Hong Kong has been Chinese for thousands of years. Even under British colonialism, there was an understanding that it was Chinese and would be returned. And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.
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by Infected Mushroom » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:32 pm
by Novus America » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:33 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Novus America wrote:
It should belong to the Federal Republic of Germany if it wants to be. Not otherwise. Not all historically and ethnically German states are ruled by the Federal Republic of Germany.
Just because a previous government ruled a place does not mean a current government has a right to rule it.
Hong Kong has been continuously Chinese for thousands of years chaining into the present though. That’s the big difference.
Even as a UK colony, the UK forcefully got a lease of Hong Kong, it was never a permanent land grab.
That’s the difference.
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:34 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.
by Pasong Tirad » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:34 pm
Plzen wrote:Arbitrarily-defined geographic spaces have neither intelligence nor interest. It is the people, the real human beings, who inhabit these places who have social, political, or economic interests.
Now of course I do not speak for anyone but myself, but in the absence of evidence to the contrary I would generally assume it to be against the interests of any given human being to have his or her right to assemble and demonstrate be violently suppressed by an authoritarian government.
by Novus America » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:34 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Bombadil wrote:
No it hasn't. China's borders have always been fluid through different dynasties, Guangdong wasn't properly sinicised until the Sui and Tang dynasties. Yet beyond that HK wasn't a thing before the British built it. Regardless, there's no universal law that hold a line in the sand as more important as separate values.
Actually HK island was in perpetuity, the New Territories were on a lease.
Except all your points are wrong.
That’s the point. It’s been part of Chinese dynasties for thousands of years.
by Tuthina » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:35 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Bombadil wrote:
The point is your points are all wrong? Are you saying you're purposely getting everything wrong to show how stupid the CCP points are?
You're doing a great job if so.
Hong Kong has been Chinese for thousands of years. Even under British colonialism, there was an understanding that it was Chinese and would be returned. And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.
11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!
03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
by Sundiata » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:35 pm
by Bombadil » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:36 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Bombadil wrote:
The point is your points are all wrong? Are you saying you're purposely getting everything wrong to show how stupid the CCP points are?
You're doing a great job if so.
Hong Kong has been Chinese for thousands of years. Even under British colonialism, there was an understanding that it was Chinese and would be returned. And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.
by Pasong Tirad » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:36 pm
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:37 pm
Sundiata wrote:The people of Hong Kong are blessed and deserve assistance, militaristic if need be, in their struggle against communism.
by Novus America » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:38 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Tuthina wrote:Unless you happen to be born south of the Boundary Street, or is among the 50 thousand families that manage to get British Citizenship, I guess.
There is never a duty of loyalty to the state. If anything, the movement has shown many that maybe it's for the best that Hong Kong should no longer be part of China, or at least, this China.
I don’t agree. It will always be in Hong Kong’s interest to be part of a great power.
by Infected Mushroom » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:39 pm
Bombadil wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
Hong Kong has been Chinese for thousands of years. Even under British colonialism, there was an understanding that it was Chinese and would be returned. And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.
Regardless.. because god knows this is pointless.. it's irrelevant when their values are diametrically opposed to those of the CCP. HK is not pretending to be a separate nation wanting independence, and often in those cases decent countries allow referendums where that's the case.
What HK cannot accept is for its people, who enjoy freedoms not enjoyed in China, to be assimilated into China much as the Uyghers are.
It's unacceptable.
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:39 pm
Novus America wrote:So a great power gets to conquer at will?
by Bombadil » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:40 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Regardless.. because god knows this is pointless.. it's irrelevant when their values are diametrically opposed to those of the CCP. HK is not pretending to be a separate nation wanting independence, and often in those cases decent countries allow referendums where that's the case.
What HK cannot accept is for its people, who enjoy freedoms not enjoyed in China, to be assimilated into China much as the Uyghers are.
It's unacceptable.
There’s general acceptance of China. Only a small percentage of radical protestors support independence.
by Novus America » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:40 pm
by Tuthina » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:41 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Regardless.. because god knows this is pointless.. it's irrelevant when their values are diametrically opposed to those of the CCP. HK is not pretending to be a separate nation wanting independence, and often in those cases decent countries allow referendums where that's the case.
What HK cannot accept is for its people, who enjoy freedoms not enjoyed in China, to be assimilated into China much as the Uyghers are.
It's unacceptable.
There’s general acceptance of China. Only a small percentage of radical protestors support independence.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.
11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!
03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
by Infected Mushroom » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:41 pm
Novus America wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
I don’t agree. It will always be in Hong Kong’s interest to be part of a great power.
So then you are saying it benefited say Poland to be ruled by the Russian Empire and Nazi Germany just because it was part of a “great power”? So a great power gets to conquer at will?
by Novus America » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:42 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Regardless.. because god knows this is pointless.. it's irrelevant when their values are diametrically opposed to those of the CCP. HK is not pretending to be a separate nation wanting independence, and often in those cases decent countries allow referendums where that's the case.
What HK cannot accept is for its people, who enjoy freedoms not enjoyed in China, to be assimilated into China much as the Uyghers are.
It's unacceptable.
There’s general acceptance of China. Only a small percentage of radical protestors support independence.
by Novus America » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:42 pm
by Pasong Tirad » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:43 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Regardless.. because god knows this is pointless.. it's irrelevant when their values are diametrically opposed to those of the CCP. HK is not pretending to be a separate nation wanting independence, and often in those cases decent countries allow referendums where that's the case.
What HK cannot accept is for its people, who enjoy freedoms not enjoyed in China, to be assimilated into China much as the Uyghers are.
It's unacceptable.
There’s general acceptance of China. Only a small percentage of radical protestors support independence.
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:43 pm
Novus America wrote:Acceptance of China yes. CCP tyranny no.
There can be and is a China without CCP tyranny.
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:What if loyalty to a nation and loyalty to an unjust, terrorising, ethnic cleansing, imperialist-colonialist reich are two different things?
by Genivaria » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:44 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Bombadil wrote:
The point is your points are all wrong? Are you saying you're purposely getting everything wrong to show how stupid the CCP points are?
You're doing a great job if so.
Hong Kong has been Chinese for thousands of years. Even under British colonialism, there was an understanding that it was Chinese and would be returned. And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.
by Bombadil » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:45 pm
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:46 pm
Genivaria wrote:And as the CCP openly says they represent the Communist Party NOT all the people of China.
That's why the PLA swears loyalty to the CCP and not to China.
by Infected Mushroom » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:47 pm
Genivaria wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
Hong Kong has been Chinese for thousands of years. Even under British colonialism, there was an understanding that it was Chinese and would be returned. And yes, I know there were many Chinese dynasties.
And as the CCP openly says they represent the Communist Party NOT all the people of China.
That's why the PLA swears loyalty to the CCP and not to China.
if anything the CCP are closer to illegitimate occupiers, at least the ROC says they represent CHINESE people and not just a single party.
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