I dunno man that 1960s battle rifle aesthetic is pretty attractive, I think they might be on to something...
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by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:30 pm
by Kaltovar » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:35 pm
by The Two Jerseys » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:38 pm
by Novus America » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:43 pm
Kaltovar wrote:Novus America wrote:
The R8 has 8 rounds.
Well different strokes for different folks I suppose.
And it depends on the context too. I mean the “x is always best” wanking is fun, but the reality is it depends on personal preference and what context you are using it for TBH.
Sure, user error, bad ammo, lack of maintenance/cleaning, bad mags are the problem in most cases. I guess my problem was I used Navy Beretta 9s, and those were awful.
Because the maintenance, ammo and mags are all shit.
Gave me a really bad aversion to semi autos.
And I find I shoot better with revolvers.
But hey if you want to carry a 9mm semi auto with a magazine bigger than the gun enjoy.
Although revolvers are also less restricted by the gun grabbing nanny state. Which perhaps should not be a problem, but it is a problem in Democrat controlled areas.
Yeah, preference and purpose. In reality most bullets and guns are pretty effective now.
As for military berettas I've heard horror stories, up to and including hearing about them exploding. In my case it's a pretty reliable model (don't want to say because people might track me down ... It's kind of uncommon in my state) firing only Federal 9mm or Blazer, and not only is the gun maintained but I clean and oil my magazines and their springs.
I'll say this ... I've had failures with dirty semi autos that didn't happen when they were cleaned. Usually failure to feed or extract. Some people say "If the gun doesn't work when it's dirty it's not a real gun" and I get that, but a lot of these issues really can be fixed if you just remember to clean it once a week (if you're shooting every week) and in my case that's not a problem because I love doing that.
Never had a problem with dirt I picked up DURING firing, only stuff that's caked on from weeks or months of very heavy use and mixed with sticky/shitty oils.
Also lol for the R8 ... You got me there.
Edit: Federal is my carry round, Blazer is my target shooting round. And yes, I do sometimes bring Federal to the range to keep up to date ... But they perform pretty similarly. Blazer is the cheapest thing around here other than steel case, and fuck steel case.
by Kaltovar » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:43 pm
by Novus America » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:45 pm
by The Chuck » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:49 pm
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by Novus America » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:50 pm
by The Two Jerseys » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:50 pm
by Kaltovar » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:50 pm
Novus America wrote:
As far as the military Berettas go it might be less the guns and more the shitty maintenance, shitty rounds, shitty mags and abuse, but certainly not the guns you want to use. Although they were designed to be quickly and cheaply rushed into service, not made for quality. Also the military only allows FMJ most cases, making 9mm less viable. You get shit FMJ, not high velocity hollow points. Using military ammo the .45 is better.
I acknowledge you can get some real good 9mm rounds, but not in the military. (Although you can get some real good .380 ones too which are a little more compact).
The fact that literally every time we went to the range at least one person had a serious problem made me somewhat adverse to semi autos. I agree it is more based on my personal experience and could be mitigated by not treating the guns so badly.
But comfort and confidence matter, if you do not feel confident in your gun it is less effective for you, so it is a personal, not necessarily fully rational thing.
I like Federal Premium personal defense for actual defense work, but go with whatever cheap stuff for the range mostly. American Eagle (of course made by Federal) I find is pretty good combination of decent price and decent quality. Blazer is good too.
I have never used steel case, but have heard bad things about it.
by Kaltovar » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:51 pm
by The Two Jerseys » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:53 pm
by Loben The 2nd » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:55 pm
by The Two Jerseys » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:57 pm
Loben The 2nd wrote:daily reminder the fal wouldve been better then the M14.
by Novus America » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:59 pm
Kaltovar wrote:Novus America wrote:
As far as the military Berettas go it might be less the guns and more the shitty maintenance, shitty rounds, shitty mags and abuse, but certainly not the guns you want to use. Although they were designed to be quickly and cheaply rushed into service, not made for quality. Also the military only allows FMJ most cases, making 9mm less viable. You get shit FMJ, not high velocity hollow points. Using military ammo the .45 is better.
I acknowledge you can get some real good 9mm rounds, but not in the military. (Although you can get some real good .380 ones too which are a little more compact).
The fact that literally every time we went to the range at least one person had a serious problem made me somewhat adverse to semi autos. I agree it is more based on my personal experience and could be mitigated by not treating the guns so badly.
But comfort and confidence matter, if you do not feel confident in your gun it is less effective for you, so it is a personal, not necessarily fully rational thing.
I like Federal Premium personal defense for actual defense work, but go with whatever cheap stuff for the range mostly. American Eagle (of course made by Federal) I find is pretty good combination of decent price and decent quality. Blazer is good too.
I have never used steel case, but have heard bad things about it.
Stories like this about them is why, even though I love the look of the Beretta 92 and I hear they've been improved a lot in recent years, I will never carry one for self defense.
I won't even pretend to deny that Military 9mm is a lot less effective than Military 45 because of the fact they're all FMJ.
One reason I can't use revolvers very well well, and it's a personal reason regarding the issue of personal comfort, is that I'm actually more accurate when I'm firing rapidly. I'm a decent shot slowly, but my groups are actually tighter when I'm firing as fast as I can. Pretty sure I need to work on not jerking the trigger as much ... I found that I'm using the tip of my finger to squeeze it, but if I press the trigger right into where the joint connects I get a lot less jerk, so I've been having good results doing that. Part of the problem is the gun has a kind of awful glock style trigger safety and a heavy pull, but I'm still a good enough shot with it that I like the added safety because I carry with the manual safety off.
by Novus America » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:01 pm
Loben The 2nd wrote:daily reminder the fal wouldve been better then the M14.
by Hurtful Thoughts » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:33 pm
Kaltovar wrote:Novus America wrote:Sure, user error, bad ammo, lack of maintenance/cleaning, bad mags are the problem in most cases. I guess my problem was I used Navy Beretta 9s, and those were awful.
Because the maintenance, ammo and mags are all shit.
Gave me a really bad aversion to semi autos.
Yeah, preference and purpose. In reality most bullets and guns are pretty effective now.
As for military berettas I've heard horror stories, up to and including hearing about them exploding. In my case it's a pretty reliable model (don't want to say because people might track me down ... It's kind of uncommon in my state) firing only Federal 9mm or Blazer, and not only is the gun maintained but I clean and oil my magazines and their springs.
I'll say this ... I've had failures with dirty semi autos that didn't happen when they were cleaned. Usually failure to feed or extract. Some people say "If the gun doesn't work when it's dirty it's not a real gun" and I get that, but a lot of these issues really can be fixed if you just remember to clean it once a week (if you're shooting every week) and in my case that's not a problem because I love doing that.
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War
Blackhelm Confederacy wrote:If there was only a "like" button for NS posts....
by Diopolis » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:03 pm
Kaltovar wrote:Novus America wrote:
As far as the military Berettas go it might be less the guns and more the shitty maintenance, shitty rounds, shitty mags and abuse, but certainly not the guns you want to use. Although they were designed to be quickly and cheaply rushed into service, not made for quality. Also the military only allows FMJ most cases, making 9mm less viable. You get shit FMJ, not high velocity hollow points. Using military ammo the .45 is better.
I acknowledge you can get some real good 9mm rounds, but not in the military. (Although you can get some real good .380 ones too which are a little more compact).
The fact that literally every time we went to the range at least one person had a serious problem made me somewhat adverse to semi autos. I agree it is more based on my personal experience and could be mitigated by not treating the guns so badly.
But comfort and confidence matter, if you do not feel confident in your gun it is less effective for you, so it is a personal, not necessarily fully rational thing.
I like Federal Premium personal defense for actual defense work, but go with whatever cheap stuff for the range mostly. American Eagle (of course made by Federal) I find is pretty good combination of decent price and decent quality. Blazer is good too.
I have never used steel case, but have heard bad things about it.
Stories like this about them is why, even though I love the look of the Beretta 92 and I hear they've been improved a lot in recent years, I will never carry one for self defense.
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:03 pm
by Hurtful Thoughts » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:13 pm
Not Every FAL is an FN: American enthusiasts have often been shortchanged by rifles that look like FALs but are far from the quality of a true FN. Many outfits and individuals have gotten involved at marrying used (some worn) parts kits from surplus sources with newly made receivers of various qualities. The reality is that most of what is on the U.S. market may look like a FAL but does not function like a true FN FAL. Certainly parts are interchangeable, but building a FAL from new parts or used parts requires expertise. FN used more than 10 different locking shoulder dimensions to achieve the right fit and headspace, most assemblers here use a fraction of that. It is not an easy rifle to assemble: FN’s were built by craftsmen who had numerous parts at their disposal. Much was done by subjective feel, like a custom rifle. If one part did not feel right, it was substituted. In contrast, many of the rifles on the commercial market are a compromise of worn parts, new and used parts, and barrels, many which are worn or of dubious quality. Unless you have fired and owned an FN FAL or a quality made version as made by DSA, you have not truly experienced the classic FAL.
Mokostana wrote:See, Hurty cared not if the mission succeeded or not, as long as it was spectacular trainwreck. Sometimes that was the host Nation firing a SCUD into a hospital to destroy a foreign infection and accidentally sparking a rebellion... or accidentally starting the Mokan Drug War
Blackhelm Confederacy wrote:If there was only a "like" button for NS posts....
by Impaled Nazarene » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:30 am
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."
-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."
by Novus America » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:15 am
Impaled Nazarene wrote:Any recommendations for a high capacity 9mm handgun that isn't going to set me back?
by Taihei Tengoku » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:54 pm
by Novus America » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:10 pm
Taihei Tengoku wrote:The FAL is surprisingly lean for a .308 battle rifle and very well balanced. Shoots softer than you think, too. To think we could've had that over the stinker that was the M14...
by Taihei Tengoku » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:56 pm
Novus America wrote:Taihei Tengoku wrote:The FAL is surprisingly lean for a .308 battle rifle and very well balanced. Shoots softer than you think, too. To think we could've had that over the stinker that was the M14...
Umm the M-14 is not a “stinker”. It is also easier to manufacture, maintain and service given its fewer, fully interchangeable parts.
The FAL offered few benefits and had a more downsides. The US military compared the two and the F-14 was found better suited for US needs.
And the M-14 is still in use by certain military units and specialties.
It is rugged, reliable, accurate and hits just as hard as the FAL.
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