Hong Kong

[Rojava Free State]

Why would you be rewarded? You wouldn't do anything to help.

If IM hopes the Chinese government will reward him, that strongly implies he would not just lay low during the conflict but aid the government by any means within his grasp. Such as Tekashi 6ix9ining any protestors to the Hong Kong authorities. A Canadian fanboy of Chinese authoritarianism. Tragic and disgusting at once.

Holiday in Cambodia was about people like him

[Ethel mermania]

Your problem is Hong Kong is Chinese territory.

..but not their values, and by they I mean the CCP under Xi Jinping.

It was taken from them in the 19th century, and given back at the end of the 20th. The Chinese view that period of history as part of their national humiliation. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but Hong Kong will be assimilated back into Chinese society as Beijing sees it.

We cannot accept that as set in stone, why should we have to change?

I dont think the western world would support a revolution in HK, I certainly see why a HK'er would, and if I were watching my fellow citizens being shot down, I probably would too, though I have few illusions about how it would turn out. If I had family there, I would try and get them out.

Then face the hypocrisy of standing for values you don't truly believe in.

I think, for many in HK, we have accepted the futility and decided to go against it anyway. Maybe it's a million to one chance but, hey, that's still a chance, a chance that's lost by just giving in.

It is better to live on your knees than die on your feet.

I am not being hypocritical, I like western liberal democracy, I think it's the best system we have come up with for people's overall happiness, but it's not everywhere, and its dangerous to think and act as it is. China has never been democratic in nature and within the next 20 years I do not see anything short of war making it so.

[SD_Film Artists]

It is better to live on your knees than die on your feet.

But one day the person living on their knees will die, and that will be a coward's death.

[Ethel mermania]

It is better to live on your knees than die on your feet.

But one day the person living on their knees will die, and that will be a coward's death.

Everyone dies. Change can only happen if you live.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

But one day the person living on their knees will die, and that will be a coward's death.

Everyone dies. Change can only happen if you live.

What is better: to enact change even if it involves your own death, or to continue living on the condition that you never try to change things?

[Ethel mermania]

Everyone dies. Change can only happen if you live.

What is better: to enact change even if it involves your own death, or to continue living on the condition that you never try to change things?

Continue to live, and work towards the change

[Satuga]

Everyone dies. Change can only happen if you live.

What is better: to enact change even if it involves your own death, or to continue living on the condition that you never try to change things?

It all depends on context, for instance if the "never change" is "don't rape or murder people" then I would have to agree however if it's like the CCP then yeah id rather try and change things even if it means die trying.

[Phoenicaea]

^ancient greeks quite created a solve of this, if you wish have your search on it.

[Satuga]

^ancient greeks quite created a solve of this, if you wish have your search on it.

Are you talking about ancient greeks in term of the question "Which is Better?" or the fact my nations flag is a hydra?

[Phoenicaea]

^ _Satuga, in the terms of the debate. i wasn t able to tie it with myths of yours, through the flag.*

*ps. i commend, it is a good flag, original yet essential, optimus.

[Satuga]

^ _Satuga, in the terms of the debate. i wasn t able to tie it with myths of yours, through the flag.*

*ps. i commend, it is a good flag, original yet essential, optimus.

Thanks, also Ill research the ancient greeks view on this dilemma later.

[Sovaal]

But one day the person living on their knees will die, and that will be a coward's death.

Everyone dies. Change can only happen if you live.

And choosing to live on your knees isn't change, now is it? No social movement in human history ever happened because people chose to lay down and accept the status quo.

[Ethel mermania]

Everyone dies. Change can only happen if you live.

And choosing to live on your knees isn't change, now is it? No social movement in human history ever happened because people chose to lay down and accept the status quo.

Nately: You talk like a madman.

Old Man: But I live like a sane one. I was a Fascist when Mussolini was on top. Now that he has been deposed, I am anti-Fascist. When the Germans were here, I was fanatically pro-German. Now I'm fanatically pro-America! You'll find no more loyal partisan in all of Italy than myself.


Nately's Girl: When we go to America, Nately?

Old Man: You will take her to America? Away from a healthy, active life? Away from good business opportunities? Away from her friends?

Nately: Don't you have any principles?

Old Man: Of course not.

Nately: No morality?

Old Man: I'm a very moral man. And Italy is a very moral country. That's why we will certainly come out on top again if we succeed in being defeated.


Nately: What are you talking about? America's not going to be destroyed.

Old Man: Never?

Nately: Well...

Old Man: Rome was destroyed. Greece was destroyed. Persia was destroyed. Spain was destroyed. All great countries are destroyed. Why not yours?How much longer do you think your country will last? Forever?

Nately: Forever is a long time, I guess.

Old Man: Very long.


Old Man: You all crazy!

Nately: Why are we crazy?

Old Man: Because you don't know how to stay alive, and that's the secret of life

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Think of all this as taking place in the same magical parallel universe that you concocted where everything goes your way, except it goes my way.

No I’m talking about America now

Even with Free Joys’ polls it showed that close to 50 percent of Americans don’t vote

And we all know about the notorious bi partisan hatred

In the magical world that is similar to your parallel dimension where everything goes good way (Mine in this case) 100% of Americans vote.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

..but not their values, and by they I mean the CCP under Xi Jinping.



We cannot accept that as set in stone, why should we have to change?



Then face the hypocrisy of standing for values you don't truly believe in.

I think, for many in HK, we have accepted the futility and decided to go against it anyway. Maybe it's a million to one chance but, hey, that's still a chance, a chance that's lost by just giving in.

It is better to live on your knees than die on your feet.

I am not being hypocritical, I like western liberal democracy.

These two statements are contradictory. Western liberal democracies were built by people more willing to die on their feet than to live on their knees.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Your problem is hong kong is chinese territory. It was taken from them in the 19th century, and given back at the end of the 20th. The chinese view that period of history as part of their national humiliation. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but hong kong will be assimilated back into chinese society as bejing sees it.


I dont think the western world would support a revolution in HK, I certainly see why a HK'er would, and if I were watching my fellow citizens being shot down, I probably would too, though I have few illusions about how it would turn out. If I had family there, I would try and get them out.

I agree with that a revolution wouldn’t be successful.

If there is a war here, I would support the government because I want to be loyal.

Then at the end of the war, I will hopefully be rewarded.

Ah fuck it.

I hope by the end of the war you are rewarded by the the rebels the only way there is to reward a fifth column: a bullet to the head.

[Duhon]

But one day the person living on their knees will die, and that will be a coward's death.

Everyone dies. Change can only happen if you live.

remember what you said about china just a few posts back

if change will never be a thing, why struggle to bring about change? might as well drag along with you a headstone with your name and dates on it

[Ethel mermania]

Everyone dies. Change can only happen if you live.

remember what you said about china just a few posts back

That it's an insane oligarchy? Or that I can see if I lived in HK I may very well have too drifted from peaceful protest to supporting a revolution? Those 2?

[Neutraligon]

I agree with that a revolution wouldn’t be successful.

If there is a war here, I would support the government because I want to be loyal.

Then at the end of the war, I will hopefully be rewarded.

Ah fuck it.

I hope by the end of the war you are rewarded by the the rebels the only way there is to reward a fifth column: a bullet to the head.

This nets you a *** 1 day ban for wishing death ***

[Bear Stearns]

Has anyone noticed that there is a strong nationalist undercurrent to the Hong Kong protests? The Hongkongese (sp.?) genuinely do not consider themselves to be Chinese (they don't even speak the same language).

[Duhon]

Has anyone noticed that there is a strong nationalist undercurrent to the Hong Kong protests? The Hongkongese (sp.?) genuinely do not consider themselves to be Chinese (they don't even speak the same language).

the majority of hk denizens speak cantonese, as do most people living near them
it's not so much a nationalist current as it is democratic
they'd be perfectly happy with chinese rule if that rule weren't so repressive and beguiling

[Bear Stearns]

Has anyone noticed that there is a strong nationalist undercurrent to the Hong Kong protests? The Hongkongese (sp.?) genuinely do not consider themselves to be Chinese (they don't even speak the same language).

the majority of hk denizens speak cantonese, as do most people living near them
it's not so much a nationalist current as it is democratic
they'd be perfectly happy with chinese rule if that rule weren't so repressive and beguiling

Increasingly, the protests are looking a lot more anti-China rather than anti-PRC. They do not want to be part of a Chinese state, period.

[Gormwood]

the majority of hk denizens speak cantonese, as do most people living near them
it's not so much a nationalist current as it is democratic
they'd be perfectly happy with chinese rule if that rule weren't so repressive and beguiling

Increasingly, the protests are looking a lot more anti-China rather than anti-PRC. They do not want to be part of a Chinese state, period.

There hasn't been a Chinese state besides the PRC since the Dynasty Warriors days.

[Ethel mermania]

Has anyone noticed that there is a strong nationalist undercurrent to the Hong Kong protests? The Hongkongese (sp.?) genuinely do not consider themselves to be Chinese (they don't even speak the same language).

The PRC prefers mandarin

[Rojava Free State]

the majority of hk denizens speak cantonese, as do most people living near them
it's not so much a nationalist current as it is democratic
they'd be perfectly happy with chinese rule if that rule weren't so repressive and beguiling

Increasingly, the protests are looking a lot more anti-China rather than anti-PRC. They do not want to be part of a Chinese state, period.

don't see why they gotta be.