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UK Politics Thread XI: Boris' Big Bombastic Brexit Bash

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who do you support to become the next Labour Party Leader?

Clive Lewis (DROPPED OUT)
2
2%
Keir Starmer (Shadow Brexit Secretary, MP for Holborn and St Pancras)
48
41%
Lisa Nandy (MP for Wigan)
11
9%
Jess Phillips (DROPPED OUT)
17
15%
Emily Thornberry (Shadow First Secretary of State, MP for Islington South and Finsbury)
7
6%
Yvette Cooper (DROPPED OUT)
1
1%
Dan Jarvis (DROPPED OUT)
1
1%
Ian Lavery (DROPPED OUT)
1
1%
Rebecca Long Bailey (Shadow Business Secretary, MP for Salford and Eccles)
17
15%
Other (Please state who in a reply)
11
9%
 
Total votes : 116

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:53 am

Vassenor wrote:I would argue that the social stigma is the same for "sex offender", "Sexual assaulter" and "rapist" given that we've previously had arguments on here that a lower-grade sexual assault conviction would ruin someone's life completely.


1. You might argue that but it wouldn't make it true. "Rapist" is considerably worse, even if all are bad. You have no evidence of this.
2. You're ignoring my point that the feminist lobbies mentioned are specifically going after rape convictions and trying to badger the police and courts into violating due process. As has been demonstrated, penetration is required to rape. So your post where you try and whine about how i'm only concerned with mens due process is misinformed in its totality, even if you ignore that even without this problem it's as dumb an argument as pretending the drug war isn't racist because sometimes white hippies also go to jail.

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Please don’t lump me in with MRA types. I’m a MensLib follower myself. I don’t see feminism or women as having orchestrated an evil conspiracy in the law against men. I think that’s a minor discrepancy that should be fixed in due course in the interests of symbolism and consistency.


I also don't think there's a conspiracy. There's a difference between myopic and misandrist bias and a conspiracy. Prejudice does not require intent.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Definitely Not Trumptonium
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Postby Definitely Not Trumptonium » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:19 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Bombadil wrote:As he's a complete muppet Johnson wants to write a law making it illegal for the UK to leave after 2020. That is he's placed an arbitrary limit on himself that creates a poor hand for negotiations.

Link


Leaving without a deal is still illegal I assume? And he has given himself until December 2020 to agree a trade deal.

Presumably he will just resort to not obeying laws again.


He has a parliamentary majority, therefore he can very simply rescind that law.
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Definitely Not Trumptonium
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Postby Definitely Not Trumptonium » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:20 am

Vassenor wrote:>The PM made his ministers chant false campaign claims about nurse and hospital numbers as he assembled his cabinet for the first time since the election.

What the actual fuck is going on in Boris' head?


Do you have evidence that the claims are false from reputable sources such as the Times or the Telegraph?
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Fartsniffage
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Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:20 am

My uncle died last week and his funeral is on Thursday. Just found out that the after party is being held at a Conservative club.

I cannot get away from the fucking Torys this week. :mad:

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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:22 am

Fartsniffage wrote:My uncle died last week and his funeral is on Thursday. Just found out that the after party is being held at a Conservative club.

I cannot get away from the fucking Torys this week. :mad:

I'm sorry.
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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:24 am

Fartsniffage wrote:My uncle died last week and his funeral is on Thursday. Just found out that the after party is being held at a Conservative club.

I cannot get away from the fucking Torys this week. :mad:

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The BlAAtschApen
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Postby The BlAAtschApen » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:28 am

Fartsniffage wrote:My uncle died last week and his funeral is on Thursday. Just found out that the after party is being held at a Conservative club.

I cannot get away from the fucking Torys this week. :mad:


The conservatives have parties when people die?

This explains a lot...
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:41 am

Fartsniffage wrote:My uncle died last week and his funeral is on Thursday. Just found out that the after party is being held at a Conservative club.

I cannot get away from the fucking Torys this week. :mad:


Condolences. May your uncle rest in peace.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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SD_Film Artists
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:28 am

I'm hopeful for Jess Phillips in the Labour leadership as she's been very vocal in supporting autistic rights and she has recognised that Labour needs moderates to win.
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:38 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:I'm hopeful for Jess Phillips in the Labour leadership as she's been very vocal in supporting autistic rights and she has recognised that Labour needs moderates to win.


She also publicly opposed International Men's Day and continuously sneers at male problems. The Men's Rights Movement will kick into overdrive and become properly mainstream if she's Labour leader... and it won't be in support of Labour, trust me.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:39 am

Chan Island wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:I'm hopeful for Jess Phillips in the Labour leadership as she's been very vocal in supporting autistic rights and she has recognised that Labour needs moderates to win.


She also publicly opposed International Men's Day and continuously sneers at male problems. The Men's Rights Movement will kick into overdrive and become properly mainstream if she's Labour leader... and it won't be in support of Labour, trust me.


You make that sound like that's not what they want to happen.
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The BlAAtschApen
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Postby The BlAAtschApen » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:40 am

Chan Island wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:I'm hopeful for Jess Phillips in the Labour leadership as she's been very vocal in supporting autistic rights and she has recognised that Labour needs moderates to win.


She also publicly opposed International Men's Day and continuously sneers at male problems. The Men's Rights Movement will kick into overdrive and become properly mainstream if she's Labour leader... and it won't be in support of Labour, trust me.


I'd have a hard time believing if anywhere it would be in support of the main left wing party.

Most Men's right movement people I've heard about and talked to (Ostro not withstanding) are on the right side of politics.
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:53 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:I'm hopeful for Jess Phillips in the Labour leadership as she's been very vocal in supporting autistic rights and she has recognised that Labour needs moderates to win.

I don't support anybody who defends domestic violence and is pretty clearly sexist.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:56 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
She also publicly opposed International Men's Day and continuously sneers at male problems. The Men's Rights Movement will kick into overdrive and become properly mainstream if she's Labour leader... and it won't be in support of Labour, trust me.


I'd have a hard time believing if anywhere it would be in support of the main left wing party.

Most Men's right movement people I've heard about and talked to (Ostro not withstanding) are on the right side of politics.

Last time I recall they did a poll on it, which has been a few years (we discussed it on NS), it was pretty even split between left, right, and center.

They sorta defy classification in this regard, or at least did.
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The BlAAtschApen
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Postby The BlAAtschApen » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:01 am

Galloism wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
I'd have a hard time believing if anywhere it would be in support of the main left wing party.

Most Men's right movement people I've heard about and talked to (Ostro not withstanding) are on the right side of politics.

Last time I recall they did a poll on it, which has been a few years (we discussed it on NS), it was pretty even split between left, right, and center.

They sorta defy classification in this regard, or at least did.


Who is they? :unsure:
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:05 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Last time I recall they did a poll on it, which has been a few years (we discussed it on NS), it was pretty even split between left, right, and center.

They sorta defy classification in this regard, or at least did.


Who is they? :unsure:

The MRM.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:06 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Last time I recall they did a poll on it, which has been a few years (we discussed it on NS), it was pretty even split between left, right, and center.

They sorta defy classification in this regard, or at least did.


Who is they? :unsure:


The MRM conducts demographic surveys on its adherents.

LGBT at 20%.
Mostly male, but a substantial minority of women.
Mostly white, same.
Mostly working and middle class.
Mostly in relationships, in line with population norms.
Mostly under 40.
Split between social Democrats, centrist, and Libertarians, with Socialists coming 4th and "conservative" being 5th. Fascist, anarchist and communist below those.
Retail, IT and Finance are the main occupations, but a substantial and unrepresentative portion are Male educators.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:20 am

Vassenor wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
She also publicly opposed International Men's Day and continuously sneers at male problems. The Men's Rights Movement will kick into overdrive and become properly mainstream if she's Labour leader... and it won't be in support of Labour, trust me.


You make that sound like that's not what they want to happen.


Left wing MRAs don't. Entrenching mens issues into the right wing is something we view as the Bad outcome because we believe tax and spend is the best way to resolve them. That said, I would vote for a right wing MRA over a left wing feminist, while pressuring for the left to reform from within as a party member.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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South Odreria 2
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Postby South Odreria 2 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:22 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:I'm hopeful for Jess Phillips in the Labour leadership as she's been very vocal in supporting autistic rights and she has recognised that Labour needs moderates to win.

Reality please. She claims that the way for Labour to win is to be an ardent remoaner and laugh at suicide. She is even worse than Yvette Cooper - while Cooper projects a generalized hatred towards ordinary people, Phillips thinks its funny when they die.
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SD_Film Artists
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:27 am

Chan Island wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:I'm hopeful for Jess Phillips in the Labour leadership as she's been very vocal in supporting autistic rights and she has recognised that Labour needs moderates to win.


She also publicly opposed International Men's Day and continuously sneers at male problems. The Men's Rights Movement will kick into overdrive and become properly mainstream if she's Labour leader... and it won't be in support of Labour, trust me.


Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:I'm hopeful for Jess Phillips in the Labour leadership as she's been very vocal in supporting autistic rights and she has recognised that Labour needs moderates to win.

I don't support anybody who defends domestic violence and is pretty clearly sexist.



You mean genuine male problems such as being screwed by the family courts or just 'why don't let you let me have a men's day which I'm only asking for to protest against women's day??"
Last edited by SD_Film Artists on Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:32 am, edited 4 times in total.
Lurking NSG since 2005
Economic Left/Right: -2.62, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.67

When anybody preaches disunity, tries to pit one of us against each other through class warfare, race hatred, or religious intolerance, you know that person seeks to rob us of our freedom and destroy our very lives.

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:29 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
She also publicly opposed International Men's Day and continuously sneers at male problems. The Men's Rights Movement will kick into overdrive and become properly mainstream if she's Labour leader... and it won't be in support of Labour, trust me.


Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I don't support anybody who defends domestic violence and is pretty clearly sexist.



You mean genuine male problems such as being screwed by the family courts or just 'why don't let you let me have a men's day which I'm only asking for to protest against women's day??"


That's a pretty paranoid and telling admission from you a you assume that's the reason fo international mens day support. Misandry much?

IMD tends to involve awareness campaigns and fundraising for mens issues. Not protesting women's day. Don't repeat misandist lies if you want people to think you're not a misandist. Phillip's also uses this argument which is why almost nobody likes her and people conclude she is a misandist.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Chan Island
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Inoffensive Centrist Autocracy

Postby Chan Island » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:29 am

South Odreria 2 wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:I'm hopeful for Jess Phillips in the Labour leadership as she's been very vocal in supporting autistic rights and she has recognised that Labour needs moderates to win.

Reality please. She claims that the way for Labour to win is to be an ardent remoaner and laugh at suicide. She is even worse than Yvette Cooper - while Cooper projects a generalized hatred towards ordinary people, Phillips thinks its funny when they die.


Damn, thanks for reminding me of that time she laughed at male suicide. That was terrible.

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
She also publicly opposed International Men's Day and continuously sneers at male problems. The Men's Rights Movement will kick into overdrive and become properly mainstream if she's Labour leader... and it won't be in support of Labour, trust me.


I'd have a hard time believing if anywhere it would be in support of the main left wing party.

Most Men's right movement people I've heard about and talked to (Ostro not withstanding) are on the right side of politics.


They actually could, as explained by Ostro, easily end up supporting the left. Apart from the demographic information, it's important to note that they are a group with specific policy goals in many instances- and what's to stop a left wing populist from talking about having to fix the economy and inequality to reduce suicide rates?

Besides, even if they were a group bound to break right, that's no reason to further encourage them and energise them by making the MRM public enemy number 1 the leader of her majesty's most loyal opposition.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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South Odreria 2
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Ex-Nation

Postby South Odreria 2 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:29 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
She also publicly opposed International Men's Day and continuously sneers at male problems. The Men's Rights Movement will kick into overdrive and become properly mainstream if she's Labour leader... and it won't be in support of Labour, trust me.


Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I don't support anybody who defends domestic violence and is pretty clearly sexist.



You mean genuine male problems such as being screwed by the family courts or just 'why don't let you let me have a men's day which I'm only asking for to protest against women's day??"

The first one. When asked, she laughed hilariously at men committing suicide.
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Chan Island
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Inoffensive Centrist Autocracy

Postby Chan Island » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:31 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
She also publicly opposed International Men's Day and continuously sneers at male problems. The Men's Rights Movement will kick into overdrive and become properly mainstream if she's Labour leader... and it won't be in support of Labour, trust me.


Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I don't support anybody who defends domestic violence and is pretty clearly sexist.



You mean genuine male problems such as being screwed by the family courts or just 'why don't let you let me have a men's day which I'm only asking for to protest against women's day??"


The first one, completely. The clowns who would pick the second option absolutely deserve to become a maligned outgroup. But Jess Phillips has a hard time understanding that first option.
Last edited by Chan Island on Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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SD_Film Artists
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Posts: 13400
Founded: Jun 10, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby SD_Film Artists » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:31 am

South Odreria 2 wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:I'm hopeful for Jess Phillips in the Labour leadership as she's been very vocal in supporting autistic rights and she has recognised that Labour needs moderates to win.

Reality please. She claims that the way for Labour to win is to be an ardent remoaner and laugh at suicide. She is even worse than Yvette Cooper - while Cooper projects a generalized hatred towards ordinary people, Phillips thinks its funny when they die.


I don't know about her statements on suicide but being a remoaner can only be a good thing.
Lurking NSG since 2005
Economic Left/Right: -2.62, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.67

When anybody preaches disunity, tries to pit one of us against each other through class warfare, race hatred, or religious intolerance, you know that person seeks to rob us of our freedom and destroy our very lives.

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