. Prevention is better than cure as well, and since it has been frequently observed that terrorists usually have prior criminal offences, then the link between that and later terrorism should also be explored further, to identify if there is a recognisable point where intervention would work.
Since the root causes of crime are usually poverty and deprivation, then that's also a potential avenue for stopping the problem before it occurs.
by Definitely Not Trumptonium » Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:18 am
The New California Republic wrote:
Well it looks like Gibraltar is going to get fucked in the trade deal if the EU is going to play hardball.
by Gormwood » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:28 am
Vassenor wrote:Alvecia wrote:It's not really spite, it's just good sense for them.
The EU first and foremost has to look after its members. Now that we're not one, it's under no obligation to support us. Spain on the other hand is still a member, thus it benefits the EU to side with it's member over a non-member.
Thinking they wouldn't is naivety of the highest order.
"Naivety of the highest order" kind of sums up Brexit in general if we're quite honest.
by The New California Republic » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:30 am
Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:The New California Republic wrote:Well it looks like Gibraltar is going to get fucked in the trade deal if the EU is going to play hardball.
Not really - Gibraltar follows the rather ironic pattern wherein the regions of the UK who least trade with the EU are those most inclined to support Remain.
Once you look at Gibraltar's economy you realise they will be the least affected from Brexit. Exports make up less than 10% of Gibraltar's economy, while UK military presence makes up about 10% as well. Tourism is about 10% as well, the other quarter-third is domestic consumption, and the rest is a vibrant financial and gambling sector, which is mostly based on the UK economy (e.g. bet365, entirely based in Gibraltar)
by Fartsniffage » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:40 am
The New California Republic wrote:Definitely Not Trumptonium wrote:
Not really - Gibraltar follows the rather ironic pattern wherein the regions of the UK who least trade with the EU are those most inclined to support Remain.
Once you look at Gibraltar's economy you realise they will be the least affected from Brexit. Exports make up less than 10% of Gibraltar's economy, while UK military presence makes up about 10% as well. Tourism is about 10% as well, the other quarter-third is domestic consumption, and the rest is a vibrant financial and gambling sector, which is mostly based on the UK economy (e.g. bet365, entirely based in Gibraltar)
One of the main sectors of the economy is the shipping trade, which will no doubt be negatively affected if Gibraltar is excluded from any trade deal. Coupled with the fact that Gibraltar gets over 50% of its imports from EU nations.
by Ifreann » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:18 am
Fartsniffage wrote:The New California Republic wrote:One of the main sectors of the economy is the shipping trade, which will no doubt be negatively affected if Gibraltar is excluded from any trade deal. Coupled with the fact that Gibraltar gets over 50% of its imports from EU nations.
It also imports around 100% of its food. Seems kinda important...
by Gormwood » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:25 am
by Souseiseki » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:33 am
The envisaged partnership should be underpinned by commitments to respect fundamental rights including adequate protection of personal data, which is an enabler for the cooperation. In this context, the envisaged partnership should provide for automatic termination of the law enforcement cooperation and judicial cooperation in criminal matters if the United Kingdom were to denounce the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR). It should also provide for automatic suspension if the United Kingdom were to abrogate domestic law giving effect to the ECHR, thus making it impossible for individuals to invoke the rights under the ECHR before the United Kingdom’s courts.
by Liriena » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:44 am
Souseiseki wrote:The envisaged partnership should be underpinned by commitments to respect fundamental rights including adequate protection of personal data, which is an enabler for the cooperation. In this context, the envisaged partnership should provide for automatic termination of the law enforcement cooperation and judicial cooperation in criminal matters if the United Kingdom were to denounce the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR). It should also provide for automatic suspension if the United Kingdom were to abrogate domestic law giving effect to the ECHR, thus making it impossible for individuals to invoke the rights under the ECHR before the United Kingdom’s courts.
dear god i am so happy
the UK having law enforcement co-operation ripped away automatically if it tries to fuck with human rights
this is the kind of thing i used to openly daydream about on NSG but thought would never happen but the EU seems to want to actually for it
the UK being rightfully treated for its contempt for human rights and rule of law by becoming a pariah state
throw intelligence sharing in there too
including adequate protection of personal data
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by Gormwood » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:47 am
Liriena wrote:Souseiseki wrote:
dear god i am so happy
the UK having law enforcement co-operation ripped away automatically if it tries to fuck with human rights
this is the kind of thing i used to openly daydream about on NSG but thought would never happen but the EU seems to want to actually for it
the UK being rightfully treated for its contempt for human rights and rule of law by becoming a pariah state
throw intelligence sharing in there tooincluding adequate protection of personal data
wow I can't believe GCHQ got hit with the steel chair while its back was turned
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:49 am
Souseiseki wrote:The envisaged partnership should be underpinned by commitments to respect fundamental rights including adequate protection of personal data, which is an enabler for the cooperation. In this context, the envisaged partnership should provide for automatic termination of the law enforcement cooperation and judicial cooperation in criminal matters if the United Kingdom were to denounce the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR). It should also provide for automatic suspension if the United Kingdom were to abrogate domestic law giving effect to the ECHR, thus making it impossible for individuals to invoke the rights under the ECHR before the United Kingdom’s courts.
dear god i am so happy
the UK having law enforcement co-operation ripped away automatically if it tries to fuck with human rights
this is the kind of thing i used to openly daydream about on NSG but thought would never happen but the EU seems to want to actually for it
the UK being rightfully treated for its contempt for human rights and rule of law by becoming a pariah state
throw intelligence sharing in there too
by The New California Republic » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:57 am
Souseiseki wrote:The envisaged partnership should be underpinned by commitments to respect fundamental rights including adequate protection of personal data, which is an enabler for the cooperation. In this context, the envisaged partnership should provide for automatic termination of the law enforcement cooperation and judicial cooperation in criminal matters if the United Kingdom were to denounce the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR). It should also provide for automatic suspension if the United Kingdom were to abrogate domestic law giving effect to the ECHR, thus making it impossible for individuals to invoke the rights under the ECHR before the United Kingdom’s courts.
dear god i am so happy
the UK having law enforcement co-operation ripped away automatically if it tries to fuck with human rights
by Gormwood » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:58 am
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Souseiseki wrote:
dear god i am so happy
the UK having law enforcement co-operation ripped away automatically if it tries to fuck with human rights
this is the kind of thing i used to openly daydream about on NSG but thought would never happen but the EU seems to want to actually for it
the UK being rightfully treated for its contempt for human rights and rule of law by becoming a pariah state
throw intelligence sharing in there too
You know... looking at this now... it would've been better if UK was still in... because now the hammers are coming down on what is a xeno entity to the wider European system. <.>
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:58 am
New Bremerton wrote:
Are they serious? Only the people of Gibraltar have a right to determine their destiny. This is like the United Nations backing China's claim over Hong Kong all the while completely ignoring the input of Hong Kong people, which is exactly what has happened.
The UK must stand with Gibraltar and tell the EU to go fuck itself. They are siding with Spanish fascist imperialists just to spite Britain's decision to Leave. It's absolutely vindictive and immoral.
by Greater vakolicci haven » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:03 pm
Chan Island wrote:Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Yeah cause kneejerks are just great right?
Kneejerks are not good, but it's obvious that we have to seriously review and reform the way in which we do sentences. We've now had multiple times where we've released crazy madmen and terrorists from prison and they've gone on to immediately go hurt or kill people.
by The East Marches II » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:08 pm
by Greater vakolicci haven » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:09 pm
Souseiseki wrote:The envisaged partnership should be underpinned by commitments to respect fundamental rights including adequate protection of personal data, which is an enabler for the cooperation. In this context, the envisaged partnership should provide for automatic termination of the law enforcement cooperation and judicial cooperation in criminal matters if the United Kingdom were to denounce the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR). It should also provide for automatic suspension if the United Kingdom were to abrogate domestic law giving effect to the ECHR, thus making it impossible for individuals to invoke the rights under the ECHR before the United Kingdom’s courts.
dear god i am so happy
the UK having law enforcement co-operation ripped away automatically if it tries to fuck with human rights
this is the kind of thing i used to openly daydream about on NSG but thought would never happen but the EU seems to want to actually for it
the UK being rightfully treated for its contempt for human rights and rule of law by becoming a pariah state
throw intelligence sharing in there too
by Gormwood » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:10 pm
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Souseiseki wrote:
dear god i am so happy
the UK having law enforcement co-operation ripped away automatically if it tries to fuck with human rights
this is the kind of thing i used to openly daydream about on NSG but thought would never happen but the EU seems to want to actually for it
the UK being rightfully treated for its contempt for human rights and rule of law by becoming a pariah state
throw intelligence sharing in there too
If we lose intel sharing and law enforcement cooperation with the EU by losing ECHR membership, this is a hard decision.
I despise intelligence and law enforcement sharing. I also wish to remain in the ECHR.
by Greater vakolicci haven » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:14 pm
Alvecia wrote:New Bremerton wrote:
Are they serious? Only the people of Gibraltar have a right to determine their destiny. This is like the United Nations backing China's claim over Hong Kong all the while completely ignoring the input of Hong Kong people, which is exactly what has happened.
The UK must stand with Gibraltar and tell the EU to go fuck itself. They are siding with Spanish fascist imperialists just to spite Britain's decision to Leave. It's absolutely vindictive and immoral.
It's not really spite, it's just good sense for them.
The EU first and foremost has to look after its members. Now that we're not one, it's under no obligation to support us. Spain on the other hand is still a member, thus it benefits the EU to side with it's member over a non-member.
Thinking they wouldn't is naivety of the highest order.
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