White house council on Men and Boys to be founded

[Gormwood]

Which nobody complained about until the bitches women started getting rights.

Wait, are you arguing discrimination is OK to continue forever if you don't address it within a certain timeframe? Seriously?

Much as you wish for a gotcha, nobody cared about men being disproportionately incarcerated or losing custody when women were little more than housekeepers and sex toy properties for men. Only when women started getting rights did certain men suddenly become bothered with such things.

[Ors Might]

Wait, are you arguing discrimination is OK to continue forever if you don't address it within a certain timeframe? Seriously?

Much as you wish for a gotcha, nobody cared about men being disproportionately incarcerated or losing custody when women were little more than housekeepers and sex toy properties for men. Only when women started getting rights did certain men suddenly become bothered with such things.

..Yeah because they didn’t know they were allowed to be bothered with such things. Why are you complaining about men becoming conscious of sexism directed at them?

[Estanglia]

Wait, are you arguing discrimination is OK to continue forever if you don't address it within a certain timeframe? Seriously?

Much as you wish for a gotcha, nobody cared about men being disproportionately incarcerated or losing custody when women were little more than housekeepers and sex toy properties for men. Only when women started getting rights did certain men suddenly become bothered with such things.

Ah yes, "People of the past didn't care about specific issue x affecting men so people of today can't care about specific issue x cuz reasons".

Unless you're saying they can, which makes bringing this up as an argument odd.

[Andsed]

Wait, are you arguing discrimination is OK to continue forever if you don't address it within a certain timeframe? Seriously?

Much as you wish for a gotcha, nobody cared about men being disproportionately incarcerated or losing custody when women were little more than housekeepers and sex toy properties for men. Only when women started getting rights did certain men suddenly become bothered with such things.

And that matters when discussing how much this council is warranted how?

[Gormwood]

Much as you wish for a gotcha, nobody cared about men being disproportionately incarcerated or losing custody when women were little more than housekeepers and sex toy properties for men. Only when women started getting rights did certain men suddenly become bothered with such things.

..Yeah because they didn’t know they were allowed to be bothered with such things. Why are you complaining about men becoming conscious of sexism directed at them?

Complaining? Just pointing out the movement is coopted by men wishing women would just shut the fuck about their Insignificant problems if not nostalgic for the days when women were just housekeepers and sex toy properties.

[Ors Might]

..Yeah because they didn’t know they were allowed to be bothered with such things. Why are you complaining about men becoming conscious of sexism directed at them?

Complaining? Just pointing out the movement is coopted by men wishing women would just shut the fuck about their Insignificant problems if not nostalgic for the days when women were just housekeepers and sex toy properties.

Okay Gauth, what in the fuck? Disproportionate incarceration is insignificant? Complete silencing of sexual assault and domestic violence survivors is insignificant? What in the actual fuck sort of argument do you think you’re making?

[Gormwood]

Complaining? Just pointing out the movement is coopted by men wishing women would just shut the fuck about their Insignificant problems if not nostalgic for the days when women were just housekeepers and sex toy properties.

Okay Gauth, what in the fuck? Disproportionate incarceration is insignificant? Complete silencing of sexual assault and domestic violence survivors is insignificant? What in the actual fuck sort of argument do you think you’re making?

That women would shut up about issues they have, which said men dismiss as insignificant.

[Ors Might]

Okay Gauth, what in the fuck? Disproportionate incarceration is insignificant? Complete silencing of sexual assault and domestic violence survivors is insignificant? What in the actual fuck sort of argument do you think you’re making?

Thar women would shut up about issues they have, which said men dismiss as insignificant.

Ah. My bad.

Correction: What in the actual fuck? Why is your immediate response to men bringing up problems that they face is to accuse them of sexism?

[Gormwood]

Thar women would shut up about issues they have, which said men dismiss as insignificant.

Ah. My bad.

Correction: What in the actual fuck? Why is your immediate response to men bringing up problems that they face is to accuse them of sexism?

Because from what I've sampled here on NSG they're usually little more than pretenses to complain about how women have too much rights. Even Men Supposedly Going Their Own Way keep complaining about women.

[Galloism]

Wait, are you arguing discrimination is OK to continue forever if you don't address it within a certain timeframe? Seriously?

Much as you wish for a gotcha, nobody cared about men being disproportionately incarcerated or losing custody when women were little more than housekeepers and sex toy properties for men. Only when women started getting rights did certain men suddenly become bothered with such things.

Worth note, that men were primary custody holders for millenia. It was thanks to proto-feminist efforts (to make up a quasi-appropriate term) that we now have the current sexist situation.

Before that we had an opposite sexist situation. The current paradigm is only a little over 100 years old.

But, that being said, are you arguing that if you fail to make a movement about discrimination within X years of discrimination taking place, it should stand forever? Are you sure?

[Ors Might]

Ah. My bad.

Correction: What in the actual fuck? Why is your immediate response to men bringing up problems that they face is to accuse them of sexism?

Because from what I've sampled here on NSG they're usually little more than pretenses to complain about how women have too much rights. Even Men Supposedly Going Their Own Way keep complaining about women.

Like when we complain about sexual and domestic violence against men? Where’s the misogyny there?

It sounds like to me that you just hate the fact that men are beginning to recognize that they face sexism.

[Costa Fierro]

Much as you wish for a gotcha, nobody cared about men being disproportionately incarcerated or losing custody when women were little more than housekeepers and sex toy properties for men. Only when women started getting rights did certain men suddenly become bothered with such things.

Worth note, that men were primary custody holders for millenia. It was thanks to proto-feminist efforts (to make up a quasi-appropriate term) that we now have the current sexist situation.

Before that we had an opposite sexist situation. The current paradigm is only a little over 100 years old.

But, that being said, are you arguing that if you fail to make a movement about discrimination within X years of discrimination taking place, it should stand forever? Are you sure?

At some point we have to wonder whether or not he's doing this purely out of spite.

[Galloism]

Ah. My bad.

Correction: What in the actual fuck? Why is your immediate response to men bringing up problems that they face is to accuse them of sexism?

Because from what I've sampled here on NSG they're usually little more than pretenses to complain about how women have too much rights. Even Men Supposedly Going Their Own Way keep complaining about women.

How did you manage to get your hands on a transuniverse ethernet cable?

Those are highly restricted in our universe.

[Galloism]

Worth note, that men were primary custody holders for millenia. It was thanks to proto-feminist efforts (to make up a quasi-appropriate term) that we now have the current sexist situation.

Before that we had an opposite sexist situation. The current paradigm is only a little over 100 years old.

But, that being said, are you arguing that if you fail to make a movement about discrimination within X years of discrimination taking place, it should stand forever? Are you sure?

At some point we have to wonder whether or not he's doing this purely out of spite.

Probably not.

There's plenty of examples in this thread of people who are brainwashed into thinking men have no problems as a group, and if that's your frame of mind, ANY addressing of men's problems looks like sexism against women.

Let's try disproportionate incarceration. Men get over 60% more time for the same crimes as women.

There's a couple of fixes:

1) We could incarcerate women like men. This would necessarily entail reducing the rights of women perpetrators by putting them in prison for longer.
2) We could incarcerate men like women. This would necessarily entail reducing the rights of women victims by seeing their male perpetrators put in prison for less time for crimes against them.
3) We could mix, and make it slightly reducing the rights of both groups of women.

Ouch.

How about the ACA de jure discrimination on birth control?

1) We could give men birth control like women. Given the community guidelines, this would necessarily involve raising premiums for women, as they would have to cover male birth control.
2) We could stop giving women birth control like men. This would necessarily involve reducing their access to birth control.

Oops.

What about the discrimination against men in schools?

1) We could raise boy's grades to reflect their actual performance. This would necessarily mean more competition for women going to college, reducing their access.
2) We could lower girl's grades like we do boys. This would necessarily make it harder for them to compete in going to college, reducing their access.

Felony disenfranchisement?

We could eliminate felony disenfranchisement, raising men's voices in the political sphere. But this necessarily reduces women's voice in the political sphere, as they no longer have an outsized influence due to felony disenfranchisement.

I see why Gauth comes to his conclusion. It's just that what he fails to realize is that these are already sexist things, and fixing them requires correction to a nonsexist position.

[Tybra]

Ah. My bad.

Correction: What in the actual fuck? Why is your immediate response to men bringing up problems that they face is to accuse them of sexism?

Because from what I've sampled here on NSG they're usually little more than pretenses to complain about how women have too much rights. Even Men Supposedly Going Their Own Way keep complaining about women.

I can kind of understand the argument behind this. If my presumption is correct, i's an argument that has been popping up in the 21st century, though very little before that time. Basically there are people that only ever mention men's issues when women's issues are brought up. Not in a genuine way to involve men's issues but to actively derail a conversation. For example, someone would mention men's rights only to say how women ruin everything rather then actually trying to find concrete ways to address the issues men have.

Except that would the sole reason as to why i would support the creation of of this council under Trump as it would allow for a separate track to specifically address issues men face. It would allow for providing concrete proposals on issues men face and disempower those that abuse these issue to derail conversations about women's issues.

[Proctopeo]

Felony disenfranchisement? Blame conservatives. See: Florida (prominent example).
And since when can men give birth? Come back and complain about "birth control discrimination" once men start being pregnant and giving birth in large numbers.

Nothing you said in this post has shown why this council is not a good idea. Felony disenfranchisement is a problem no matter who is to blame for it. And birth control discrimination of males is relating to male contraceptives. Not to mention the several other issues you did not address at all.

Such as, IIRC, male rape victims being forced to pay child support to their rapist.

[Rojava Free State]

..Yeah because they didn’t know they were allowed to be bothered with such things. Why are you complaining about men becoming conscious of sexism directed at them?

Complaining? Just pointing out the movement is coopted by men wishing women would just shut the fuck about their Insignificant problems if not nostalgic for the days when women were just housekeepers and sex toy properties.

That's not at all what the movement is about, anymore than feminism is man hating. Stop being dishonest, we as men have problems that we wanna fix

[The Black Forrest]

Complaining? Just pointing out the movement is coopted by men wishing women would just shut the fuck about their Insignificant problems if not nostalgic for the days when women were just housekeepers and sex toy properties.

That's not at all what the movement is about, anymore than feminism is man hating. Stop being dishonest, we as men have problems that we wanna fix

The problem is the fixing seems to get lost in the "we have to fight feminism" effort.

Which at this juncture; it's a waste to argue since there is rather large possibility nothing will be done under this administration.

[Rojava Free State]

That's not at all what the movement is about, anymore than feminism is man hating. Stop being dishonest, we as men have problems that we wanna fix

The problem is the fixing seems to get lost in the "we have to fight feminism" effort.

Which at this juncture; it's a waste to argue since there is rather large possibility nothing will be done under this administration.

Trump only cares about himself so I doubt this will help men all that much. And I don't think most of us hate women having rights. We just don't like when certain women want more rights than men. Both genders should be treated the same

[Galloism]

That's not at all what the movement is about, anymore than feminism is man hating. Stop being dishonest, we as men have problems that we wanna fix

The problem is the fixing seems to get lost in the "we have to fight feminism" effort.

I mean, it doesn't help that they've positioned themselves as the opposition to equality for men. When someone continually stands in the way of your drive towards equality, it generally becomes necessary to fight them to get through them.

You might as well ask why so much of the democratic agenda revolves around fighting Donald Trump - because he's placed himself as the opposition to normalcy.

[US-SSR]

The White House chapter of NAMBLA?

[Galloism]

The White House chapter of NAMBLA?

No.

[Ors Might]

The White House chapter of NAMBLA?

Somebody already ninja’d that joke, mate

[Cekoviu]

The White House chapter of NAMBLA?

How dare you imply that the White House would ever support men sexually assaulting boys? It only supports heterosexual sexual assault between two non-consenting adults!

[Galloism]

The White House chapter of NAMBLA?

How dare you imply that the White House would ever support men sexually assaulting boys? It only supports heterosexual sexual assault between two non-consenting adults!

10/10.